Photographer
StMarc
Posts: 2959
Chicago, Illinois, US
I have actually been cutting *down* on the number of pics I give models, because I have been cutting down on the number I edit in the first place. I'm trying to be ruthless and only edit the very best ones from each set. This means the models get their pics faster. Right now I'm looking at a turnaround from shoot to contacts ready of about five days. I think that ten days is *more* than reasonable for an amateur photographer (by which I mean one who has another job, not speaking to quality) to ask for time to prepare the pics, and I've always striven to meet that time requirement.
Just for fun, last night I decided to "machine gun" a set - only very basic retouching and a levels adjustment, nothing else. (It's an erotica set, not portfolio work, so it'll never be printed or displayed big.) I did about fifty pics in just under 90 minutes. If the model hadn't had a few blemishes on her back, I could have gone even faster, but I had to zap each one with the healing brush.
M
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
male-portfolios wrote:
50?!!! Oh my! That's like 50-100 hours of work in Photoshop. The photog that agreed to that was an idiot... LMAO......you need to spend an hour plus per image post editing and you call him an idiot?
Check yourself
Photographer
JM Dean
Posts: 8931
Cary, North Carolina, US
EyeOnYouModels wrote:
Are you KIDDING!?? So, you spend more then an hour per image in PhotoShop!?
That's insane...what could you possibly be doing in PS for so long?
Maybe I'm out of the loop here but that blows my mind. Someone should start a new post and ask all the photogs how much time they spend in PS. Agreed. 10 to 15 minutes tops unless you're doing some major artistic changes.
Model
SHAWN ANTONIA
Posts: 282
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Andy Meng wrote:
Hi Chain, I'm going to kinda jump in on the tail end here with something I may have missed, but doesn't appear to have been covered.
Why 100 missing photos. On the good side, that he's honest.
1) out of focus
2) test shots
3) strobes didn't fire
4) you were blinking
5) something exposed that shouldn't have been
I try to delete them out because there's not even a chance of using them, and they don't help you with posing, etc. if you study them to learn from.
the noly thing about that is viewed ALL of them b4 i left.
but here the new thing***
i wrote him and said i'm gonna just pick 10 from the ones i have cuase time keeps going by while you are LOOKING for the rest of them.
so picked them and he says oh well i found the rest of them and i will send them in the mail, then you pick 50 from that.
WTF... i'm getting ready to say f*** it and just send me the 10 and keep the MIA pics.
Andy
Model
SHAWN ANTONIA
Posts: 282
Atlanta, Georgia, US
EyeOnYouModels wrote:
Are you KIDDING!?? So, you spend more then an hour per image in PhotoShop!?
That's insane...what could you possibly be doing in PS for so long?
Maybe I'm out of the loop here but that blows my mind. Someone should start a new post and ask all the photogs how much time they spend in PS. that would be a good thread !
Photographer
Andy Meng
Posts: 404
Tampa, Florida, US
EyeOnYouModels wrote:
Are you KIDDING!?? So, you spend more then an hour per image in PhotoShop!?
That's insane...what could you possibly be doing in PS for so long?
Maybe I'm out of the loop here but that blows my mind. Someone should start a new post and ask all the photogs how much time they spend in PS. My question too, why do you need to spend an hour per image in photoshop??????? If you compose, focus, expose correctly, you should have a minute or 2 to tweek the color to perfection, crop, and save. If I have some serious cleanup work, maybe 5-15 minutes.
Of course I don't plasticize the skin and liquify the background, I try to create real images right out of the camera. So maybe this is a question for another thread, but at 1 hour or more per image, is what you're delivering to the model a photo, or artwork? Is it something that the model can use to represent herself to prospective clients, or a fantasy that looks cool. Nothing wrong with a fantasy, but not if you're trying to get work from it.
Hmmmm, let's ponder a whole new topic.
Model
SHAWN ANTONIA
Posts: 282
Atlanta, Georgia, US
JM Dean wrote:
Agreed. 10 to 15 minutes tops unless you're doing some major artistic changes. see mark this is why i should only work with you...lol
oh by the way there are some people that want to purchase the pics you took,
email me!
Photographer
Vegas Alien
Posts: 1747
Armington, Illinois, US
Craig Thomson wrote:
LMAO......you need to spend an hour plus per image post editing and you call him an idiot?
Check yourself Yeah. I wuz gonna say something about that, too, but I thought the guy was joking.
