The Art of CIP wrote:
Don't confuse satisfaction with happiness...  Happiness is the pursuit of success

Don't confuse happiness with success...  Happiness is the ability to enjoy what you're doing.  Success is accomplishing goals in the pursuit of more success.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:
I dont think true success can exist without happiness.

I disagree.  I'll give you an example

There is a woman I know personally.  She was born in Europe and moved here in her mid teens.  She raised herself through high school and college supporting herself with assorted entry level jobs while pursuing a degree in the Arts.  She graduated from a large-ish college on the east coast with a fine arts degree and entered the corporate world as a graphic designer.  She continued to improve her standings in her field by getting better and better positions.  Today she is the Creative Director for a major international company.  She is directly reportable to the CEO of a multi trillion dollar company, and brings home quite a large paycheck herself.

I don't know anyone who would say that story is not a story of success...

Yet...she is unhappy.  She looks at the things others have achieved and feels that she could still succeed more.  She feels that she still has more that she could succeed at, and I think that anyone that is truly successful would be the same...always striving for more, no matter what level they are at.

James Jackson wrote:

I disagree.  I'll give you an example

everyones definition of what success is can be different. I would not consider myself successful if I were not happy.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

everyones definition of what success is can be different. I would not consider myself successful if I were not happy.

Hrm...perhaps I should amend the original question then to one of "Would you follow the path of being success driven or happiness driven?"

James Jackson wrote:

Don't confuse happiness with success...  Happiness is the ability to enjoy what you're doing.  Success is accomplishing goals in the pursuit of more success.

I don't know James - success is happiness...  a few years ago I was having fun doing artwork and making video games just for the sake of doing it...  Then I did some film work...  Then I started making games for Electronic Arts...  Then I  started getting requests from Sony Pictures..  Now I'm going back to make video Games again...  Each gig I get the pay goes up - I am quite happy every 2 weeks when the paycheck hits my account.. I've been fortunate to draw a good paycheck doing the things in life that I like to do...  Happiness is success - and success is happiness...  Don't confuse settling for happiness - and never confuse it with success...

James Jackson wrote:

Hrm...perhaps I should amend the original question then to one of "Would you follow the path of being success driven or happiness driven?"

Again - What is your definition of success?  For some, the two are one and the same or at least go hand in hand.  Success is like a person's view of art....it is going to change based on the person you ask.

The Art of CIP wrote:
Each gig I get the pay goes up - I am quite happy every 2 weeks when the paycheck hits my account.. I've been fortunate to draw a good paycheck doing the things in life that I like to do...  Happiness is success - and success is happiness...

Hrm...The question I would have for you then would be; If your career continues to grow, one day you will have to work more than you want to...even though it's something you like doing, at some point every career reaches a point at which you are doing it more than ever before.  If it got to the point that you had to choose to work 80 hours and gain more success in your career, or cut back to only 40 hours a week and stagnate in your career, but remain happy with it... Which would you do?

Mary wrote:
happiness is an emotion that comes and goes, sometimes I'm happy sometimes I'm sad, mad, mourning, giddy, they're all just emotions.


Inner peace is the ideal life situation and you can have that whether you're happy or sad...that content sense of peace that some have no matter what the life situation is.. For me this is preferred over happiness, riches, success.

Well said Mary.

James Jackson wrote:

Yet...she is unhappy.  She looks at the things others have achieved and feels that she could still succeed more.  She feels that she still has more that she could succeed at, and I think that anyone that is truly successful would be the same...always striving for more, no matter what level they are at.

damn i think i know how she feels....you see what you have done and seen what you have become but yet still compare yourself to others and what they have achieved and ...you cant really do that..everyone has different situations....but yet some still struggle with accepting how good they are and how far they have came from nada....

Brandon Smith wrote:

Again - What is your definition of success?  For some, the two are one and the same or at least go hand in hand.  Success is like a person's view of art....it is going to change based on the person you ask.

I think if you investigate the truth of either art or success you will find that there *is* one true definition.

In the case of success, think about it like this Brandon; are you truly successful if there's more that you could achieve, if there's something that you could do better, if there's something more you could have?  (no)  Can you ever achieve everything (and I truly mean everything...can you ever become the ultimate success)? (no)  So if you're trying to be successful, and success is your ultimate goal then is it ever attainable? (no)  If you don't attain your ultimate goal are you happy? (no)

CristinaLex wrote:

damn i think i know how she feels....you see what you have done and seen what you have become but yet still compare yourself to others and what they have achieved and ...you cant really do that..everyone has different situations....but yet some still struggle with accepting how good they are and how far they have came from nada....

I'd see it less of being success driven but having some sort of deficiency mentally.  Similar to the girl who feels (even though she's a size 0) that she could stand to lose a few more pounds.... There gets to be a point where drive is replaced by obsession.

