Model
Miss Nyx
Posts: 152
Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
I want to associate myself with someone more experienced, but I find that really hard to do withmy quality of pictures. Don't get me wrong I am so grateful to the photographers that have taken time out of their lives to help me and give me advice. I just really want to succeed in modeling. How would I get the interest of more experiences photographers and makeup artists?
Photographer
OpenMinds
Posts: 886
Paradise Valley, Arizona, US
Shicara wrote:
I want to associate myself with someone more experienced, but I find that really hard to do withmy quality of pictures. Don't get me wrong I am so grateful to the photographers that have taken time out of their lives to help me and give me advice. I just really want to succeed in modeling. How would I get the interest of more experiences photographers and makeup artists? I always wanted to be an astronaut, but I didn't have the qualifications either.
Model
Miss Nyx
Posts: 152
Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
I am not saying I don't have the qualifications to become a model, it's merely needing the advice and means of doing so.
Model
Beatrix Mae
Posts: 2499
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Ask local photographer's whose work you like what their rates are. Sometimes you have to pay for quality. I do assisting and I can tell you paid Clients get a lot of usefull tips out of a session
Photographer
976 Photography
Posts: 4599
Shreveport, Louisiana, US
If you're not happy with the quality of the photographers you're currently working with, then you need to evaluate why you're working with them.
I assume you're somewhat new, and that you're looking to build a really great portfolio. You can luck out with inexperienced photographers from time to time with TF work. But what you should probably focus on is finding photographers in your area that do really great work that really impresses you.
But to get them to work with you you may have to bite the bullet and hire one or two of them. Pay them to get some great pictures for your port, then as your port improves you'll be able to do more TF work with better photographers.
Photographer
BodyartBabes
Posts: 2005
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Beatrix Mae wrote:
Ask local photographer's whose work you like what their rates are. Sometimes you have to pay for quality. I do assisting and I can tell you paid Clients get a lot of usefull tips out of a session Why is it that the first thing people here tell new models is to PAY ????
If a _MODEL_ can't get people to work with her for TRADE, there is NO REASON FOR HER TO PAY!! It would be like a road crew PAYING to fix roads, or a gardener PAYING to do your yardwork.
MODELS DO NOT PAY!!
CLIENTS PAY. But the same concept holds.... if a would-be-model-turned-client has to PAY for photos, because people won't work with her "free"/TF* then she needs to seriously think about some other work, and *NOT* spend her money filling other people's pockets filling THEIR dreams while she loses hers.
If a PERSON has what it takes to be a model, she worth something, People will WANT to work with her TF* so they don't have to PAY HER!
*THAT* is the concept. If you have to pay someone to work with you, for something *YOU* SHOULD BE GETTING PAID FOR something is wrong!
Think about it. seriously.
OP -- maybe you just need some time. People don't like to work with people under 18/legal-age for a lot of reasons. Things may change once you turn 18. Just keep trying to work with people when you can. Don't rush it. And don't *PAY* for things YOU SHOULD BE PAID FOR!
Modeling is a _JOB_.... you don't PAY to go to work!
Scott
Photographer
Too Hot For Snakes
Posts: 5596
TERLINGUA, Texas, US
BodyartBabes wrote:
Why is it that the first thing people here tell new models is to PAY ????
If a _MODEL_ can't get people to work with her for TRADE, there is NO REASON FOR HER TO PAY!! It would be like a road crew PAYING to fix roads, or a gardener PAYING to do your yardwork.
MODELS DO NOT PAY!!
CLIENTS PAY. But the same concept holds.... if a would-be-model-turned-client has to PAY for photos, because people won't work with her "free"/TF* then she needs to seriously think about some other work, and *NOT* spend her money filling other people's pockets filling THEIR dreams while she loses hers.
If a PERSON has what it takes to be a model, she worth something, People will WANT to work with her TF* so they don't have to PAY HER!
*THAT* is the concept. If you have to pay someone to work with you, for something *YOU* SHOULD BE GETTING PAID FOR something is wrong!
Think about it. seriously.
