This thread was locked on 2011-12-13 07:21:27
Photographer
Kaos Eight
Posts: 4
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
I figured I would post this here to see what other people think. Its how I have been doing business/shooting for nearly a decade and it has always proven to be EXTREMELY effective in delivering GREAT shots. However not all models understand it, some take offense to it, etc.
When I say method acting what I mean is that nothing I shoot is ever "faked". When I have done cutting/blood photos the model was actually into cutting and actually cut herself. However i think the best example is when I did my series of "vulnerable sexuality" photos for my first book. The photos were meant to capture a woman at their most vulnerable point of sexuality (post assault/rape) if you will. No I didn't actually rape the model. What happened was the model drank a bottle of wine before she came over. Then before the shoot took place I threw her around the basement, into walls, onto the floor, smacked her around and degraded her verbally until she was literally in tears, broken, etc. and the photos looked so good because of it. I still get comments on them. Of course again this model was fetish/submissive so it was a unique situation.
With all models i try to find triggers however. Triggers to their emotions, their sexuality, kink, etc. I want to find the sure fire instant gratification approaches to put them in the mindset needed for the particular photo. One of my models has me pull her hair and whisper things to her every few shots. Another model just likes a lot of flirting and light touching. One model used to dissapear out of the room every 10 photos or so to masturbate and then would return. It all depends on the model. I actually once had a model say she needed to watch me jerk off to get in that mind set to which I quickly replied HELL NO and stopped the shoot. (I do have limits and standards) Its not just me doing these things either. I always have my wife (co-shooter) or another female model on set and often times the spare model does the triggering.
I am just curious if anyone else shoots this way. What your experiences have been with it etc, What people's takes are. If any models think this is cool or interesting.
Photographer
Blue Ash Film Group
Posts: 10343
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
This will be an interesting thread to watch.
Model
-Titania-
Posts: 11969
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
I will watch this thread to know who to never work with.
Photographer
Paul Ferris
Posts: 3625
New York, New York, US
Look! It's the bait.... Nah. Im not going to take it.
Photographer
Blue Ash Film Group
Posts: 10343
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
-Titania- wrote:
I will watch this thread to know who to never work with. Or recommend.
Model
D M M
Posts: 7910
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Kaos Eight wrote:
I figured I would post this here to see what other people think. Its how I have been doing business/shooting for nearly a decade and it has always proven to be EXTREMELY effective in delivering GREAT shots. However not all models understand it, some take offense to it, etc. Why do you think that is?
Kaos Eight wrote:
When I say method acting what I mean is that nothing I shoot is ever "faked". When I have done cutting/blood photos the model was actually into cutting and actually cut herself. However i think the best example is when I did my series of "vulnerable sexuality" photos for my first book. The photos were meant to capture a woman at their most vulnerable point of sexuality (post assault/rape) if you will. No I didn't actually rape the model. What happened was the model drank a bottle of wine before she came over. Then before the shoot took place I threw her around the basement, into walls, onto the floor, smacked her around and degraded her verbally until she was literally in tears, broken, etc. and the photos looked so good because of it. I still get comments on them. Of course again this model was fetish/submissive so it was a unique situation. If she has a fetish for submission, and agreed to the role play, then your degradation should have been a turn on, no? Do you think perhaps that you actually traumatized her? If you did or had, would those photos be worth it?
Do you think your project was in any way helpful to rape victims/survivors? What was your intent in creating those photographs? Most importantly, how do you think rape victims/survivors would react to the method you used to obtain these photographs?
Kaos Eight wrote:
With all models i try to find triggers however. Triggers to their emotions, their sexuality, kink, etc. I want to find the sure fire instant gratification approaches to put them in the mindset needed for the particular photo. One of my models has me pull her hair and whisper things to her every few shots. Another model just likes a lot of flirting and light touching. One model used to dissapear out of the room every 10 photos or so to masturbate and then would return. It all depends on the model. I actually once had a model say she needed to watch me jerk off to get in that mind set to which I quickly replied HELL NO and stopped the shoot. (I do have limits and standards) Its not just me doing these things either. I always have my wife (co-shooter) or another female model on set and often times the spare model does the triggering.
I am just curious if anyone else shoots this way. What your experiences have been with it etc, What people's takes are. If any models think this is cool or interesting. Why did you stop the shoot? What are your limits and standards? Elaborate.
Photographer
PashaPhoto
Posts: 9726
Brooklyn, New York, US
Kaos Eight wrote:
I figured I would post this here to see what other people think. Its how I have been doing business/shooting for nearly a decade and it has always proven to be EXTREMELY effective in delivering GREAT shots. However not all models understand it, some take offense to it, etc.
