Lydia Martin wrote:
Hey all. I am constantly finding myself against the wall because for some reason, I get really uncomfortable when it comes to discussing pay. I am at a point where I am exhausted and tired of being taken advantage of. Why, are MUA's sometimes treated as though we are not an important thread in making a photo beautiful??!! Why do designers expect for us to do make up for their look books with no comp.. They carefully choose perfect models and a great photographer to represent them and treat the MUA like an intern. They love the work, need you there, want you there, but don't want to offer ANY compensation. Why do other professionals that we have once tested with (no comp) approach us with future work, but offer pay that is just an insult? And why (here's the reason for thios topic) do i feel uncomfortable discussing $$. I need suggestions to aid in getting me over this hump.

well things like those is the only reason I quit all of the jobs I normally would like to do.
you gotta stand very strong else they give you 1 and sell your work for 100.

but there is a very good reason they do so. there are thousands more out there who were never been there would like to be abused.

so they dont care. really. put a spy mic on them and you'll be surprised.

the only thing that may encourage you is the people who made it.

you can make it too.

Lydia Martin wrote:
So, frustrating... Thanks.

life is a lttle frustrating yes. nobody holds your hand when acrossing a street...its YOU who will look left and right and then left before you even move.

if you think that is frustrating you lost in the first place.

Lydia Martin wrote:
So, frustrating... Thanks.

Let your frustration push you to be firm about your financial stance.

You are a buisness,
you have a right to discuss monetary compensation.
If they cringe at that, then its them that are not professional.

Lydia Martin wrote:
I get really uncomfortable when it comes to discussing pay. . . . They love the work, need you there, want you there, but don't want to offer ANY compensation.

In any business, you're never treated like a professional unless you act like a professional.  It is up to you as a businessperson to politely but firmly say how much your services cost.

Lydia Martin wrote:
And why (here's the reason for thios topic) do i feel uncomfortable discussing $$.

Only you can really know the answer to that question, but I'd guess that either you don't know the business side of your work yet, or you don't feel that your skills are at a professional level.  Both of those possibilities can be delt with through experience. 

Here's my suggestion:  Survey a few competitors and pick a pay rate that is average for your area.  Post that as your desired rate, then offer a "Grand Opening Special," charging half that rate.  Or call it a "Limited Time Offer," or whatever.  Send it out to all the people you've done work for in the past, free work or not, and to anyone else who may hire you. 

After you've charged a few people that amount you will become comfortable with doing what you do for money.  As your calendar fills up, raise your rate, offering a 1/3 off discount to repeat customers but asking the full rate from new customers.

phcorcoran wrote:

In any business, you're never treated like a professional unless you act like a professional.  It is up to you as a businessperson to politely but firmly say how much your services cost.


Only you can really know the answer to that question, but I'd guess that either you don't know the business side of your work yet, or you don't feel that your skills are at a professional level.  Both of those possibilities can be delt with through experience. 

Here's my suggestion:  Survey a few competitors and pick a pay rate that is average for your area.  Post that as your desired rate, then offer a "Grand Opening Special," charging half that rate.  Or call it a "Limited Time Offer," or whatever.  Send it out to all the people you've done work for in the past, free work or not, and to anyone else who may hire you. 

After you've charged a few people that amount you will become comfortable with doing what you do for money.  As your calendar fills up, raise your rate, offering a 1/3 off discount to repeat customers but asking the full rate from new customers.

Okay, that sounds good. I think that will be a good move for me. Thank you so much.

rachelrose wrote:
it is important to stand firm. people will take advantage of you, all the time. i have not taken jobs because of $25 differences, basically if i quote you at a low rate because you are a new company/designer, dont try to get it any lower, its just not going to happen.

You're right!

Lydia Martin wrote:
Why do other professionals that we have once tested with (no comp) approach us with future work, but offer pay that is just an insult? And why (here's the reason for thios topic) do i feel uncomfortable discussing $$. I need suggestions to aid in getting me over this hump.

you just answered your own question.  Never expect people that you have worked for free to EVER pay you or get you a paying job....that rarely happens.  You set the tone with them from the beginning "Im free"

It is a big mistake to ever offer something free and then assume you will paid for it by the same source....These people really dont have money and they probably dont have clients and if they ever do get a paying client I can pretty much guarantee they will go the expensive artists because they are viewed as more qualified for the good paying jobs.  There are many photographers I work with that test with everyone around and call me for the paid work. I said to one  photographer recently..."I'm booked, why dont you call so and so artist you have been testing with?"  his reply "I would never use someone that green with a real client!"   so there ya go.  She is good I think but she is percieved as non professional because she doesnt charge like a professional.   Would you allow a discount surgeon to operate on your heart?  no, but you might go to him when you need a simple cold medication...See where I am coming from?