Photographer
JM Dean
Posts: 8931
Cary, North Carolina, US
CHIAN wrote:
see mark this is why i should only work with you...lol
oh by the way there are some people that want to purchase the pics you took,
email me! Hey, I can be bought 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
Maybe a question for another thread...
I wonder how many of these 'photoshopping dependent' photographers would have images out-of-camera be good enough for presentation.
It hasn't been that long since we were presenting chromes directly to agencies and for publication.
John
Photographer
Monsante Bey
Posts: 2111
Columbus, Georgia, US
Andy Meng wrote:
My question too, why do you need to spend an hour per image in photoshop??????? If you compose, focus, expose correctly, you should have a minute or 2 to tweek the color to perfection, crop, and save. If I have some serious cleanup work, maybe 5-15 minutes.
Of course I don't plasticize the skin and liquify the background, I try to create real images right out of the camera. So maybe this is a question for another thread, but at 1 hour or more per image, is what you're delivering to the model a photo, or artwork? Is it something that the model can use to represent herself to prospective clients, or a fantasy that looks cool. Nothing wrong with a fantasy, but not if you're trying to get work from it.
Hmmmm, let's ponder a whole new topic. My point exactly. I just knew I wasn't crazy.
These damn GUYS and their digital cameras...
I thought it was supposed to make photography easier. I guess it has for getting models to pose for you, but the whole styling, composition and editing time should be a true indicator of a real photographer or a guy just taking pics.
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
John Allan wrote:
Maybe a question for another thread...
I wonder how many of these 'photoshopping dependent' photographers would have images out-of-camera be good enough for presentation.
It hasn't been that long since we were presenting chromes directly to agencies and for publication.
John If the original is digital, it needs to be sharpened. That's just the physics of the game. http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/20357.html
(And don't forget that those chromes that were presented were later scanned and sent through Photoshop.)
Photographer
johnny olsen
Posts: 366
Los Angeles, California, US
get a better agreement between the two of you. or better yet, get it in writing.
Model
SHAWN ANTONIA
Posts: 282
Atlanta, Georgia, US
johnny olsen wrote:
get a better agreement between the two of you. or better yet, get it in writing. yes an agreement would be the logical choice (obviously)
but as the story happens the agreements keep changing.
but as formw i don't have time for games so im done with him.
Photographer
Photowerk
Posts: 25
I have a rule ... I pay my models right after the shoot ( $$$$ ) ..
When I present the contact sheets, if she want pics, she pays for them ...
1) If something happens to me ( !!! ) she did get paid.
2) If I f**ked up and pics are not good, she got paid for her work.
3) If she f**ked up, she's not gona hear from me again !!!
Same for MUA ...
So all you models out there ... get the money up front when you work for the first time with a photographer. If he/she calls you back, you did the job. If not, somebody did not perform !!!! and you've got the bacon in your back pocket !!!
photowerk
P.S. Is ¨f**k up¨ against the rule ??
Model
Zoe
Posts: 1326
Palm Beach, Florida, US
Andy Meng wrote:
EyeOnYouModels wrote:
If you compose, focus, expose correctly, you should have a minute or 2 to tweek the color to perfection, crop, and save. If I have some serious cleanup work, maybe 5-15 minutes.
So maybe this is a question for another thread, but at 1 hour or more per image, is what you're delivering to the model a photo, or artwork? Is it something that the model can use to represent herself to prospective clients, or a fantasy that looks cool. Nothing wrong with a fantasy, but not if you're trying to get work from it. This is definitely a new thread topic, Andy! I have been through the 'plastic skin' photography too and it sucks! It took months to get the shots, then I could not use them to market myself to agents as I looked like a porcelain doll (way over done!)
Z
Photographer
johnny olsen
Posts: 366
Los Angeles, California, US
CHIAN wrote:
but as the story happens the agreements keep changing.
. like i said, get it in writing
Model
SHAWN ANTONIA
Posts: 282
Atlanta, Georgia, US
johnny olsen wrote:
like i said, get it in writing writing is nothing if your'e not going to follow through.
i'm not gonna make photog's put it in writing when they are going to deliver pictures.
each one is different.
i just want consistency in this particular one. but i'm not going to punish all of them for one bad seed.
Photographer
MDSPHOTO
Posts: 55
Greensboro, Georgia, US
CHIAN wrote:
How long do you make a model wait before you send the edited pics to them?
This person is not on mm, but the pictures I have (unedited) are missing over 100 hundred shots. (the photog. said he would look for them) and the agreement was i picked 50 out of 360.
Now it is pick 10.