When I say method acting what I mean is that nothing I shoot is ever "faked". When I have done cutting/blood photos the model was actually into cutting and actually cut herself. However i think the best example is when I did my series of "vulnerable sexuality" photos for my first book. The photos were meant to capture a woman at their most vulnerable point of sexuality (post assault/rape) if you will. No I didn't actually rape the model. What happened was the model drank a bottle of wine before she came over. Then before the shoot took place I threw her around the basement, into walls, onto the floor, smacked her around and degraded her verbally until she was literally in tears, broken, etc. and the photos looked so good because of it. I still get comments on them. Of course again this model was fetish/submissive so it was a unique situation.
With all models i try to find triggers however. Triggers to their emotions, their sexuality, kink, etc. I want to find the sure fire instant gratification approaches to put them in the mindset needed for the particular photo. One of my models has me pull her hair and whisper things to her every few shots. Another model just likes a lot of flirting and light touching. One model used to dissapear out of the room every 10 photos or so to masturbate and then would return. It all depends on the model. I actually once had a model say she needed to watch me jerk off to get in that mind set to which I quickly replied HELL NO and stopped the shoot. (I do have limits and standards) Its not just me doing these things either. I always have my wife (co-shooter) or another female model on set and often times the spare model does the triggering.
I am just curious if anyone else shoots this way. What your experiences have been with it etc, What people's takes are. If any models think this is cool or interesting. wow...
![https://pashaphotonyc.com/MWCpopcorn.gif]()
Model
egyptmachine
Posts: 11365
El Paso, Texas, US
Kaos Eight wrote:
I actually once had a model say she needed to watch me jerk off to get in that mind set to which I quickly replied HELL NO and stopped the shoot. (I do have limits and standards) what.the.fuck.
Model
Ash3
Posts: 5911
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
-Titania- wrote:
I will watch this thread to know who to never work with. Plus fuckin 1.
Between this post, tags I've seen the OP leave other models and the name of his book.
Yeah, fuck no.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Kaos Eight wrote:
I figured I would post this here to see what other people think. Its how I have been doing business/shooting for nearly a decade and it has always proven to be EXTREMELY effective in delivering GREAT shots. However not all models understand it, some take offense to it, etc.
When I say method acting what I mean is that nothing I shoot is ever "faked". When I have done cutting/blood photos the model was actually into cutting and actually cut herself. However i think the best example is when I did my series of "vulnerable sexuality" photos for my first book. The photos were meant to capture a woman at their most vulnerable point of sexuality (post assault/rape) if you will. No I didn't actually rape the model. What happened was the model drank a bottle of wine before she came over. Then before the shoot took place I threw her around the basement, into walls, onto the floor, smacked her around and degraded her verbally until she was literally in tears, broken, etc. and the photos looked so good because of it. I still get comments on them. Of course again this model was fetish/submissive so it was a unique situation.
With all models i try to find triggers however. Triggers to their emotions, their sexuality, kink, etc. I want to find the sure fire instant gratification approaches to put them in the mindset needed for the particular photo. One of my models has me pull her hair and whisper things to her every few shots. Another model just likes a lot of flirting and light touching. One model used to dissapear out of the room every 10 photos or so to masturbate and then would return. It all depends on the model. I actually once had a model say she needed to watch me jerk off to get in that mind set to which I quickly replied HELL NO and stopped the shoot. (I do have limits and standards) Its not just me doing these things either. I always have my wife (co-shooter) or another female model on set and often times the spare model does the triggering.
I am just curious if anyone else shoots this way. What your experiences have been with it etc, What people's takes are. If any models think this is cool or interesting. Well aren't you precious having limits & standards & all.
Would you like to have Christmas dinner at my sisters house?
Model
egyptmachine
Posts: 11365
El Paso, Texas, US
Kaos Eight wrote:
Then before the shoot took place I threw her around the basement, into walls, onto the floor, smacked her around and degraded her verbally until she was literally in tears, broken, etc. and the photos looked so good because of it. I still get comments on them. Of course again this model was fetish/submissive so it was a unique situation. what.the.fuck. part 2
Photographer
Blue Ash Film Group
Posts: 10343
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
My first reaction was "Troll Post", but the OP has been here since April 2009.
Model
Damianne
Posts: 15978
Austin, Texas, US
Photographer
Mosttry
Posts: 1355
Los Angeles, California, US
I'll take the bait. : ) Kaos Eight wrote:
I am just curious if anyone else shoots this way. b/c You asked. : )
No. I would never work in that way.