James Jackson wrote:

Hrm...The question I would have for you then would be; If your career continues to grow, one day you will have to work more than you want to...even though it's something you like doing, at some point every career reaches a point at which you are doing it more than ever before.  If it got to the point that you had to choose to work 80 hours and gain more success in your career, or cut back to only 40 hours a week and stagnate in your career, but remain happy with it... Which would you do?

You raise a good point...  I'm at the point now where I have the luxury of picking and choosing the jobs I wish to take...  I am basically a one man business and I invest my $$$ as well...  As far as the 80 hours a week - anybody that works in film or game production has to do this...  the closer a project comes to completion the more you have to "crunch"...  My typical work day will involve 8 - 10 hours at the studio and when I get home I spend another couple of hours doing "my" art...  When the project is over and we ship I get on plane and go somewhere where everybody's happy to see you...  For some people 40 hours a week is cool - but I am a "dyed in the wool" workaholic - if I could find a safe way to work 18 hours a day I would!! HA ha... Every director I've ever known has worked no less than 70 - 80 hours a week during production (at least the successful ones)...

Mary wrote:
happiness is an emotion that comes and goes, sometimes I'm happy sometimes I'm sad, mad, mourning, giddy, they're all just emotions.


Inner peace is the ideal life situation and you can have that whether you're happy or sad...that content sense of peace that some have no matter what the life situation is.. For me this is preferred over happiness, riches, success.

Mary ...this touched my heart...you nailed it on the head in my opinion...some people might have not found inner peace within themselves......thats is first and foremost...

Mary wrote:
happiness is an emotion that comes and goes, sometimes I'm happy sometimes I'm sad, mad, mourning, giddy, they're all just emotions.


Inner peace is the ideal life situation and you can have that whether you're happy or sad...that content sense of peace that some have no matter what the life situation is.. For me this is preferred over happiness, riches, success.

I suppose by happiness I mean that inner peace you talk about.

and I agree I'd prefer peace to success.

I'm just wondering if there is anyone else other than this woman I know who would choose success over peace.

Brandon Smith wrote:

I'd see it less of being success driven but having some sort of deficiency mentally.  Similar to the girl who feels (even though she's a size 0) that she could stand to lose a few more pounds.... There gets to be a point where drive is replaced by obsession.

yes this is true too....some want to be come soo successful that some things take risks in the process....like mary said...inner peace...

James Jackson wrote:

I think if you investigate the truth of either art or success you will find that there *is* one true definition.

In the case of success, think about it like this Brandon; are you truly successful if there's more that you could achieve, if there's something that you could do better, if there's something more you could have?  (no)  Can you ever achieve everything (and I truly mean everything...can you ever become the ultimate success)? (no)  So if you're trying to be successful, and success is your ultimate goal then is it ever attainable? (no)  If you don't attain your ultimate goal are you happy? (no)

But where I say you're wrong is that you've now used your definition of success to define my own drive.  I don't look at success as the drive to attain things.  It isn't my nature, nor is it how I feel.  I'm not the person who has determined that to be successful I need to have more, do more, etc.  I'm 24, but I feel that I'm successful simply because of the things I presented in a previous post.  Sure I could do more in my career to make my life better, I could make more money, gain more clients.  With that, I have a drive to better improve upon my life.  However, there is no end to success.  But for me....I'm content in my life...ergo I've attained my idea of success and alas, I'm happy.

As for art..... I think you can ask anyone on MM what their idea of art is and you will receive a different answer for each person you ask.  There are no definitives.

James Jackson wrote:

I suppose by happiness I mean that inner peace you talk about.

and I agree I'd prefer peace to success.

I'm just wondering if there is anyone else other than this woman I know who would choose success over peace.

look at Hollywood for your answer

Brandon Smith wrote:

I'd see it less of being success driven but having some sort of deficiency mentally.  Similar to the girl who feels (even though she's a size 0) that she could stand to lose a few more pounds.... There gets to be a point where drive is replaced by obsession.

Which is a very valid point.  It may be an obsession with success, but none the less, I'd see anyone who is obsessed with something to be the truest version of that thing...someone who's obsessed with art is truly driven by art...someone obsessed with success is truly driven by success...someone obsessed with being skinny is truly driven by being skinny.

Is obsession a bad thing?

Mary wrote:

look at Hollywood for your answer

Look at corporate America and the number of burnt out working stiffs exist in the upper crusts of society.

James Jackson wrote:
Is obsession a bad thing?

Nope...

Brandon Smith wrote:

Look at corporate America and the number of burnt out working stiffs exist in the upper crusts of society.

Hey!  Some of us burnt out working stiffs are in the lower crusts of society!