Which is ok but that wasn't the agreement.
but I said that's fine but try to find the rest of the pictures.
I received a response saying that he would find them and that was a month ago.
the shoot was almost 2 months ago.
He stresses not to post the unedited ones.
what is the max amount amount of time a photog. should deliver the goods...lol It depends. Is the person a full-time photographer or a part-time photographer?
Does the person shoot digital or film? If film, does the person shoot slide or prints?
All of these variables play into the length of time it takes for a photographer to get images to models. As a part-time photographer who shoots slide film, it can take over a week just to get my processing back. Then I need to scan all of the slides, and do basic photoshop work on them. That being said, I always try to get the images to models within 3 weeks. In your case it sounds like 2-months is far too long to wait.
Photographer
Justin Huang
Posts: 1308
Irvine, California, US
i usually give the model one or two fully editted pictures within 1 or 2 days
Photographer
not Randell r
Posts: 32
Atlanta, Georgia, US
MMmmm you got 50 really really good photos for him to edit? That's a bunch. I'll shoot 100 to 125 and edit 10. Editing photos can be a real time consuming job. Let's say I get $50 anhour for Photoshop work thats average to below average. 10x50=$500 That's a pretty good deal in my book.
Randell
Photographer
ChristerArt
Posts: 2861
Cambridge, England, United Kingdom
Randell Blair wrote:
MMmmm you got 50 really really good photos for him to edit? That's a bunch. I'll shoot 100 to 125 and edit 10. Editing photos can be a real time consuming job. Let's say I get $50 anhour for Photoshop work thats average to below average. 10x50=$500 That's a pretty good deal in my book.
Randell Depending on how well the shoot goes and how much fun we have I may end up with 500 - 700 RAW images from a shoot - I only shoot RAW.
Those all have to be processed (tweaked, color corrected, whatever) before being processed into PSD's and Jpg's, copyright imbedded, and then saved to DVD's (multiple back ups), processed for the copyright office and THEN, Finally I can start really looking at the images. Most of this is done with actions so it's semi automatic - but still needs attention and takes a lot of time.
After flagging the ones I think are worthy of a second look - those are backed up again to another couple DVD's and THEN I select the ones I want to finish.
Every image is analyzed, basic sharpening is done, the image is adjusted selectively if needed and then saved as a Master - and at the end all the Masters are in their turn backed up three times... And when I am ready to print, I take the Master, adjusted it for size, sharpen it for the kind of paper, size and output and then that Print Master is saved and backed up as well...
Takes time - so I tell every model it'll take about 2 weeks - sometimes more if I unexpectedly get a commercial job I don't want to turn down..
Depending on the shoot - I usually finish anywhere from 20 - 150 images - again depending on the shoot (I had one shoot where we did 1,400 images in 12 hrs), print at least 4 large prints - 13 x 19 or larger and maybe 10 - 20 smaller for the model. In addition she gets a CD with all the finished images - yes - *I* select which ones to finish - for her personal use - and finally she gets a percentage of print sales.
For client work I charge $75 - 125/hr for post processing...=*^)
Photographer
D. Brian Nelson
Posts: 5477
Rapid City, South Dakota, US
Four to six weeks. Sometimes quicker, sometimes slower. I take about an hour to scan each image from the film and PS the spotting and contrast/brightness changes. Each image includes one edited max-sized tif for me to offer for sale, as well as a little web-sized image. As I do sell images, each one has to be perfect, as stock, in my experience, is an overnight delivery sort of thing.
The turn-around time has been worse this year than before because I've had an absolutely insane travel schedule. Home for the weekend though.
-Don
Edit: The model gets 10-15 images, big and little, usually. I often end up with one or two good enough to publish, but sometimes none.
Photographer
Jason Haven
Posts: 38381
Washington, District of Columbia, US
I didn't read the whole thread, but I would like to respond to the topic in general about model/photographer communication and agreements. There are a lot of a**hole photographers that will consistently change what they want and what the will give, it's unfortunate, but true. It tends to damage relationships for the rest of us. So the best bet as a model is to have written "rules" and a written "agreement" that the photographer should sign and hence you would have legal rights to whatever you agree upon. That being said, I much prefer to deal with things on a more personal level. I like to be friends with whom I'm shooting, I like to give them all the originals and whatever edited versions. I believe a good relationship with a model is key, it shows in the photos. And if anything comes up on either side of things, there is more understanding. Trust is a big factor. So yeah, I just blabbered on about nothing. Cheers
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