OP -- maybe you just need some time. People don't like to work with people under 18/legal-age for a lot of reasons. Things may change once you turn 18. Just keep trying to work with people when you can. Don't rush it. And don't *PAY* for things YOU SHOULD BE PAID FOR!
Modeling is a _JOB_.... you don't PAY to go to work!
Scott Huh? This is MM, not the lobby at Elite.
Model
Elizabeth Marxs
Posts: 1733
Denver, Colorado, US
Shicara wrote:
I want to associate myself with someone more experienced, but I find that really hard to do withmy quality of pictures. Don't get me wrong I am so grateful to the photographers that have taken time out of their lives to help me and give me advice. I just really want to succeed in modeling. How would I get the interest of more experiences photographers and makeup artists? Let me just say, I have never paid a photographer. I don't think there's anything wrong with it but I have never had to. I have paid muas though. Maybe its your location. Try researching photographers is areas close to you. You're gorgeous, don't give up
Photographer
karenjerzykphotography
Posts: 1756
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Anyone will work with you if the pay is right.
But, no one's willing to pay anymore.
Photographer
JEBKA Photography
Posts: 3974
Firestone, Colorado, US
Success is made from incremental steps. You started with some photographers and now you want better ones. Give them a reason. Just like a good image is the work of at least a model and photographer, so is a poor image. You do better at modeling and there is a good chance the photographer you already worked with will produce better. Show that work and quite possibly a better photographer will notice the potential. And for some strange reason people actually take offense at paying a photographer. Even a babysitter gets paid. Let's be realistic. If you want an awesome photographer to work with you even tho you don't have the book to show, you may very well have to pay for what you want. I'd start by improving your end of the photo and make photographers notice you. But as you can see by my avatar, my last shoot was a bunch of very cooperative driveway marker lights so I might be wrong 
Model
Elizabeth Marxs
Posts: 1733
Denver, Colorado, US
karenjerzykphotography wrote:
Anyone will work with you if the pay is right.
But, no one's willing to pay anymore. But like the poster said above, if a model has to pay to get decent images then she should choose another profession. The photographers I am willing to pay I don't need their work to get paid, I just want it and love it for the artistic value. If you have to pay and can't get trade work then do something else. You shouldn't have to pay, you should pay if you want to not because you have to. However karen, I would pay you.
Model
sofija
Posts: 23614
Boston, Massachusetts, US
I posted in your other thread by accident.
Someone mentioned casting calls. Agreed.
And if you want to work with amazing photographers and you only have minimal experience, be prepared to pay for their services.
Photographer
DigitAl Photographix
Posts: 919
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Is there a local tertiary institute that runs photography courses in your area (diploma or degree?)
If so, "put your hand up" as a model . . . you get a photographer, assistant photographer, costume, sets, make-up, the works! OK, they may not be "qualified" yet but they can still produce some stunningly creative results. It can be hit-and-miss but worth a try.
(PS being autistic, I tend to work alone but some models I know of have ventured down this path and achieved surprising results).
Good luck!
Photographer
ForeverFotos
Posts: 6662
Indianapolis, Indiana, US
BodyartBabes wrote:
Why is it that the first thing people here tell new models is to PAY ????
If a _MODEL_ can't get people to work with her for TRADE, there is NO REASON FOR HER TO PAY!! It would be like a road crew PAYING to fix roads, or a gardener PAYING to do your yardwork.
MODELS DO NOT PAY!!
CLIENTS PAY. But the same concept holds.... if a would-be-model-turned-client has to PAY for photos, because people won't work with her "free"/TF* then she needs to seriously think about some other work, and *NOT* spend her money filling other people's pockets filling THEIR dreams while she loses hers.
If a PERSON has what it takes to be a model, she worth something, People will WANT to work with her TF* so they don't have to PAY HER!
*THAT* is the concept. If you have to pay someone to work with you, for something *YOU* SHOULD BE GETTING PAID FOR something is wrong!
Think about it. seriously.