1) I think it's risky to put anyone in a situation where they're are be thrown against walls. I am not a trained stunt man and I'd don't believe I've ever worked with any models who were also trained stunt people.
2) Colin Powell once referred to war as "failure". He acknowledged that wars would happen and that they might be inevitable. But he judged and named those instances where war war inevitable as "failure"....failure of diplomacy, failure of communication, failure of debate. In other words, he kind of described war as a the product of the failure of all that was good about humans and societies we create. So........ For me, I would consider the idea that I need to even verbally "abuse" (your word) anyone to get a good photo (even a photo that relates to the themes you explore in your work) as a serious failure on my part as a photographer. As a film director and visual artist, I think I can get the same results without those methods. I think you have some good photos. I just don't believe the methods you describe are the only way (or even a smart way) to achieve them. For that reason, I wouldn't want to adopt them.
Kaos Eight wrote:
I am just curious... What people's takes are. as far as my 'take'...
To be clear....Every model you've worked with has (obviously) been a willing participant so my above comments aren't meant to condemn, they're just my explanation as to why your methods don't appeal. In truth...the only actual criticism I have for you is that you would name a series of photos related to rape...or *categorize* ...or *describe* a series of photos related to rape as "vulnerable sexuality". Those words seem completely ignorant and at odds with the reality of what rape is about.
Interesting thread.
EDIT: Heh....Interestingly... I actually wouldn't have a problem with an artist masturbating in front of another artist to acheive...whatever effect it might acheive (though, again, I'm sure it could be done other ways). But it's the idea that a person needs to abuse another person (resulting in tears) to create a work of art that is completely unappealing to me.
Model
EliSleepless
Posts: 109
New York, New York, US
Kaos Eight wrote:
I figured I would post this here to see what other people think. Its how I have been doing business/shooting for nearly a decade and it has always proven to be EXTREMELY effective in delivering GREAT shots. However not all models understand it, some take offense to it, etc.
When I say method acting what I mean is that nothing I shoot is ever "faked". When I have done cutting/blood photos the model was actually into cutting and actually cut herself. However i think the best example is when I did my series of "vulnerable sexuality" photos for my first book. The photos were meant to capture a woman at their most vulnerable point of sexuality (post assault/rape) if you will. No I didn't actually rape the model. What happened was the model drank a bottle of wine before she came over. Then before the shoot took place I threw her around the basement, into walls, onto the floor, smacked her around and degraded her verbally until she was literally in tears, broken, etc. and the photos looked so good because of it. I still get comments on them. Of course again this model was fetish/submissive so it was a unique situation.
With all models i try to find triggers however. Triggers to their emotions, their sexuality, kink, etc. I want to find the sure fire instant gratification approaches to put them in the mindset needed for the particular photo. One of my models has me pull her hair and whisper things to her every few shots. Another model just likes a lot of flirting and light touching. One model used to dissapear out of the room every 10 photos or so to masturbate and then would return. It all depends on the model. I actually once had a model say she needed to watch me jerk off to get in that mind set to which I quickly replied HELL NO and stopped the shoot. (I do have limits and standards) Its not just me doing these things either. I always have my wife (co-shooter) or another female model on set and often times the spare model does the triggering.
I am just curious if anyone else shoots this way. What your experiences have been with it etc, What people's takes are. If any models think this is cool or interesting. The thing that bothers me about this is that you felt you had to clarify you didn't rape the model.
I had a photographer message me on here asking if I'd like to do a fetish shoot. I asked what he had in mind and felt pretty annoyed that he thought I had too many limits. He replied that he'd had models cut themselves, gag themselves, and masturbate..for trade shoots. O_O
Anyway, personally I feel it's strange if the photographer is also the one modeling or being that closely involved (unless it involves ropework) in fetish shoots. It just doesn't feel professional to me, and I wouldn't be comfortable with it. However, I know that on several fetish sites it can work that way. Just...don't expect for every model or photographer to be comfortable or agree with your style of shooting. Be very, very honest and specific with your models beforehand. There are some models that will say yes because they are into that lifestyle, but think about the models that aren't into that and don't approach them for shoots. Maybe your best bet is finding a photography site that features what you shoot, or a fetish site (like Fetlife) that has options for photographers.
