Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Hello everyone Iam new to photography
If a model states that she will do lets say casual for you at the rate of lets say 60$ an hour, how do model time the shoot, from as soon as the photographer meets her, or after the shooting starts, and does the photographer give the money to the model as soon as they meet.
thanks so much
Photographer
Eldor
Posts: 112
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Generally, the clock starts when the model arrives... meaning that she gets paid for the time it takes her to apply (or have applied) makeup, change clothes, etc. It's not just shooting time in front of the camera that she gets paid for.
Way back when I was starting out, I was a little bothered by that, but now it's no big deal. I use the time while she's getting ready to get to know her better and to discuss the shoot in more detail.
If a model would ever insist on getting paid the moment she walks in the door, I'd SHOW HER the door. But it's pretty common to pay her immediately at the end of the session.
Hope this helps...
Eldor
Model
Madame Cosmos
Posts: 173
Atlanta, Georgia, US
I usually get paid after the shoot.
Once the release is signed, I get my check.
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Eldor I seen your Work Super I Know you from fredmiranda
thanks
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Thanks to all I get the points
BUT //
Now I tell the model that I want to do 3 hours of shooting for 180$ total, does that mean to the model the clock is on as soon as we meet ?
thanks
Photographer
Eldor
Posts: 112
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Generally if you have contracted with the model on an hourly basis, the clock starts when she gets there and finishes at the end of the shoot, so yes.
Another way of working with a model is to tell her you've got a budget of $180 for the shoot, outlining the type of shots you need and the "expected" time it will take. Then the model can either accept or not. And the time spent together might be less or more than 3 hours.
I hope you have a client who's paying you to pay the model... otherwise if it's just to get a body in front of your lens it sounds like a lot. Sure some models get a lot more, but many get a lot less. And if your work is good, many models would be willing to work with you simply with some prints in exchange.
Good luck...
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
this is not contract
please read what i tell the Model
I tell the model that I want to do 3 hours of shooting for 180$ total, does that mean to the model the clock is on as soon as we meet ?
"I want to do 3 hours of shooting for 180$"
-----------------
I once upon a time I told two girls in South Beach I would give them Both 400$ to post nude in my Condo
they agreed, we got to the condo, I pulled out 400$ and said lets shoot they said I was 400$ short , Now was that True ?
--------------------
Photographer
Eugene Wilson
Posts: 21
Cass City, Michigan, US
Here is something that I always do prior to booking a model. I email the model with details of the shoot and wardrobe needs first. If she agrees to what is to be shot I email her back with the budget of the shoot. In that email I once agian enclose the details of the shoot, the rate I am offering, location and any other information that deals with the shoot. I also include a copy of the models release that I will be using. Before I agree to book her I have her call me or I call her to go over everything. When she accepts I email her a basic note stating that I recieved her email agreement to the terms of the shoot. Before the shoot about 3 days I send a reminder of everything she needs to bring, the time, the location, ect... If I am shooting outdoors I keep a close eye on the weather to see if the weather is going to be good. If there is a chance for bad weather I call the model right away. I have her contact me the day of the shoot to confirm the weather is clear for the shoot. When the model arrives we go thru her wardrobe get things going.
I keep a file of all email of each model in a folder on the computer with her name and a hard copy. I always take a picture of a model holding her photo ID and another form of ID. Especially if you do any form of nude or implied you want that information copied and in a folder both on the pc and in a fire proof cabinet along with the release from the shoot, contact sheet of the photos and a 8 x 10 of the picture of her holding the IDs. Another thing the IDs have to gov issued IDs. If you shoot a model that is visiting from another country and you are doing nudes of her be safe and pass you need her to have a green card. This is all part of the 2257 law about record keeping and child protection. The law has very open things in it. I have been told that you do not have to comply till you go past just art style nudes, but be safe and follow it for any nudes or implied.
I have been working with models for 15 years as a photographer and an agent. I found that keeping the same record policy for each and every model no matter the shoot is wise. Keeping everything professional with models is a must and will make things go smoother.