OP -- maybe you just need some time. People don't like to work with people under 18/legal-age for a lot of reasons. Things may change once you turn 18. Just keep trying to work with people when you can. Don't rush it. And don't *PAY* for things YOU SHOULD BE PAID FOR!
Modeling is a _JOB_.... you don't PAY to go to work!
Scott They say you get what you pay for. Maybe working with better photographers will cost a little, but it's better than wasting time on bad photography. A model usually has very little time to be productive.
Photographer
L U C I M A
Posts: 945
Los Angeles, California, US
BodyartBabes wrote:
Why is it that the first thing people here tell new models is to PAY ????
If a _MODEL_ can't get people to work with her for TRADE, there is NO REASON FOR HER TO PAY!! It would be like a road crew PAYING to fix roads, or a gardener PAYING to do your yardwork.
MODELS DO NOT PAY!!
CLIENTS PAY. But the same concept holds.... if a would-be-model-turned-client has to PAY for photos, because people won't work with her "free"/TF* then she needs to seriously think about some other work, and *NOT* spend her money filling other people's pockets filling THEIR dreams while she loses hers.
If a PERSON has what it takes to be a model, she worth something, People will WANT to work with her TF* so they don't have to PAY HER!
*THAT* is the concept. If you have to pay someone to work with you, for something *YOU* SHOULD BE GETTING PAID FOR something is wrong!
Think about it. seriously.
OP -- maybe you just need some time. People don't like to work with people under 18/legal-age for a lot of reasons. Things may change once you turn 18. Just keep trying to work with people when you can. Don't rush it. And don't *PAY* for things YOU SHOULD BE PAID FOR!
Modeling is a _JOB_.... you don't PAY to go to work!
Scott To start, I have a relationship with FORD Models where some of their models pay me to shoot their ports. FORD has great models. Most of them are really really good looking. Yet there are lots of FORD models that I won't shoot for unpaid tests.
Modeling is a job. You don't pay to work but you do pay to get work. And you can't get that work without having certain prerequisites. For example, I can't be a photographer without a camera. I mean I can, but who would take me seriously? Instead of thinking of it as unreasonably paying for no good reason, you should consider it an investment to build your portfolio correctly, which is the basic prerequisite for modeling; you need a decent modeling portfolio.
Now as a model you can do this the easy way or the hard way. IMHO the hard way is to experiment with photographers over and over again until via trial and error you accumulate thousands of pictures and wind up putting 20 in your book. But modeling is a time-sensitive career. Maybe you don't have months/years to devote to that kind of experimentation. Maybe by the time you build your book, the agencies/clients won't want you anymore? Maybe you'll look back and wish you hadn't wasted time with this photographer or that photographer. On the brighter side of things it could all be a good learning experience.
If you're LeBron James or Kobe Bryant, you probably get free shoes all the time. But if you're not one of the aforementioned NBA greats, then you probably pay for your own shoes.
Again, I know plenty of models that have never paid (a photographer) to test. I also know plenty of photographers that have never paid (a model) to test. And though I'm one of those photographers, I would do it differently if I could do it all over again. Instead of spending all that time trying to build credibility when I had none, I could have hired agency models to help me with my portfolio... and bam! Instant credibility.
Of course if you're a bad model/photographer the best photographer/models can't help you. But if you're worth a damn, hiring the best allows you to leapfrog the the trial and error experimentation of doing unpaid tests.
And Scott is correct on some level. We're all dreamers but for modeling your looks are a bona fide occupational qualification. For example, Hooters can turn me down my job application because I have a concave chest. If you don't have the looks perhaps you should look into a different occupation.
But don't listen to any of us. If you want something bad enough. Go out and get it
Model
Miss Nyx
Posts: 152
Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
sofija wrote:
I posted in your other thread by accident.
Someone mentioned casting calls. Agreed.
And if you want to work with amazing photographers and you only have minimal experience, be prepared to pay for their services. Yes, my apologies for the double post! I had technical problems. XD
by the way THANK YOU for all the opinions, its fantastic. I love reading them; its definitely giving me things to think about.
