|
Forums >
Hair, Makeup & Styling >
this industry can be very cruel!
I want to know if something like this had ever happened to someone else or if it happens often. I did a magazine shoot. I saw all of the images that were going to be used for the mag. It's now a few weeks later and I notice that the wrong phtographer was given credit for the images. Everything about the shoot is the same except for the photographer, and the model's poses are different from the sample images I saw. The makeup, hair, wardrobe, location were all exactly the same. I assumed that the wrong photographer was given credit for the work. So I called the art director to ask him what happened. He said that the shoot was redone with a famous photographer. I asked why I wasn't informed of it and he said that the model wanted the makeup and hair to be the same but the photographer wanted to use his own makeup artist. The makeup is so exact from my shoot that I did not even know that it wasn't my work. If I could show you two photos from both shoots you could not even see the difference. Now someone else will get credit for what practically was my work. Do things like this happen often and how do you handle it when it does happen? It's really killing my spirit so I just want to know if this happens often so I can be prepared for it in the future. Thanks Much, Melissa Mar 23 06 01:51 pm Link Were you paid in any way, either cash or prints? Mar 23 06 01:53 pm Link If you got paid for your time, what does it matter? The right photographer WAS credited. If someone wants to recreate a shoot, that's their perogative. Just my $.02 Mar 23 06 01:54 pm Link MEWanoDesigns wrote: exactly, if you were paid,move on.You cant treat every shoot like it was your first born. Mar 23 06 01:55 pm Link horrifying. can you tell us the name of the magazine? Mar 23 06 01:55 pm Link I know that it's always best to not name names. I also wasn't paid because I was working for tears. But if they do not use any of the images I worked on I do not get any tears. I also called in sick to work that day because I thought it would be a great opportunity. And they did give the right photographer the credit. At first I thought that they gave the wrong photographer the credit because the images were so similar. Mar 23 06 02:13 pm Link So let me get this right... you worked for a magazine (probably pretty popular, since you won't name names), took a day off for your regular job, and ALL you asked for was tear sheets? Mar 23 06 02:19 pm Link I'm sorry but ,the photographers are being way too passive about this. How would you feel if it were you? This is really FUCKED up. I'd be livid but, I guess that's part of this business. So sorry it happend but, don't get discouraged. Maybe you can get copies of the pics from original photog at least to have for your book. Look at it as a good TFP :-/ Mar 23 06 02:20 pm Link Yeah. I know it was silly but I haven't been in the industry that long and I thought that those tears would be a great addition to my book. I must say that it was a big mistake but I guess I just have to learn from my mistakes and move on. I'm just curious on whether or not it happens often. Mar 23 06 02:24 pm Link MEWanoDesigns wrote: What's wrong with this? We all need to start somewhere! Mar 23 06 02:26 pm Link Naomi Jay wrote: Yes, but, like she said, it was pretty silly of her to not only lose a day's wage, but donate her time to something that wasn't even a guarentee. Mar 23 06 02:33 pm Link umm chalk that one up to " things I wont ever do again." if it was a "big" name mag they should have paid you, you get teres no matter if your paied or not. you just have to buy the magizine. I would keep your original images and put them into your book, and you could keep the tear from the other artist and say that you designed the look and another artist exicuted it. its not a lie and might make you look special in someones eyes.  just my opion....Mandy of Deadly Design Make-up Artistry. Mar 23 06 02:34 pm Link I dont know why people say "you got paid, you got paid move on" sometimes it is not always about being paid..someone had did something to create and image something that was gonna be seen by all and also be known that it was her work... this is messed up that this has happened...I know some of the photographers in here would be posting the same thing if it was thier work that someone else got credit for after all they went through paid or not...soo stop the bullshyt..."you got paid right, move on" please Mar 23 06 02:36 pm Link Exactly. It would hurt whether or not I got paid because I worked so hard on it. Mar 23 06 02:48 pm Link Deadly Design Make-up wrote: great idea!!! :-) Mar 23 06 03:11 pm Link Many people have told me that I am too sweet and kind-hearted for this industry and I'm starting to believe them, lol. I have to learn to separate my emotions from business. I've been told that the way to be a good business person is to do the exact opposite of what I do. I always assume the best in everyone and they said that when it comes to business you should always assume the worst in everyone. Business is business and I guess they were able to use me like that because I allowed them to. It'll never happen again. I definitely learned a huge life lesson from that experience. Thanks everyone for your input! Melissa Mar 23 06 03:28 pm Link not "cruel", just "amoral". And it's not just this industry, it's spreading to every industry. Decisions just aren't made on a "do the right thing" basis. The big trick is to not take it personally (because, of course, it isn't - the decision makers may not give half a shit about you, but they can't be bothered to feel any malice towards you either). I've gone back and forth many times on whether I'm tough enough to try to make a living doing what I love, be it music or visual arts. 20 years, and I'm still not sure. Some stuff you can't avoid. Some stuff is valuable schooling. "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience come from bad judgement." Mar 23 06 03:50 pm Link Melissa Rachelle wrote: in this case, it is ok. it's akin to revealing a scam, similar to all the scam "agency" threads, not disparaging an individual. if you don't want to post it publicly, please send it to me personally. Mar 23 06 05:46 pm Link Deadly Design Make-up wrote: I think there's a bit of confusion here on MM. The bigger named magazines, the less the pay rate (at least for make-up/hair). I have a friend who does a lot of work for Italian Vogue. His day rate is $1000 (and he works for that rate a ton) But you know what he gets paid when he does Italian Vogue? Nada. He does it because they are great tears that get him the big adverts that pay the big bucks. Mar 23 06 06:56 pm Link many local magazines