As to the pay part the one person post paying by a set is a very good way to go or pay by a day rate is nice as well. I found if a model is comfortable working with you whe will not be a clock watcher. I have done as a practice I tell the model we are going to need about 40 minutes to 1 hr depending on what I have to shoot with the model to go over the paperwork and set up the schedule of what shots does she want to do first and what order she wants to shoot in. Models like that you are making them more a part of the shoot and you know what most of the times they never charge me for that part. Here is one thing that if you plan to work with a model for several different shoots spread over say a few months I will have the model meet with me a go over everything at one time and do a test at that time. I do give models a copy of the pictures on a DVD from the test and let them use the pictures for promoting their look! I cast the same model for several shoots most of the time and I will tell you this it makes working with them alot easier you do not have to break the ice everytime after the first time.
I hope this helps you I am sorry if I have some typos but I want to get this on to you before I left to do a shoot. Fell free to hit me up with any questions you may have!
Eugene
Photographer
XtremeArtists
Posts: 9122
Posted by carlos1:
-----------------
I once upon a time I told two girls in South Beach I would give them Both 400$ to post nude in my Condo
they agreed, we got to the condo, I pulled out 400$ and said lets shoot they said I was 400$ short , Now was that True ?
--------------------
If they wouldn't "post nude", then it was true.
Which site did you want them to post on for you?
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Looks Like we are missing Something here
180$ for 3 hours of shooting
what does this mean?
180$ for 3 hours of shooting simple + clear .
400$ for Both / Means 400$ for Both
Simple + clear
Photographer
SayCheeZ!
Posts: 20631
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Posted by carlos1:
Looks Like we are missing Something here
180$ for 3 hours of shooting
what does this mean?
180$ for 3 hours of shooting simple + clear .
400$ for Both / Means 400$ for Both
Simple + clear It's not exactly simple and clear if people don't understand it.
In your situation you should have made it clear by stating "I will pay a total of $400 for the shoot...etc. Do you want the money divided up evenly ($200 each)?
Of course they will respond that they want the money divided evenly, $200 each. The point is, you've said it and they've acknowledged the terms of payment.
Doing that isn't SIMPLE, but it's not difficult either! Above all, it does make the terms of payment CLEAR for all that are involved!
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Posted by SayCheeZ!:
Posted by carlos1:
Looks Like we are missing Something here
180$ for 3 hours of shooting
what does this mean?
180$ for 3 hours of shooting simple + clear .
400$ for Both / Means 400$ for Both
Simple + clear It's not exactly simple and clear if people don't understand it.
In your situation you should have made it clear by stating "I will pay a total of $400 for the shoot...etc. Do you want the money divided up evenly ($200 each)?
Of course they will respond that they want the money divided evenly, $200 each. The point is, you've said it and they've acknowledged the terms of payment.
Doing that isn't SIMPLE, but it's not difficult either! Above all, it does make the terms of payment CLEAR for all that are involved!
SayCheeZ!
the girls were french but I was clear on the deal 400$ Both,
So I gave them a 50$ bill so they could take a cab, they walked about 10 blockes away they were staying in a Hotel
also 180$ to shoot for Shooting 3 hours that's clear also. NOT a 3 hour shoot for 180$
they are Slick BUT iam alot Slicker
Thanks to all
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Posted by XtremeArtists:
Posted by carlos1:
-----------------
I once upon a time I told two girls in South Beach I would give them Both 400$ to post nude in my Condo
they agreed, we got to the condo, I pulled out 400$ and said lets shoot they said I was 400$ short , Now was that True ?
--------------------
If they wouldn't "post nude", then it was true.
Which site did you want them to post on for you? No website I was doing this for fun .
400$ both means 400$ for the two NOT each
Photographer
PhotographerMV
Posts: 122
Norwood, Colorado, US
Posted by carlos1:
Looks Like we are missing Something here
180$ for 3 hours of shooting
what does this mean?
180$ for 3 hours of shooting simple + clear .
400$ for Both / Means 400$ for Both
Simple + clear um each one hears 400 sepperately and assumes it as such, they do not share ears and brains. you need to be more specific next time, and the cab ride is all up to them.
likewise to pay for shooting time, you better work out an agreement ahead of time. IMHO its for time infront of the camera as i would spend a lot more time infront of the monitor afterwards than said model would with her 'getready'.
also in Mass the law states if you need time to clean up after the work is done that time must be paid.
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
Posted by carlos1:
400$ for Both / Means 400$ for Both
Simple + clear "$400 for both" is ambiguous, as you discovered.
If you want to be clear, say "$200 each".
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Posted by Brian Diaz:
Posted by carlos1:
400$ for Both / Means 400$ for Both
Simple + clear "$400 for both" is ambiguous, as you discovered.
