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Can you be a fashion photographer and not...
I'm having a problem. Maybe. As I shoot more, I see I'm once again straying from pure glamour and going more towards fashion. Commercial, of course, not the high fashion stuff ("haute couture," etc), that's really not my thing. But I like fashion because you make it sexy, you can make it a fantasy just the same (as long it sells the product), but it comes out looking elegant, something women like too (yes I tend to shoot for women, they'd be my target audience anyway if I were a pro fashion shooter). Fashion gives you more creative freedom too, you can be as outlandish as you want. Now the problem - I don't keep up with fashion trends (working on that, though), and I don't really seem to feel the same way as most people in the industry do, I have a different outlook on it - for me, a fashion photo lets me portray one of my many visions of the ideal woman. Does this work? Is this something I need to work on? I like the Maxim stuff but man, there's just so much you can do with that before you've seen it all. Fashion gives you the world to play with. Jan 20 06 10:18 am Link Do you really think there's only so much you can do before you've seen it all? I see something new every day that I've seen done before, but it still blows me off my feet. If you don't keep up with the fashion magazines and your vision is a little different, who will you sell your vision too? It seems like you're getting bored with shooting. I am too, I'm about 5 seconds away from selling all my equipment and dumping the money into one of my real estate deals.. Jan 20 06 12:49 pm Link To what purpose? That's the real question. The answer is you can do anything you set your mind, your eye, your heart on, but who's going to buy it? That's a very very very difficult question with no straight answer. Not all high-end fashion, be it streetwear or couture is the same. It's very broad, much more broad than most people realize. Some of it is pure outlandish fantasy, some is very simple and very human, and so forth. All of it is about the concept of style. Making a statement about style, what is stylish and why style is desirable is at the very heart of fashion photography. If it isn't about that, it isn't fashion photography. Commercial work done in a "fashion" style is just that. Because I'm a fashion shooter and that's the way I tend to see the world, I tend to like it better. I'd also prefer glamour content if it was shot with a fashion aesthetic, but unfortunately that's just not what most people prefer (or think they prefer, I sometimes believe) when it comes to pictures of pretty girls for the sake of pictures of pretty girls. Then again, people love the Pirelli calendar. This is a small sub-question of a much much larger question that I've been asking myself for ages, and there's no real easy answer. You have to answer to your own muse, for whatever purpose you work for (money? art? girls? social cachet? living in a world of fantasy? what?). Jan 20 06 12:55 pm Link I'm going to ammend this further by stating that there isn't one single top fashion photographer (both those I love and those I can't stand) who isn't first-and-foremost a visionary who shoots very differently than those that proceeded him. Every last one. That's not to say that every last visionary is a top photographer, nor that those who primarily immitate never do well. Hardly. But the immitators never make it to the very top echelon. If you want to be the best you have to see it your own way. And then find a way to sell THAT. And THAT is the rest of the question, and life just gets so much more complicated from there. Jan 20 06 12:59 pm Link All good answers (and questions). I've been wrestling a little bit with them for some time now. I started with wanting to shoot models (back in '97), then went on to wildlife/nature, then news, and now back to models. Since I was a teenager I wanted to shoot fashion, it's really what got me into photography in the first place. But I have been trying to find my own vision, and it's not as easy as I thought it would be - so it's not that I'm bored, I'm just not quite sure where I need to be. I decided to redo my portfolio and give it all I've got: make cold calls, mailers, interviews, the works. I haven't finished the portfolio yet, but in the recent shoots I have found that instead of doing what I thought I would - "Maxim-type" glamour, as I told myself I don't have an interest in fashion (right?) - I'm shooting more fashion-type stuff and loving it (see the Juliya shot in my port with the white blouse). It may not be Vogue but it's sure not glamour. Hence, all the questions. I suppose it's just part of the process, but I need to figure it out so I can get really, really good at it. I've gotten too distracted in the past, getting published here and there and then stopping to shoot something else. To answer some things: I can start keeping up with the mags, like, right now. I already bought Zink, will pick up a few others and maybe subscribe to some. No prob. When I say I'm not into fashion, I mean I don't care what Paris Hilton wore to the show, blah blah, but I do like the way the clothing and accessories are put together to make the shot - without that, you just have a photo of a pretty girl. Who do I want to sell to? Ultimately, to the editors and ad agencies. Would money + art be a good answer? Not too get rich, just to be able to live off it (I lead a simple existence anyway!) Now, for the sake of this post, how would you define commercial fashion? Is something shot for Bebe, Victoria's Secret, etc commercial since it's purely for advertising? Or would that be catalog photography? Maybe I just have my definitions mixed up slightly. Marko, I like your definition of fashion in general, yes, it's about style. I never thought of it directly like that, but it makes perfect sense. By the way, it's good to know I'm not the only one asking these questions. Jan 20 06 05:23 pm Link EMG STUDIOS wrote: I missed this in my last reply. You've got a good point, but I look at a LOT of photography (like most of us do), and glamour just seems really repetitive when you look at those mags. It's still nice to look at, being a guy, lol, but after a while I can almost predict what's on the next page. It can certainly be done differently, so maybe it would be better if I said that *I* could only take it so far, as I'm more inspired by fashion. Jan 20 06 05:28 pm Link For insight: --are you more a design guy or story guy? --Are you less juiced about contemporary culture than you are lighting? Quick: Absolute bottle or VS shoot on the beach? Fate's just plain twisted and God has a wicked sense of humor! We all want to do it all. My intuition may be off on this, but it sounds