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Why do people freak out...?
I've been doing make-up for a year and a couple months. I'm certified in both Basic and Bridal make-up. I do good work and I'm dedicated to making my clients happy. I work long hours (sometimes 12 hours on a shoot and more than 1 model and more than 1 look). So recently starting charging a $50 kit fee because honestly I was running out of make-up and my kit needed to be refilled. Taking the money out of my own pocket is getting tough. But when I mention that I charge a Kit Fee for TFP/CD to photographers and models, they seem to freak out or not want to work with me. They seem to not understand that make-up is NOT $5. One foundation can be anywhere from $30 - $50. How do I make them understand that it's important for the kit fee because without makeup...I can't work! Feb 27 06 01:17 pm Link Don't refer to it as a kit fee, just only do paid tests and charge a reasonable rate of like $50. That will also make you sound more professional. I agree, you should do free tests with strong agency models to build your book. Charge everyone else. Feb 27 06 01:21 pm Link For TFP/CD shoots, when I have a MUA also doing TFP/CD, I tell the models to bring their own makup or there is a $35-$50 kit fee (depending on the MUA and work being done). Most models have no problem bringing their own. Feb 27 06 01:23 pm Link oh boy i fear responding because ill get bashed...probably by my number one fan and frequent basher Diva. you know who you are.. anyways.. the fee contradicts the whole TFCD terms. its understood everyone is working for a cd and thats all. most photographers have spent thousands on their equipment. ( yes to all you nay sayers thousands. how much do you think the camera costs? add it lights? etc???) that wasnt to you poster it was a pre-emptive counter strike to the bashers that be. anyways long story short. after having spent a lot on the equipment they may look at your fee and compare it to their costs and pass to look for someone who will not charge for tfcd. if its an issue then don't announce your services as "tfcd" and say they can hire you for $50 with a cd in return. Feb 27 06 01:24 pm Link Nothing is free. If you're building your portfolio (and if you're not, why are you testing or "doing TFCD"?) you should be expected to invest in yourself. Feb 27 06 01:25 pm Link Yisell wrote: well i think $50 is a little extream I have a $25 kit fee for tfp, and I use all of the expensive brands too, you probable only use like 3 bucks worth the foundation and thats on a couple of models. I understand the whole "my products dont grow back thing" you should do a thread search I had one going and it got quite the responce i think it was called "is a kit fee to much to ask?" I would sudgest reading it. I understand trust me we all do, but I think your asking too much. when I do TFP I charge the person who hires me the $25 bucks so if its the model who wants me she or he pays and if its the photographer who wants me they pay. Alot of people feel that tfp is just that trade for print. no money. I do think you should reconsider your amount to your fee not nessisarily the fee its self. Feb 27 06 01:26 pm Link The make-up that model's bring sucks LOL. Sometimes they bring their own and its some crap they got from Rite Aid. You're not gonna get good pictures with that. I use professional makeup so asking the model to use their make-up is not my thing. Feb 27 06 01:26 pm Link Far West Imaging wrote: models don't normally have the right makeup for a photoshoot, they usually have makeup they purchased at a department or drug store. Feb 27 06 01:26 pm Link FabioTovar wrote: HEY! whose the diva???? I hope its not me, I actually agree with you Feb 27 06 01:28 pm Link The QUALITY of the people you "test" with should determine whether or not there are fees involved...and if so, who pays what. If you, as a stylist, are trying to build your book by working with QUALITY models and PHOTOGRAPHERS, then it would be reasonable that everyone work for "free." The expense you incur would be part of your investment in yourself. Otherwise, you need to charge for your services, unless you enjoy spending money on makeup for others and spending your time/skills on results that may not benefit your book. Once you have enough GOOD samples, you should be charging. Otherwise, this isn't a "job" but a hobby. If you aren't getting enough good samples from the people you are testing with, you may want to consider working with those who can help you to get better samples...and if that is the case, don't expect to charge a "fee." Regards, Denoy P.S. "Testing" for the benefit of others but not yourself is silly. And if all that you ever do is "test" but never earn money from your work, you are a hobbyist and doing it for "fun." In that case, spending $35-50 each time to have "fun" may or may not be worth it to you. Feb 27 06 01:41 pm Link Mary wrote: Yes, if it's an agency model and she's beautiful then I don't charge. But on Friday I did this one model and she was totally NOT model material and I did gorgeous makeup on her yet, its not gonna look great cos...well I don't wanna be so bold and mean...but...you get the idea... Feb 27 06 01:43 pm Link DeBoer Photography wrote: This is definetely NOT a hobby. This is my career and what I want to do, well, forever!! I enjoy what I do and I can't see myself doing anything else. Feb 27 06 01:48 pm Link Yisell wrote: Why are you wasting your time/expenses "testing" with people on stuff that isn't going to be of benefit to you? Sounds like the "model" may benefit and so may the "photographer." What did YOU get out of it? Feb 27 06 01:48 pm Link Yisell wrote: if the model wasnt great why did you test with her? Why not just quote a price of $150.00 or $200.00 or whatever it is worth to you. Feb 27 06 01:48 pm Link This has been posted before. So I'll say the same thing I've said before. Look at it this way... Suppose you are doing a TFP fashion shoot with a makeup artist, model and photographer. Suppose the model buys a new dress for the shoot. Costs her $70. The photographer rents a lens for the shoot. Costs him $35. Why should the photographer or model be expected to pay a kit-fee to the makeup artist? The makeup artist needs to invest in her own supplies, just like the model and the photographer are. Do you see photographers charging a "lens rental fee" or models charging a "clothing purchase fee" at all? No. That would be stupid. And a "kit-fee" is equally dumb and unfair to the other people involved in the shoot. Feb 27 06 01:50 pm Link DeBoer Photography wrote: I actually didn't get to see the model b4 I worked with her. I never do that. I always see what the model looks like b4 I work with her. I understand that in the future I am not always going to see the model but I have learned a lesson. Next time I will see the model and the only way that I will do it if she's not model material is if they pay me. Feb 27 06 01:51 pm Link Yisell wrote: Unless you are trying to build a working relationship with the photographer in question, then accepting "blind" trade work offer is counter productive. Feb 27 06 02:08 pm Link Mary wrote: hahaha no.. its not you.. part of her name is Diva. but its not you hahah.... you dont follow me around and bash me every chance you get. haha. Feb 27 06 02:13 pm Link Yisell wrote: A great MUA will make shitty make-up look good... Feb 27 06 02:20 pm Link Ok so only model material girls (I really don't mind doing TFP/CD's) It just sucks when the girl isn't model material and you did something great, for nothing cause the pics arent gonna looks great and I can't use them. Thanks you guys! Feb 27 06 02:21 pm Link If you charge, it's not a TFP/Test. I have tens of thousands of dollars invested in my gear, plus a 4 figure monthly rent for my studio, but when I do TFP/Test it's just that, ie, free. Here's how I deal with it. Very few people get TFP/Test. Only those models who can contribute something either to my portfolio or to my personal work. Maybe that's elitist, but if I did it any other way, I'd be working for free 24/7/365. And I only do it when I have the time, meaning paying gigs take priority. If you're in a position where you are still building a strong portfolio, you will have to invest time and money, but there's no reason why you can't be a little bit picky. Feb 27 06 02:24 pm Link Yisell wrote: That's why you get pics of the girls that are going to be photographed. If you don't like them, say you are booked. If you don't like them but want to work with the Photog, say you will do it, but the Photog owes you a shoot with a model You want. Feb 27 06 02:26 pm Link Hamza wrote: If the makeup is crap, its gonna look like crap in pictures. Different makeup contain different ingredients. Feb 27 06 02:27 pm Link Yisell wrote: Hamza wrote: If the makeup is crap, its gonna look like crap in pictures. Different makeup contain different ingredients. By your answers I can tell that you lack much experience in this industry... LMAO Feb 27 06 02:30 pm Link Olaf S wrote: YES!! Thank you!! This is a perfect response!! Feb 27 06 02:31 pm Link Hamza wrote: MM Great I can't wait...dont under estimate my ability and my knowledge of the industry. This is my opinion and mine only. And if you knew anything about makeup you would know that some foundations contain Titanium Dioxide (such as the ones with SPF and Anti-Aging) that are no good for photography and will make your face look so damn shiny that it looks like you did no makeup at all. Good for everyday, bad for photoshoots. Feb 27 06 02:34 pm Link i look good in a potato sack. even better on a poloriod of me in a potato sack. whatchu talkin bout willis?! Feb 27 06 