If you want to be clear, say "$200 each". If I say to you Brian I Got Both D2X Nikon cameras for 400$ even A blind person would understand I paid 200$ each
Thanks Folks
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Posted by PhotographerMV:
Posted by carlos1:
Looks Like we are missing Something here
180$ for 3 hours of shooting
what does this mean?
180$ for 3 hours of shooting simple + clear .
400$ for Both / Means 400$ for Both
Simple + clear um each one hears 400 sepperately and assumes it as such, they do not share ears and brains. you need to be more specific next time, and the cab ride is all up to them.
likewise to pay for shooting time, you better work out an agreement ahead of time. IMHO its for time infront of the camera as i would spend a lot more time infront of the monitor afterwards than said model would with her 'getready'.
also in Mass the law states if you need time to clean up after the work is done that time must be paid. MV 50$ was not a thing I had 10,000$ in my pocket, They left happy, I could of gave them 400$ each but I was new to picture taking and EOS1 film with the 420EZ
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 17824
El Segundo, California, US
It if were as clear as you say, the models wouldn't have misunderstood, and the various other posters in this thread wouldn't be telling you it was ambiguous.
Simple+clear.
Model
Leila
Posts: 527
Worcester, Massachusetts, US
I'm so confused right now. Is there a question you are asking?
Photographer
John Van
Posts: 3122
Vienna, Wien, Austria
Posted by carlos1:
Posted by PhotographerMV:
Posted by carlos1:
Looks Like we are missing Something here
180$ for 3 hours of shooting
what does this mean?
180$ for 3 hours of shooting simple + clear .
400$ for Both / Means 400$ for Both
Simple + clear um each one hears 400 sepperately and assumes it as such, they do not share ears and brains. you need to be more specific next time, and the cab ride is all up to them.
likewise to pay for shooting time, you better work out an agreement ahead of time. IMHO its for time infront of the camera as i would spend a lot more time infront of the monitor afterwards than said model would with her 'getready'.
also in Mass the law states if you need time to clean up after the work is done that time must be paid. MV 50$ was not a thing I had 10,000$ in my pocket, They left happy, I could of gave them 400$ each but I was new to picture taking and EOS1 film with the 420EZ
If you said '$400 for both,' it means $200 each. If you said, as you posted, 'both $400,' it means $400 each.
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
Posted by carlos1:
-----------------
I once upon a time I told two girls in South Beach I would give them Both 400$ to post nude in my Condo
they agreed, we got to the condo, I pulled out 400$ and said lets shoot they said I was 400$ short , Now was that True ?
--------------------
No, "I will give you both $400" sounds like $400 each to me.
Model
Leila
Posts: 527
Worcester, Massachusetts, US
Posted by theda:
Posted by carlos1:
-----------------
I once upon a time I told two girls in South Beach I would give them Both 400$ to post nude in my Condo
they agreed, we got to the condo, I pulled out 400$ and said lets shoot they said I was 400$ short , Now was that True ?
--------------------
No, "I will give you both $400" sounds like $400 each to me. Yeah thats what I would have thought too.
Model
CTD- NYC Model
Posts: 969
Fairfield, Connecticut, US
Posted by carlos1:
I would give them Both 400$ to post nude in my Condo
Sounds like $400 each to me.
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Posted by theda:
Posted by carlos1:
-----------------
I once upon a time I told two girls in South Beach I would give them Both 400$ to post nude in my Condo
they agreed, we got to the condo, I pulled out 400$ and said lets shoot they said I was 400$ short , Now was that True ?
--------------------
Sounds Like to me , Looks Like the Sun is Moving is in the east then the west To Me, BUT IS NOT...
He gave me BOTH D2Xs for 400$ SOunds Like I paid 800$ ?BUT Did I,True yes No
No, "I will give you both $400" sounds like $400 each to me.
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Posted by Kevin Connery:
It if were as clear as you say, the models wouldn't have misunderstood, and the various other posters in this thread wouldn't be telling you it was ambiguous.
Simple+clear. There We go the Models MisUnderStood Me, OR they wanted to Rip Me Off
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Posted by Leila:
I'm so confused right now. Is there a question you are asking? LeiLa I like you Sweety BUT read and you will be Okay
Great Body
Photographer
LongWindFPV Visuals
Posts: 7052
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Posted by carlos1:
Posted by Kevin Connery:
It if were as clear as you say, the models wouldn't have misunderstood, and the various other posters in this thread wouldn't be telling you it was ambiguous.
