nexiste plus wrote:

sorry...im on muscle relaxers, so my head isnt with me atm

ETA: not recreationally, btw

I was just picking on you a little, sorry your not feeling well.

rfordphotos wrote:
Sadly, the ones like this, that are even quasi-public are probably only the tip of the iceberg.

I agree that the FBI probably knows of this one... its the ones they dont know about that REALLY bother me.

You hear/read stories of the horrible exploitation of children in the third-world countries, the worst parts of the old eastern soviet block etc etc... not to mention what probably goes on right here in the good old USA.

All you can do is shine a light into these dark corners when you find them, and hope the cockroaches that run them will scuttle off to their dens.

Please be careful.  If you go searching for the worst ... you very well may find it and regret it!  I have heard of people who may genuinely want to help the authorities find the illegal stuff, but then they are careless.  If you go on these sites, your IP address will be logged in the server records and you could very well end up as a "criminal" just for finding such nasty stuff.  It's not something you want to have to explain!

If you should stumble upon such a site, back out of it quickly!  What you are seeing now from this thread maybe the legal stuff ... but trust me on this ... you don't want to find yourself on any of the illegal sites!  Leave that for the real authorities!

CGI Images wrote:

BULL! Many professional photographers make their living photographing minors, its on of the largest segments of retail photography.  As a matter of fact I dont know many "professional" photographers that would refuse photographing a minor simply based on age.

You are right!  There is a HUGE market for those child beauty pageants.  I do not choose to participate in photographing such events, but I have photographed dance recitals and some of the costumes the kids wear leave me wondering about the parents BUT I would NEVER post those images online, and I do not sell those images to anyone except for the parents.

There are different other avenues of retail sales of images of teenagers and children.  Just think about the catalogs for the clothing industry, and also the portrait industry.

CGI Images wrote:
Legal doesn't automatically make something good no more than illegal makes it bad.  Like it's been pointed out 99% of those sites are perfectly legal.

I think you handled it right Tim, my guess though is the girl probably searched for "teen model" and came accross some of those sites and perhaps wanted images to submit, or one of the sites offering her "modeling" opportunities told her to get some.

Just like the threads where a photographer asks the model to masterbate, if you don't feel comfortable with a request, a simple "no thanks" handles most issues.

I agree completely with you.  The possibility of miscommunication is more than a possibility.  The girl may not intend to send that link for anything more than to show how she wants to pose or dress.  More communication is necessary to know the answer to that question.

Tim Little Photography wrote:
First let me say that non of this came through Model Mayhem. This was direct contact from my business website.

A few days ago I get an email from my contact page at my website. The person asked me if I shoot TFCD. I replied back that I do on occasion and asked if she had a website or online port where I could see some of her work. I also asked for her age, height, style she wants and so forth.

Today I get a reply back with four pictures attached, nothing out of line and a link to a website. The girl who contacted me is 15. The site has about 10 "models" from very young like 8 or 9 up to the teens. The images are mild glamour. No swimsuits or revealing clothes but it still didn't feel right. I clicked on the links page and there were banner ads for hundreds of child model sites I never new existed. These were little kids in skimpy outfits and come do me expressions. It was gross. This is the email I sent back to her:

Hi xxxxxx,

I wanted to get back to you as soon as I could. After replying to your last email I did the free sign up for the ***** website. I wasn't aware that you are 15-years-old. I will not shoot content for the ****** website or any other site that may be affiliated with it in any way. In addition I will only photograph a minor child if at least one parent attends the shoot at all times and all wardrobe and poses are age appropriate.

I took some time to look through most of the model pictures and I also checked out the links page that has banners to other related websites. I want to be as clear on this matter as possible. I am not available to shoot pictures for you. Please have one of your parents contact me if there are any questions.

Sincerely,
Tim Little


I would like other professional's opinions on how I handled this. I feel sick and dirty that I was even contacted. What would you do in this situation?


Edited to remove the website name.

And whats more screwed up, is there are stage moms urging them on

Monad Studios wrote:
Unfortunately the sexualizing of children in our society is not confined to shadowy web sites.  Beauty pageants for 5-year-olds and grade-school cheerleaders in high-cut, spangly leotards are not so far removed from this.

ETA: If indeed nothing criminal is being done, then responsibility for all of this falls squarely on the parents.

The EXPLOITATION of children has been going on since ... much too long!

In recent "entertainment" history, we have examples of it with the Jackson Five, Judy Garland, Natalie Wood, Frank Sinatra, Brooke Shields, Drew Barrymore ... and it still goes on today but at a leaser obvious level.  There have been laws put into effect to help protect minors who are working as models, musicians, actors, and so on, but quite often it is the money that drives the parents decisions regarding their children.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Please be careful.  If you go searching for the worst ... you very well may find it and regret it!  I have heard of people who may genuinely want to help the authorities find the illegal stuff, but then they are careless.  If you go on these sites, your IP address will be logged in the server records and you could very well end up as a "criminal" just for finding such nasty stuff.  It's not something you want to have to explain!

If you should stumble upon such a site, back out of it quickly!  What you are seeing now from this thread maybe the legal stuff ... but trust me on this ... you don't want to find yourself on any of the illegal sites!  Leave that for the real authorities!

Certainly good advice.

I would simply find it too demoralizing, too depressing, too heartbreaking to actually actively go on a search for sites like this. I will leave that to the proper authorities, for all the above reasons and more. I cannot imagine how the folks who are forced to look for this stuff for Law Enforcement purposes "cleanse" their minds when they go home at night.

The internet has it's own special hell, its own cesspool where these sites live. Everything bad you have ever heard of is rampant there, computer virus infections, trojans, malware that can cause untold trouble. Phishing, outright ID theft.

You can only hope that karma DOES catch up to these "people". Preferably painfully.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

The EXPLOITATION of children has been going on since ... much too long!

In recent "entertainment" history, we have examples of it with the Jackson Five, Judy Garland, Natalie Wood, Frank Sinatra, Brooke Shields, Drew Barrymore ... and it still goes on today but at a leaser obvious level.  There have been laws put into effect to help protect minors who are working as models, musicians, actors, and so on, but quite often it is the money that drives the parents decisions regarding their children.

I would say its as obvious today as it has ever been.  Hannah Montanna and Jonas Brothers are every where, and 10 years ago it was Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears.

Cherish the Moment wrote:
I would say its as obvious today as it has ever been.  Hannah Montanna and Jonas Brothers are every where, and 10 years ago it was Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears.

While I can't deny that there is some level of exploitation going on, I would hope that it is not nearly at the level of the "Golden age of movies" MGM days when child stars like Judy Garland, Elizabeth Taylor, Mickey Rooney, and Shirley Temple ... when they would over work the kids, feed them drugs, and as they got older, sexually exploit them too.   But then Natalie Wood told of being pimped out to movie executives when she was 15 years old by her own mother so that she'd get better parts.  Drew Barrymore tells of hanging out with adults and doing drugs when she was a young teenager. 

So if parents are willing to put their daughters to work taking pictures for paysites which are within the barely legal bounds of the law, what can anyone do?  Let's face it ... parents will tell you it's none of your damn business if they want to allow their daughters to be on display.  I'm not for that kind of censorship, and I know that we need to cast children for various forms of entertainment.

Beach wrote:
Dateline did an expose on those types of shots a while back. The ones they focused on were all technically legal but the intent of the pay sites was clearly for creeps to get off to. Since there was no nudity the authorities couldn't do anything about them.

Except nudity of underage isn't necessarily illegal, and non nude pictures aren't necessarily legal.  Which makes nudity a lousy basis for judging legality.