like you may be inclined to favor pure aesthetics--great design in jewelry and textiles and the photography that advertises them--over cultural drama and shooting mise en scene. --Jim Jan 20 06 05:52 pm Link Had to weigh in, even though all you guys make great points. Couldn't help notice that you mentioned that your book isn't quite finished yet. Bad news for you: It's never finished. That's the deal with shooting something as ever-changing and infinite in variety as fashion. It's a creative process AND a business. One of the secrets to my success commercially is that I'm happy to be a chameleon in my shooting style to please the clients, and those clients keep coming back. If I have a photographic visionary itch that needs scratching, I shoot a creative, add it to my book, and hopefully it will generate work. There are many reasons I get jazzed shooting fashion and beauty, including the nuts and bolts of running a studio. Sure beats the 9 to 5 thing. As for glamour seeming a little more generic than other styles of fashion shooting, I agree, but I guess that's why it works for celebs (how many what's-her-names have you seen on the cover of Maxim, trying to revive a flagging career?). Don't knock yourself out about keeping up with the high-fashion trends, btw, I get a weekly laugh when I hear one person tell me "matt lips are in!" when the next tells me that matt lips are so last year. Forget about it, it's way too subjective. Just hook yourself up with really talented wardrobe and hair/makeup people, and let them fuss. Here's a link that might come in handy if you don't want to spend a fortune on magazines: http://www.bwgreyscale.com/index.html Have fun, and as we say up north, "lache pas la patate" (slang for "don't drop the potato" - keep at it). Cheers, R. Jan 20 06 06:15 pm Link commart wrote: Jan 20 06 11:28 pm Link I've once heard someone say that he doesnt bother with a camera, because everything that is there to be shot has already been shot. Best to get out of that mentality. Jan 20 06 11:30 pm Link Richard Dubois wrote: You're right about the portfolio never being finished. I think if it is ever finished, then my career will be too. I should clarify that in this case I meant its revamping; I'm getting rid of all the old stuff and slowly filling it up to about 15 new images. I'm almost done replacing the old stuff, but I know I can do better than even a few of the newer pics currently in there, and have couple more ideas to shoot. (BTW, I'm referring to what's on my site, not on here.) Jan 20 06 11:41 pm Link You should learn what fashion magazines are talking about and here is why. When assembling your team, are they knowledgeable or cognicent of trends? Should they be? How else will you know? You have to study fashion and see what has gone around, and is coming around. Why shoot some stuff if the stuff you shoot is out of date. I shot some stuff today and realized that, hey, those shoes are not current anymore, and I am dating my stuff to a tme before now. So, the responsibility is on you to learn. I am not saying you need to know everything about every designer. You should know what is current, and what has happened. You can see this by looking at fashion mags regularly, and by paying attention in the street to see what people are actually wearing now. Really hard to explain, but there are tons of resources on the web. After each Fashion week for example. Pay attention to overall similarities. You will see alot of that stuf coming and going. And, here is the kicker. If you dont have access to that trendy stuff like me, from not being in a major market city and having the stylist resources, resort to making great photos, where the clothes "could be" substituted for what you can find here and there. I call it time neutral stuff. I shoot with alot of vintage stuff because it is what I can find, and you will always see it around. You have to change it up tho to be current. Pay attention to the trends in makeup and hair as well..... I am pretty curious as to what we are coming out of- the retro coats and jackets of the 50s and 60s... Tough stuff, but if you like fashion enough, you will start to get it to a degree. I look forward to the day when I can shoot a known designers stuff for the first time. Hope that helps chip Jan 20 06 11:55 pm Link Thanks, Chip. Good points. I don't like South Florida all too much, but I know it's a good market to be in when it comes to these things, so I keep sticking around. Besides reading the mags, all I gotta do to see what's up is hit South Beach for a few hours on a weekend night. I think it will take me a while to learn what's out of date and what isn't, but once I get the hang of it I should be able to keep up. I should probably splurge on a sub to a couple of the rags, along with checking out the above link. Jan 21 06 12:03 am Link bwgreyscale is dated..... keep that in mind. watch a couple us mags, and a couple european and british... Jan 21 06 12:33 am Link Chip Willis wrote: Crap! Oh well, still nice to look at. I suppose it's dated because the stuff not only already came out, it had to be scanned first, so likely it's old by the time it gets on there? Jan 21 06 12:47 am Link Forget labels. If your work is good, if it does what it's supposed to, attract attention, focus attention, or whatnot, who cares what you call yourself, or your style?? To demand a label, is to try to fit yourself into someone elses idea of who or what you and your work is/are. Be yourself, create your own label through your work. Let others apply the label. You cash the checks  Jan 21 06 12:58 am Link Bodyartist wrote: And that, friends, is the Quote of The Day Jan 21 06 11:30 am Link Everything's dated Chip, point? The industry re-cycles everything, or did you throw out your ringlight in 1979? Foto,sounds like you are feeling a creative lapse from too much of the same thing, as you surmised. Shoot 180 from what you have been doing. You'll bring your former sensibilities to the task, but it will be percieved differently. That voice inside is the one to follow. Cheers! Jan 21 06 11:36 am Link Zunaphoto wrote: True, but everythng comes back in cycles, like you said. Just look at cars. From the boxy look of the early '80s to the bubble-look of the late '90s to the retro look of now. But the retro look would not have worked all that well in the '70s, when cars that looked like the PT Cruiser, for example, where still functioning well and not terribly rare. What's dated is what's not "in" in THIS cycle, from what I understand. I'm not sure if all that makes sense... Zunaphoto wrote: That's what I'm starting to realize from this thread and my own musings... Funny, I wasn't going to post the original message as I thought it might have been a silly question. Glad I did anyway. Jan 21 06 12:03 pm Link |