Simple+clear. There We go the Models MisUnderStood Me, OR they wanted to Rip Me Off Hi Carlos,
   I will give you both advanced English reading and writing instruction for $400.
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
Posted by carlos1:
Posted by Kevin Connery:
It if were as clear as you say, the models wouldn't have misunderstood, and the various other posters in this thread wouldn't be telling you it was ambiguous.
Simple+clear. There We go the Models MisUnderStood Me, OR they wanted to Rip Me Off I sense a language barrier. Carlos, do you have any friends or co workers that speak better English?
When the use of broken English is used to negotiate a contract or legal binder, there is loss of detail and anything can be misconstrued.
I suggest you contact the free speech coalition and buy the artist agreement forms they sell and have them filled out with each model.
http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/
One last detail you need to pay attention to is the 18 U.S.C. Section 2257 Compliance Notice
http://service.adultprovide.com/docs/records.htm
Itâs the law, deal with it.
Good luck,
Craig
Model
Leila
Posts: 527
Worcester, Massachusetts, US
Posted by carlos1:
Posted by Leila:
I'm so confused right now. Is there a question you are asking? LeiLa I like you Sweety BUT read and you will be Okay
Great Body Not trying to be rude but you may want to brush up on english grammar. Everyone here is confused and obviously it caused you a problem when trying to get people to model for you.
Edited to say: I didn't see the above post before but it has great advice. It's never a good idea to be discussing legal matters if either party is confused by the other person's meaning. I worked once with an indian photographer who was a really nice guy but I kept having to clarify what he ment. I felt bad about it cause I'm sure he got it a lot but I wasn't going to work with someone unless I knew exactly what he was intending to use the photos for.
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
Posted by carlos1:
Posted by Leila:
I'm so confused right now. Is there a question you are asking? LeiLa I like you Sweety BUT read and you will be Okay
Great Body That was uncalled for. I think you should take Joe up on his offer for English lessons.
Photographer
carlos1
Posts: 30
New York, New York, US
Posted by CThomson:
Posted by carlos1:
Posted by Kevin Connery:
It if were as clear as you say, the models wouldn't have misunderstood, and the various other posters in this thread wouldn't be telling you it was ambiguous.
Simple+clear. There We go the Models MisUnderStood Me, OR they wanted to Rip Me Off I sense a language barrier. Carlos, do you have any friends or co workers that speak better English?
When the use of broken English is used to negotiate a contract or legal binder, there is loss of detail and anything can be misconstrued.
I suggest you contact the free speech coalition and buy the artist agreement forms they sell and have them filled out with each model.
http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/
One last detail you need to pay attention to is the 18 U.S.C. Section 2257 Compliance Notice
http://service.adultprovide.com/docs/records.htm
Itâs the law, deal with it.
Good luck,
Craig
CThomson You can't give Me advice, What part did you not Get?
Iam old enough to be your granddad, the Law who's Law , Shoot and Pay I got the Cash do you? you bugging
Model
Leila
Posts: 527
Worcester, Massachusetts, US
Posted by carlos1:
CThomson You can't give Me advice, What part did you not Get?
Iam old enough to be your granddad, the Law who's Law , Shoot and Pay I got the Cash do you? you bugging Ugh...I was hoping this wasn't going to be like every other thread where someone asks for advice and then gets pissed when someone actually gives them advice.
Carlos, you said you are just getting into photography so why aren't you willing to take advice from a professional? People here are just trying to be helpful. If you are going to be rude when people give you advice maybe you shouldn't ask for it.
It doesn't matter how old you are if you don't know what your doing. And if you don't want to abide by the laws thats fine. Just don't be surpised when you get in a lot of trouble latter.
And no one cares how much money you have. Again you can have a lot of money and have no idea what you are doing. Money does not make you a good photographer.