Model
sofija
Posts: 23614
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Shicara wrote:
Yes, my apologies for the double post! I had technical problems. XD
by the way THANK YOU for all the opinions, its fantastic. I love reading them; its definitely giving me things to think about. Don't get discouraged.
It's hard to break into modeling.
I was really lucky because a well known and internationally published fetish photographer lived down the street from me and helped me off to a great start with my portfolio.
Have you attended any group shoots or meet-ups? That's another way to meet lots of photographers at once and maybe get a good shot or two for your port.
Model
Breann Rambo
Posts: 2086
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Shicara wrote:
I just really want to succeed in modeling. How would I get the interest of more experiences photographers and makeup artists? I may get beat up by this, but um... I ask with the best intentions.
You mention you want to succeed in modeling, but what do you mean by that? What do you consider succeeding?
Your stats (5'4" 160) really limit you on what you can shoot... thus it limits the photographers that may find you useful for their port. 5'4" is too short for fashion/commercial. 17 is too young for nudes (at least for most clients).
What type of modeling were you hoping to succeed at? Maybe people could give some tips. You mention ALT in your profile, but that would be very hard to succeed at in your location (again depending on your definition of success).
Modeling is VERY hard to break into ... even girls with perfect stats have a ton of competition to get a clients attention. What do you have that they do not? It is a hard reality... so think about what you consider "successful" and then take a hard look at your goals and see if they are attainable.
Hugs and all the best to you!
Bri
Photographer
976 Photography
Posts: 4599
Shreveport, Louisiana, US
xElizabethx wrote:
But like the poster said above, if a model has to pay to get decent images then she should choose another profession. The photographers I am willing to pay I don't need their work to get paid, I just want it and love it for the artistic value. If you have to pay and can't get trade work then do something else. You shouldn't have to pay, you should pay if you want to not because you have to. However karen, I would pay you. But the experienced photographers who "generally" do better work than ones who are just starting out will not do trade work with just anyone. They expect to be paid for their services just as an experienced model like yourself would.
For instance, would you do TF work with me? I doubt it, not at this time. If I wanted an experienced model like yourself to add to my port right now I'd have to pay you. So why should it be any different for an inexperienced model who needs good quality work from an experienced photographer?
The OP didn't say she couldn't find TF work, she said she was having trouble getting the quality she's looking for. It may very well be that the only photographers willing to do TF work with her just aren't up to par, and if she wants pics done by a better photographer, she may have to pay someone to do that for her. THEN, once her port starts to improve she'll have a better chance of getting TF work with the better photographers, especially if she can show them something different that she can bring to the table.
Model
Beatrix Mae
Posts: 2499
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
BodyartBabes wrote:
Why is it that the first thing people here tell new models is to PAY ????
If a _MODEL_ can't get people to work with her for TRADE, there is NO REASON FOR HER TO PAY!! It would be like a road crew PAYING to fix roads, or a gardener PAYING to do your yardwork.
MODELS DO NOT PAY!!... Wow. Really? Ask around to some successful models they'll probably tell you they've paid for quality images. Why shouldn't I pay? I'm investing in my portfolio to advance my career.
I was giving the OP some pretty useful advice. When you work with a photographer as a client there is a lot more interaction and structure. You can really learn from it. No need to be a dick and start talking out of your ass.
Photographer
Kat M Photography
Posts: 302
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
If you want stellar shots in your portfolio, pay a really good photographer to help you out.
If you can get a TFP shoot with a good photographer, even better.
Just work really hard, message, network and do everything you can.
Model
Miss Nyx
Posts: 152
Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
Breann Rambo wrote:
I may get beat up by this, but um... I ask with the best intentions.
You mention you want to succeed in modeling, but what do you mean by that? What do you consider succeeding?
Your stats (5'4" 160) really limit you on what you can shoot... thus it limits the photographers that may find you useful for their port. 5'4" is too short for fashion/commercial. 17 is too young for nudes (at least for most clients).
What type of modeling were you hoping to succeed at? Maybe people could give some tips. You mention ALT in your profile, but that would be very hard to succeed at in your location (again depending on your definition of success).