James Jackson wrote:

Which is a very valid point.  It may be an obsession with success, but none the less, I'd see anyone who is obsessed with something to be the truest version of that thing...someone who's obsessed with art is truly driven by art...someone obsessed with success is truly driven by success...someone obsessed with being skinny is truly driven by being skinny.

Is obsession a bad thing?

Well hmmmm.... Yes.  When obessession incapacitates every other function or mental aspect of your life...yes, obsession is a bad thing.  Is stalking a bad thing?  Bulemia?  Monetary extortion?  All forms of obsession......

William Coleman wrote:

Hey!  Some of us burnt out working stiffs are in the lower crusts of society!

True dat!

Nemi wrote:
Successful. No two ways about it.

Leave it to the potheads to pick success over happiness :-) Love the photo by the way...took me forever to figure out the pothead remarks.... turns out I'm blonde!  HAHA

Brandon Smith wrote:
But where I say you're wrong is that you've now used your definition of success to define my own drive.  I don't look at success as the drive to attain things.  It isn't my nature, nor is it how I feel.  I'm not the person who has determined that to be successful I need to have more, do more, etc.  I'm 24, but I feel that I'm successful simply because of the things I presented in a previous post.  Sure I could do more in my career to make my life better, I could make more money, gain more clients.  With that, I have a drive to better improve upon my life.  However, there is no end to success.  But for me....I'm content in my life...ergo I've attained my idea of success and alas, I'm happy.

Ok, damn english for being a non-exact language.

From: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, I am speaking of the definition 2. a) "The gaining of fame or prosperity"

NOT definition 1) the achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted

Brandon Smith wrote:
As for art..... I think you can ask anyone on MM what their idea of art is and you will receive a different answer for each person you ask.  There are no definitives.

Yes you can ask anyone on MM what their idea of art is, but there ARE right and wrong answers to the question.

I personally developed my definition of art after a long drawn out process, and I've posted it before, but that's not the discussion here.  I will say that any definition of art that doesn't include all types of art, including both good and bad art, is wrong...and that is just a fact.

By the way, I'm really enjoying the conversation here...it's much better than the argument I had with the afore mentioned success driven woman for the last two hours.

James Jackson wrote:

Brandon Smith wrote:
But where I say you're wrong is that you've now used your definition of success to define my own drive.  I don't look at success as the drive to attain things.  It isn't my nature, nor is it how I feel.  I'm not the person who has determined that to be successful I need to have more, do more, etc.  I'm 24, but I feel that I'm successful simply because of the things I presented in a previous post.  Sure I could do more in my career to make my life better, I could make more money, gain more clients.  With that, I have a drive to better improve upon my life.  However, there is no end to success.  But for me....I'm content in my life...ergo I've attained my idea of success and alas, I'm happy.

Ok, damn english for being a non-exact language.

From: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, I am speaking of the definition 2. a) "The gaining of fame or prosperity"

NOT definition 1) the achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted



Yes you can ask anyone on MM what their idea of art is, but there ARE right and wrong answers to the question.

I personally developed my definition of art after a long drawn out process, and I've posted it before, but that's not the discussion here.  I will say that any definition of art that doesn't include all types of art, including both good and bad art, is wrong...and that is just a fact.

Ask a non definitive question and receive a myriad of answers.  Success is subjective (as is art...but we'll leave that to other threads that have presented that very question). 

Even the American Heritage has two definitions of success....so shoot us :-)

By the way.... good topic!

Nemi wrote:
Successful. No two ways about it.

OK,  why?

(sorry, I'd just like a little exposition so that I can try to understand the position)

Brandon Smith wrote:
Ask a non definitive question and receive a myriad of answers.  Success is subjective (as is art...but we'll leave that to other threads that have presented that very question). 

Even the American Heritage has two definitions of success....so shoot us :-)

By the way.... good topic!

I tried to be definitive, but it's so hard.  We need a more definitive language....but I don't know any others.

James Jackson wrote:
Yes you can ask anyone on MM what their idea of art is, but there ARE right and wrong answers to the question.

Okay - I'm gonna open the can of worms!!!  What are the right and wrong answers to the question?   You're a brave man man James...  In all my years on this earth I avoid defining art like the plague... BTW - this a great thread - it's given me something to do while I'm sitting here at my work desk working away!!

James Jackson wrote:



I tried to be definitive, but it's so hard.  We need a more definitive language....but I don't know any others.

Maybe when the first edition of the Oxford English Dictionary came out did we have a definitive language but for now we'll have to rely on a life based on relativity and subjectivity :-)

The Art of CIP wrote:

Okay - I'm gonna open the can of worms!!!  What are the right and wrong answers to the question?   You're a brave man man James...  In all my years on this earth I avoid defining art like the plague... BTW - this a great thread - it's given me something to do while I'm sitting here at my work desk working away!!

Working?  You success driven maniac! 

I'm avoiding that definition myself as I don't think I could come up with a good answer :-)