Photographer
Magic Image Photography
Posts: 3606
Temple City, California, US
Who here pays for just casual shoots. I normally do casual and fashion shoots for time for prints and CD. I have even done some nudes for just TFP work. Unless she or he was an established model then i see no reason to pay anything. Some models make it a point to get most of their cash from Nude or Glamour nude shoots. I agree if you want to see the goods you have to pay. But your not getting any pics off of me maybe a few complimentary shoots but that's all. I make magic I am the magic man. Magic image Photography
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
Posted by MagicImagePhoto:
Who here pays for just casual shoots. I normally do casual and fashion shoots for time for prints and CD. I have even done some nudes for just TFP work. Unless she or he was an established model then i see no reason to pay anything. Some models make it a point to get most of their cash from Nude or Glamour nude shoots. I agree if you want to see the goods you have to pay. But your not getting any pics off of me maybe a few complimentary shoots but that's all. I make magic I am the magic man. Magic image Photography Photographers who suck pay for "casual." And I really do appreciate it that women's nude bodies are referred to as "the good." Charming.
Photographer
urban prospect
Posts: 216
New York, New York, US
"the goods" I like that term...much better the jugs, t##t, etc...lol
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
Posted by Leila:
Posted by carlos1:
CThomson You can't give Me advice, What part did you not Get?
Iam old enough to be your granddad, the Law who's Law , Shoot and Pay I got the Cash do you? you bugging
Carlos, I have not posted on this site asking for models, I take the time to view others work and make comments based on how the images make me feel good or bad.
There are some profiles that I wouldnât cross the street to piss on if they were on fire, but I keep my words to myself as it would not benefit the artist to be mean to them.
My work comes to me through open communication with the models.
I have set ideas and photo shoots Iâd like to do and when I see a model that has the look that will add to a set Iâm building, I ask her if sheâs interested in being part of the production.
I enjoy working with models and other photographers and feel that when you isolate yourself from the world, you slow the growth of your artistic ability and the ability to interact with others.
Tonight I will shoot photos of 7 different models because I was invited, this weekend, I have 2 separate photo sessions scheduled, I only hope you become a successful photographer and are able to give back to the community from which you take. Ugh...I was hoping this wasn't going to be like every other thread where someone asks for advice and then gets pissed when someone actually gives them advice.
Carlos, you said you are just getting into photography so why aren't you willing to take advice from a professional? People here are just trying to be helpful. If you are going to be rude when people give you advice maybe you shouldn't ask for it.
It doesn't matter how old you are if you don't know what your doing. And if you don't want to abide by the laws thatâs fine. Just don't be surprised when you get in a lot of trouble latter.
And no one cares how much money you have. Again you can have a lot of money and have no idea what you are doing. Money does not make you a good photographer. Thank you dear Leila,
I was hesitant about answer his request for any help but I took the plunge anyways.
I remember being new and needing to ask others for advice, but I never shit on anyone for taking the time to understand what I was asking and giving me a thoughtful reply.
In fact, Iâm still good friends with the ones that were there in the beginning.
The world is a place for all to exist, Iâll continue to do what I do and carlos will continue to do what he does.
The advice on item 2257 is by far the most important thing anyone that even stands in a studio where nude photography takes place and if he wishes to ignore the law, he will be the one that has to explain to all the others that the law didnât apply to him.
Good luck to you.
Craig
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
CThomson You can't give Me advice, What part did you not Get?
Iam old enough to be your granddad, the Law who's Law , Shoot and Pay I got the Cash do you? you bugging Carlos, I have not posted on this site asking for models, I take the time to view others work and make comments based on how the images make me feel good or bad.
There are some profiles that I wouldnât cross the street to piss on if they were on fire, but I keep my words to myself as it would not benefit the artist to be mean to them.
My work comes to me through open communication with the models in my geographical area. If you've looked at the MM #'s I have listed on my profile, you can see all are within 100 miles of my studios.
There is one exception and that's "Nakedpoet MM 18271" who contacted my knowing he was going to be in my area and wanted to schedule a session with me in my studio weeks before his trip. He is from Vancouver, Canada.
Read the tags from the models I've worked with.
I have set ideas and photo shoots Iâd like to do and when I see a model that has the look that will add to a set Iâm building, I ask her if sheâs interested in being part of the production.
I enjoy working with models and other photographers and feel that when you isolate yourself from the world, you slow the growth of your artistic ability and the ability to interact with others.
Tonight I will shoot photos of 7 different models because I was invited, this weekend, I have 2 separate photo sessions scheduled, I only hope you become a successful photographer and are able to give back to the community from which you take.
I think you don't have to worry about the laws I was referring to. It was a joke, Please accept my apology
Craig
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