Modeling is VERY hard to break into ... even girls with perfect stats have a ton of competition to get a clients attention. What do you have that they do not? It is a hard reality... so think about what you consider "successful" and then take a hard look at your goals and see if they are attainable.
Hugs and all the best to you!
Bri Oh, I don't find that this should get you bashed at all. >.<
I have realized that my genetics have done everything they could to limit my passions, but this doesn't mean I won't give it all I got. I am not going to break my knees to just add an inch or two onto my height, that is for damn sure. But, my weight is definitely something that is fixable. I am going into Tai Kwon Do classes to get into shape and tone up a little, I have also been trying to keep a keen eye on what I shove into my mouth for dinner.
By successful, I want people to recognize my name, conceited I know, but that is only one of the many reasons. I also want to look back and be able to say "Well, I know I did my best, and now look at where I am at." I know I won't be able to reach the top, but I damn well want to get near it. I have yet to have a fixed type of modeling I want do, I would rather try them all out if I possibly could, see which one inspires me the most and see where it goes from there. I am quite Oooed and Awwed by Glamour and High Fashion shoots, playing around with those would really put a little girl shimmer in my eyes. :p
I have no idea if that answered any of your questions, if not, I apologize.
Model
Miss Nyx
Posts: 152
Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
Reading all of the posts, it is apparent that I am going to have to pay a photographer, which is fine by me; but how much would a GOOD photographer charge an hour? And How would I set that up? Are the hours endless and eventually I will be stripped of all the cash in my bank, or would we set up a 3 hour shoot and when the clock strikes 3:00, he/she will leave?
The shoots I have done, I have usually met with the photographer, talked over coffee, set up a time and shoot. Or it was a "hey, this place looks awesome, go over there and look good." Lol of course, that was my friend (whom is a photographer) who would say that, but nonetheless. >.< Or we would plan a location, and see what happens from there...
Model
sofija
Posts: 23614
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Shicara wrote:
Reading all of the posts, it is apparent that I am going to have to pay a photographer, which is fine by me; but how much would a GOOD photographer charge an hour? And How would I set that up? Are the hours endless and eventually I will be stripped of all the cash in my bank, or would we set up a 3 hour shoot and when the clock strikes 3:00, he/she will leave?
The shoots I have done, I have usually met with the photographer, talked over coffee, set up a time and shoot. Or it was a "hey, this place looks awesome, go over there and look good." Lol of course, that was my friend (whom is a photographer) who would say that, but nonetheless. >.< Or we would plan a location, and see what happens from there... Hopefully some photographers will come in and respond to this but before you go giving your money to anyone, do your research. Look through their ports/websites to make sure you want to work with them. See if they can recommend a MUA. Ask how many images you will receive for each look.
You might want to try and book some more trade shoots before you even think of paying a photographer. A good photographer will help you pose and direct you but if you don't know what you're doing, it's going to be apparent in the photos.
Photographer
976 Photography
Posts: 4599
Shreveport, Louisiana, US
Definitly do some research before you do hire one. Check their port first, contact models they have worked with before and ask how the session went. And contact the photographer and ask any questions you may have for them. Make sure you get the answeres you need, every photographer will operate a little different.
As for price, it'll depend on the photographer as to what they charge. You'll just have to ask them, each one will be different.
Basically, what will probably happen is you'll set up a certain amount of time, so say a 3 hour shoot. The time usually starts when the photographer starts shooting. It shouldn't be a strict rigid schedule with a timer going off or anything, but say you start shooting "around" 2 pm then expect to finish "around" 5 pm give or take 10-15 minutes.
Depending on makeup and wardrobe changes, you can get a lot done in a 2 or 3 hour session. But these are just sort of guidelines. So be sure to discuss it with your photographer when you do choose one.
Photographer
Pixel Fist
Posts: 3404
Knoxville, Tennessee, US
There are people here who will help you if you can find them and make the case. Not everyone has the same opinion. Not everyone has the same disposition. Not everyone has the same where-with-all. Not everyone has the same talant. A year ago, I would even pay a small amount, just because I could. Now I don't, but if things change, like I start making over 200k again, I would pay again.