do not pay. Big nationals usually pay but the pay sucks. Editorial pay is low and so I do it when I will get good tears, if not I will usually pass. How does the photographer you worked with feel about this? he also worked for free I assume or for very litte. I disagree that you should put the shots in your book, explaining why they are there is going to be very difficult and if the other artist finds out, your done. Editorials are never a sure thing. I have shot many that were reshoots due to bad model, bad photography, whatever. Thats a risk you take when you are working for free, getting paid something at least feels a little better. I did a big People shoot years ago that got trashed because the olympian didnt win as expected. A lot of editorial is shot "just in case" I was paid so thats fine but wouldnt have spent my day on this if I had known the shots would never go to print. Probably 25% of editorial stuff I do never sees the light of day. Usually when a photographer takes a job like an editorial they will only use their own team if it's local, I dont blame the photographer, not knowing how the artist is going to perform can be scarey for a photographer. Breaking up a photographer/artist relationship can be harder then breaking up a marriage...these ties are very strong Mar 23 06 09:01 pm Link I do not blame the other photographer. I think that it's great that he keeps his team together. It still hurts regardless of the reason the shoot was redone. I do not even know if the photographer I worked with knows because I just found out yesterday. But I do know that he thought he was going to get the cover and a spread inside the magazine. So I don't know if they told him yet or if he'll only find out when the issue is released. I do not want to let him know because I do not want to start a huge problem. I feel sadder for the photographer than I do for myself because he has been working hard to make it for years and years. His images were great. The only difference between his images and the well-known photog are some of the model's poses. So when he finds out I'm pretty sure that it will hurt that he can work as hard as he can and someone else can take that away from him by just throwing their name around. But things happen and you have to pick up and try even harder the next time. Everyone knows that when you're new no matter how good you are you have to work your butt off to make a dime. And nearly kill yourself through lack of sleep and food to make a dollar. But I guess that's life all together. People tend to take my kindness for weakness and my age for naivete but I guess I allow them to. Not anymore. Someone called me yesterday to work a tv pilot for $100/day. That's all day and that's hair and makeup. An 18 hour day for $100 are you kidding me. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's less than minimum wage. I am totally starting to catch on. I was very silly to state in my online portfolio that I've been a working MUA for about six months. So they try to take advantage of me. NO MORE. Thanks again everyone for your professional advice! Mar 24 06 09:00 am Link MEWanoDesigns wrote: I really think that comment is out of place. From looking at your portfolio it doesn't seem you would understand what a tearsheet means to an artist like her .She came to ask for advices and not to be drilled by photographers in the stylist chat . Mar 25 06 09:32 pm Link At my ad agency, reshoots were done all the time, par for the course. Usually there was a very good reason to reshoot and change artists, photographers, staff, etc. Most often it was because something didn't test well during the test market stage. Sometimes it was the client wanting something different from what the art director specced...usually last minute, deadline crunching idiocy. Very, very weird though that to reshoot was done to look exactly the same as the original. That I would say is very unusual. You didn;t mention the publication or company. Most times, the name of a photographer, even a famous one, does very little for promotional purposes unless it is an industry publication. As an MUA you can copyright your original work. A little more difficult to enforce copying, especially if there is nothing unique about your style. I do find it very, very and intriguingly weird that a top line magazine would pick up and emulate exactly the style of a previous photoshoot...unless they bought all rights to the prior shoot. Doing it just for tear sheets...that's a blow. I have never been a fan of TFP/TFCD. I always feel the models and MUAs get the short end of the deal. Your rights are too limited compared the the phtographer's/client's rights. I really do not know what to telll you to do to rectify the situation. Too little information presented. I still suspect, on the face of it, that your contractual terms were not fullfilled and that you may be able to send them a bill for your time. If you'd like, MM-mail me some details and I'll pass it by my lawyer friends at the ad agency I used to work for. Something sure smells fishy. Mar 25 06 10:08 pm Link Olivier wrote: I have to agree with Olivier here. Tearsheets are VERY VERY important in this business. Good tearsheets in your portfolio make you worth more money from that moment on. Doing a test for free is a huge step down from doing a free editorial. With the editorial you get a published tear (with your name on it) with a test you get just pretty pictures if youre lucky. I figure one good tear is worth about 10 great test shots. Even though I do not test anymore I will never turn down a great fashion editorial with a great team, even if I am paid zero. Mar 25 06 10:19 pm Link Not cruel, it's the business... If you were working for a Magazine, you should have been paid, I bet the MUA from the Photog got paid... It's ok to work for free for TFP, but when it's for a Magazine? They have money! I'm sure the Photog got paid... I've had many shoots where I was paid, get re-done by another Photog. So? I got paid I am happy. It's the client's perogative to re-shoot for whatever reason they want, it's my responsibility to get paid and not do it for 'tears'. Mar 25 06 10:21 pm Link Hamza wrote: not so. Many good magazines do not pay for editorials. Most of the big ones do (but not all) and so little that nobody would do it for the money. Photographers don't get rich on editorials thats for sure. With an editorial however you get a full team, stylist and all, with a test you just dont get the full team usually. Usually with editorial you get access good agency models....most tests are not with great agency models, tests are often with 2nd tier models. Just a few reasons that editorials are much better for an artist then testing. Mar 25 06 10:59 pm Link |