02:42 pm Link I tire of reading all these things. I stopped at the photographer above whom said how much eq is for photographers. Granted money is spent for everything. yet an MUA is the only one with consumable goods. the makeup/sponges/whatever gets used and is gone. I understand this and I have no problem with a kit fee when I have the money for it L()L. anyway, look at it that way. Consumable goods. I can use my camera and lights and stuff for a number of shoots. Im trading for time basicly. The model well. has to just be there and look pretty. follow direction and well nothign consumed there sept time. Models get off the easiest of everyone. This is how I look at it. Good bad or indiffernt. Feb 27 06 02:43 pm Link littlegett wrote: Wonderful!! Thank you! Yes, ofcourse I understand that the photographers invest money on lenses and camara's and lighting and all that wonderful stuff that makes photos look amazing, I'm not stupid. But us MUA's buy stuff, it runs out, we have to go out and buy more stuff and when that runs out we go out and get MORE stuff. Photographers keep their lenses. They dont use a lense and then throw it away!! We get sponges and mascara wands and all that disposible stuff to keep things sanitary. Feb 27 06 02:49 pm Link Both sides bring up good issues but, I guess TFP means TFP. Being a model and MUA...buying clothing is same as make-up. So I can understand. However, if a model asks me to do a TFP, I usually say bring your own foundation and mascara. The foundation I find is the most expensive replacement being that you usually have to get like an array of 10 shades/tones just to match up! Feb 27 06 02:58 pm Link littlegett wrote: If your photo business doesn't use consumables, I think you're probably paying too much in taxes. You should talk to your accountant. Feb 27 06 03:04 pm Link Naomi wrote: Yes but Models buy the clothes and keep 'em. Again, we buy, use, run out, and buy again...in different colors cos we dont just have 1 shade of lipstick or 1 foundation or 1 concealer etc... Feb 27 06 03:08 pm Link TFP should be TFP. I have yet to use an MUA on a shoot, although I would really like to. It's just that all the models I have worked with do their own, and a few of them were Mac certified and had all Mac makeup. As a photographer I bring allot to the table besides my just camera and lighting. I have several backdrops and props, plus I'm supplying the heating or air conditioning, plus bathroom facilities - lol! I'm always buying a new funky chair or sofa on eBay or craigslist. I also have to replace my seemless paper backdrops every so often. They don't cost all that much, only about $35 each, but I have to make a trip into NYC to get them, or pay $75 each for shipping the 10 foot rolls of paper. Feb 27 06 03:15 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: Bill Tracy wrote: Film, Processing, Background Stands, Polaroid Proofs, Batteries, Red Bull, Props, etc... Feb 27 06 03:23 pm Link Hamza wrote: Brian Diaz wrote: Film, Processing, Background Stands, Polaroid Proofs, Batteries, Red Bull, Props, etc... I just had to buy another CF card for $99 - lol!! Feb 27 06 03:28 pm Link tricky situation TFP, or TFCD should mean just that.....As for the girls that aren't model material but you make them as beautiful as possible- I would suggest taking a before picture of your own....that way when you are showing your portfolio or doing makeup for other not so beautiful women WHO WANT TO PAY YOU FOR YOUR TIME, you can show them how talented you are...and that you can bring out the beauty in all people, not just those people that are gorgeous when they wake up in the morning. Only do TFCD or TFP for true model tyes- the girls that can really help you build the kind of portfolio to further your career. That's my suggestion- but I'm not really a model or photographer, so what do I know (lol). Feb 27 06 03:28 pm Link Yisell wrote: You don't use the makeup yourself? Feb 27 06 03:30 pm Link I have only one thing to say: TFP IS TFP..PERIOD. IF YOUR WILLING TO DO A TFP SHOOT TO BUILD YOUR BOOK, THEN DO IT. DO IT BECAUSE YOU KNOW BOTH THE MODEL AND THE PHOTOGRAPHER ARE GREAT AND THAT YOU WILL GET AN OUTSTANDING PRINT. Agreed with Mary: Otherwise just charge. Feb 27 06 03:30 pm Link Bill Tracy wrote: NO!! What's in my kit stays in my kit for WORK. I have my own stuff that I use for myself (same good stuff but just my own). I dont take from my kit. I dont use as much makeup on myself as I would on a shoot. Feb 27 06 03:40 pm Link I'm so glad that I started this thread! Love the opinions and what everyone thinks! A lot of you state good points. TFP/CD = TFP/CD. But how long should I do that for? I've actually done A LOT of TFP/CD and I have some pretty awesome stuff in my book and I've only charged the kit fee once. So I dont mind doing TFP, but I can't do it forever  Feb 27 06 03:48 pm Link |
