Joe K. Perez wrote:
You want my honest opinion about the rude part?

It goes like this, they are greedy for business, small minded, and don't realize that the Internet makes it real easy for Solomon Shithead to think I'm sitting right across the street from him stealing his customers.

That's why they are rude and quick to tear other people down. Small minded fucks.

If they were smart, they'd be doing like me and others...build people up so that if a customer local to them wanted/needed references then, they can point them to MM and have us vouch for them.

There's not too many photographers like me in my area (Antioch and neighboring locales) producing images like I do. And there are lots who want to get into modeling and onto sites like these with good quality and stylized images. It would be nice if I had people in this community to be able to say to people of Antioch something like, "Yeah, you can count on JKP. He's one of the best your particular area has to offer", because that is exactly what I do for photographers in other Localities who use the Internet and ask me for a shoot. I tell them, "Well, it wouldn't be practical for you to come all the way out to Antioch, California when you've got Mr. or Miss 'So-and-so' in your area who I think does an outstanding quality job. It's in your best interests to try them first and use out-of-state referrals as a last option".

See how the referral system could work to everyones' advantage? But nooooo. We've got a few assholes and dipshits on this site who have nothing better to do but be greedy and rude with their peers. They don't see the bigger picture.

Maybe, I'm just too much of an idealist and optimist to think we can help each other out that way.

Edited: Moving this piece as a response to GB.

Here here!

Joe K. Perez wrote:
You want my honest opinion about the rude part?

It goes like this, they are greedy for business, small minded, and don't realize that the Internet makes it real easy for Solomon Shithead to think I'm sitting right across the street from him stealing his customers.

That's why they are rude and quick to tear other people down. Small minded fucks.

If they were smart, they'd be doing like me and others...build people up so that if a customer local to them wanted/needed references then, they can point them to MM and have us vouch for them.

There's not too many photographers like me in my area (Antioch and neighboring locales) producing images like I do. And there are lots who want to get into modeling and onto sites like these with good quality and stylized images. It would be nice if I had people in this community to be able to say to people of Antioch something like, "Yeah, you can count on JKP. He's one of the best your particular area has to offer", because that is exactly what I do for photographers in other Localities who use the Internet and ask me for a shoot. I tell them, "Well, it wouldn't be practical for you to come all the way out to Antioch, California when you've got Mr. or Miss 'So-and-so' in your area who I think does an outstanding quality job. It's in your best interests to try them first and use out-of-state referrals as a last option".

See how the referral system could work to everyones' advantage? But nooooo. We've got a few assholes and dipshits on this site who have nothing better to do but be greedy and rude with their peers. They don't see the bigger picture.

Maybe, I'm just too much of an idealist and optimist to think we can help each other out that way.

Edited: Moving this piece as a response to GB.

Another thing Joe about dealing with peers, you know, event though you and I are within 40 min of eachother, our styles are totally different and in my book, there is plenty of room.

Zendragon wrote:
Another thing Joe about dealing with peers, you know, event though you and I are within 40 min of eachother, our styles are totally different and in my book, there is plenty of room.

I work in a market that is flooded with photographers and even share a studio with one of them that is producing likewise work. For markets sake, people that want to work with you will find you, and nothing will stop them. I talk to and meet with on a regular basis with like minded photographer in Philly and we shoot the shit, talk about models, share insider information all the time. The rivalry between photographers is really superficial.

Zendragon wrote:
...Another thing Joe about dealing with peers, you know, event though you and I are within 40 min of eachother, our styles are totally different and in my book, there is plenty of room.

That's exactly the kind of attitude and team spirit I look for in other people. Some jobs might come along that might require two, or more Photographers with/without PhotoShop and other skills. It's always good to know people well enough so that when that day comes, it's a relief to be able to say, "Zendragon, Glamour Boulevard, McMadCow, EMG, or W. Manuel will be perfect to bring in as additional muscle". And from there, you go into the logistics. Who's closer and available?

Man, I wish things could be like that. I see it as a smarter way of thinking and working. Like you said, there is plenty of room and plentier to go around.

VirtuaMike wrote:
If the image is technically weak to the point where all I see are the flaws, then that's what's gonna get my attention.

As it should.  But both points of view should be considered in the critique as opposed to being totally one-sided.  When the technical aspect is the only thing disclosed in the commentary it only works to improve one aspect.  It is far more helpful to those if they know the concept worked but the execution failed, or vice-versa.

That becomes the true value of the critique process.

Joe K. Perez wrote:
It goes like this, they are greedy for business, small minded, and don't realize that the Internet makes it real easy for Solomon Shithead to think I'm sitting right across the street from him stealing his customers.

Bingo.

William Kious wrote:
Intentionally going out of your way to piss people off makes you look like an ass (and accomplishes nothing.)

"Find better photographers."  You mean deep commentary like that?  I see that all the time (although, not by you).

Actually, that statement wouldn't be so out of line if there was some depth given as to what specifically to look for in choosing a photographer.  But when it stands alone it gives nothing more than appearance to choose those that are just like me...and that fails miserably.

area291 wrote:
"Find better photographers."  You mean deep commentary like that?  I see that all the time (although, not by you).

Actually, that statement wouldn't be so out of line if there was some depth given as to what specifically to look for in choosing a photographer.  But when it stands alone it gives nothing more than appearance to choose those that are just like me...and that fails miserably.

I get sick of seeing, "find better photographers".  I like to put myself in the shoes of the person who took the picture.  Maybe it was the best he/she could possibly do at that point in his/her career.  How do you think that person reading, "the shot sucks" (or some other pithy bullshit)?

William Kious wrote:
I get sick of seeing, "find better photographers".  I like to put myself in the shoes of the person who took the picture.  Maybe it was the best he/she could possibly do at that point in his/her career.  How do you think that person reading, "the shot sucks" (or some other pithy bullshit)?

Interesting perspective.  It's the model that's being critiqued at that point and she doesn't have control of the lighting and generally the background.  If the model looks good but her pics suck, there's not much more you can say.

OTOH, if it's the photographer posting the same image, you can tell him how to fix his lighting, or maybe just get another job.

Paul

Paul Ferrara wrote:
Interesting perspective.  It's the model that's being critiqued at that point and she doesn't have control of the lighting and generally the background.  If the model looks good but her pics suck, there's not much more you can say...

That's the heart of it...there is much more that can be said.  It becomes a critique of no value without further explanation as to why and what to look for in the future when choosing a photographer.

"Get a better photographer" is undefined.  It could mean better lighting, or it could be one that has a better sense of presentation for those with good technical expertise but are unfamiliar with the best way to present models for the area of work they seek. 

It's also like telling a small child to be careful when walking down the steps.  It is far more effective to give that conceptual directive some form of action that is understood by telling the child to hold the handrail.

"Get a better photographer" as the primary statement takes an important role of the model out of the critique process as it doesn't give any informed opinion as to whether there is a degree of success in presentation or attributes.  Those areas are far more important as the best photographer in the world can't necessarily create a model if those elements are missing.  A better photographer does not qualify whether one is a model, no matter how hard some try to put that square peg in a round hole...