'Looking above, don't you see one or two who take themselves, and their perception of thier function WAY too seriously?!! LOL!
Photographer
OpenMinds
Posts: 886
Paradise Valley, Arizona, US
BodyartBabes wrote:
Why is it that the first thing people here tell new models is to PAY ????
If a _MODEL_ can't get people to work with her for TRADE, there is NO REASON FOR HER TO PAY!! It would be like a road crew PAYING to fix roads, or a gardener PAYING to do your yardwork.
MODELS DO NOT PAY!!
CLIENTS PAY. But the same concept holds.... if a would-be-model-turned-client has to PAY for photos, because people won't work with her "free"/TF* then she needs to seriously think about some other work, and *NOT* spend her money filling other people's pockets filling THEIR dreams while she loses hers.
If a PERSON has what it takes to be a model, she worth something, People will WANT to work with her TF* so they don't have to PAY HER!
*THAT* is the concept. If you have to pay someone to work with you, for something *YOU* SHOULD BE GETTING PAID FOR something is wrong!
Think about it. seriously.
OP -- maybe you just need some time. People don't like to work with people under 18/legal-age for a lot of reasons. Things may change once you turn 18. Just keep trying to work with people when you can. Don't rush it. And don't *PAY* for things YOU SHOULD BE PAID FOR!
Modeling is a _JOB_.... you don't PAY to go to work!
Scott MODELS DO NOT PAY!!
Whaaaaaaaaaa?????????????????????????
So, just how is the photographer suppose to make his income???
Models DO pay, or they don't get services and products from some of us.
Assuming that every photographer will feel honored to shoot a model just because shes a "model", is pure bullshit. We have bills.. we need to eat.
Model
sofija
Posts: 23614
Boston, Massachusetts, US
OpenMinds wrote:
MODELS DO NOT PAY!!
Whaaaaaaaaaa?????????????????????????
So, just how is the photographer suppose to make his income???
Models DO pay, or they don't get services and products from some of us.
Assuming that every photographer will feel honored to shoot a model just because shes a "model", is pure bullshit. We have bills.. we need to eat. You missed his point.
Clients pay.
But MM is not the modeling industry.
Photographer
Pixel Fist
Posts: 3404
Knoxville, Tennessee, US
OpenMinds wrote:
MODELS DO NOT PAY!!
Whaaaaaaaaaa?????????????????????????
So, just how is the photographer suppose to make his income???
Models DO pay, or they don't get services and products from some of us.
Assuming that every photographer will feel honored to shoot a model just because shes a "model", is pure bullshit. We have bills.. we need to eat. "Open Mind", there are different business models* among photographers here.
*-not to be confused with the kind that pose.
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30129
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
BodyartBabes wrote:
Why is it that the first thing people here tell new models is to PAY ????
If a _MODEL_ can't get people to work with her for TRADE, there is NO REASON FOR HER TO PAY!! It would be like a road crew PAYING to fix roads, or a gardener PAYING to do your yardwork.
MODELS DO NOT PAY!!
CLIENTS PAY. But the same concept holds.... if a would-be-model-turned-client has to PAY for photos, because people won't work with her "free"/TF* then she needs to seriously think about some other work, and *NOT* spend her money filling other people's pockets filling THEIR dreams while she loses hers.
If a PERSON has what it takes to be a model, she worth something, People will WANT to work with her TF* so they don't have to PAY HER!
*THAT* is the concept. If you have to pay someone to work with you, for something *YOU* SHOULD BE GETTING PAID FOR something is wrong!
Think about it. seriously.
OP -- maybe you just need some time. People don't like to work with people under 18/legal-age for a lot of reasons. Things may change once you turn 18. Just keep trying to work with people when you can. Don't rush it. And don't *PAY* for things YOU SHOULD BE PAID FOR!
Modeling is a _JOB_.... you don't PAY to go to work!
Scott actually there are a lot of photographers in this world who charge to help a model build her book , maybe even some in your town too
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