Photographer
Studio MD - Casting
Posts: 1227
Los Angeles, California, US
Sorry... but where the fuck are these "amazing" photos? I didn't see anything in your portfolio that suggested you were successful with this style of art direction. Do you have a link to show the results of your art direction or did you just make this up? Here's the thing, I've shot with a ton of fashion models. 99.99% of their shoots they're expected to look relaxed, strong, casual, powerful, glamorous, sensual, expensive, happy, excited, emotionless, etc... so, when I do art-fashion editorials, I run in to a snag because they're usually not trained or experienced on projecting negative human emotions. But I simly ask the models "Can you act out a role? you'll look like shit in a good way... and people will love the image!" They usually say "yes!' and then I direct them "Pretend to cry." I don't throw them around the room, bash them in the skull and tell them they're buckets of shit. Why? Because they're models, not trash. Also, they'e not trained professional actors experienced with method acting. I'm not going to turn a model in to an actress over night (fact is - MANY fashion models in NY are now taking acting classes since they're required to act more and more... but there is a HUGE gap between those student actresses/models and a full time model) Anyway - you want people to cry? I'll show you a simpler way that works great. Here are two examples. These two shots required crying for the story (links included to full stories): ![https://imagesgonerogue.com/images/2011/8/2/vision13.jpg]() http://fashiongonerogue.com/lua-karo-me … ion-china/ ![https://imagesgonerogue.com/images/ama/fgr/2011/1/5/donovan12.jpg]() http://fashiongonerogue.com/jana-wirth- … an-vision/ You know how I did it? I said "Hey! Can you cry?!" Both models said "I can try!" That's all. They tried. I shot what I needed to get the shots that made the story. Honestly, I wouldn't be as disturbed with this thread if I saw some AMAZING photos in your portfolio as examples of how this was a success. But I don't see them so it makes me think "What's going on in this guys head that he sees this as a success to glorify?" But to each their own.
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 33877
Arcata, California, US
Kaos Eight wrote:
When I say method acting what I mean is that nothing I shoot is ever "faked". Ummm, okay.
No I didn't actually rape the model. Either that statement is bullshit or the first statement is.
What happened was the model drank a bottle of wine before she came over. Then before the shoot took place I threw her around the basement, into walls, onto the floor, smacked her around and degraded her verbally until she was literally in tears, broken, etc. and the photos looked so good because of it. You take "GWC" to a whole new low. Most GWCs just do photography so they can see chicks naked. You do it so you can beat the crap out of them.
One model used to dissapear out of the room every 10 photos or so to masturbate and then would return. It all depends on the model. I actually once had a model say she needed to watch me jerk off to get in that mind set to which I quickly replied HELL NO and stopped the shoot. (I do have limits and standards) That's so very nice that you've got limits. 
I am just curious if anyone else shoots this way. I hope not.
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 35726
Los Angeles, California, US
Method acting is an actor's chosen process -- or it is not their chosen process.
Directors don't tell actors that today they are going to be method actors.
As a director I don't dictate process to the actor. That's their job. If their process is method acting then I can roll with that, but if it's not then I'll smack them around until it is.
Photographer
highStrangeness
Posts: 2485
Carmichael, California, US
Wow. This is a very effective troll thread!
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 33877
Arcata, California, US
Cherrystone wrote:
Would you like to have Christmas dinner at my sisters house? Hopefully your sister is Laila Ali.
![https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VpjhJz0waWo/TcncchT8JYI/AAAAAAAAI8o/5TRtasPW_i8/s1600/laila%2Bali.jpg]()
Model
Rebecca Emma
Posts: 855
New York, New York, US
These were done with a cup of water outside the view of the camera and simply the theme that we decided on... I don't understand why verbally or physically abusing someone would ever be necessary. ![https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/101223/10/4d13954b71381.jpg]() ![https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110207/12/4d505a1f88ce0.jpg]()
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3265
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
It sounds to me that photography is a secondary consideration next to your apprent need to physically dominate women...
I don't mean that in a good way.
When we speak of a good model's ability to 'emote' we don't always mean in a positive way. I often ask a subject to think of something that puts them in the right frame of mind, but physical assault?
I think maybe you should consider some form of psychiatric treatment.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Orca Bay Images wrote:
Hopefully your sister is Laila Ali.
![https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VpjhJz0waWo/TcncchT8JYI/AAAAAAAAI8o/5TRtasPW_i8/s1600/laila%2Bali.jpg]() 
Model
VeronicaValentyne
Posts: 88
Wilton, New Hampshire, US
I see that baited hook, and that writhing worm, so juicy.....but I pass.
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 33877
Arcata, California, US
Rebecca Emma wrote:
I don't understand why verbally or physically abusing someone would ever be necessary. It's not. Maybe the OP considers it a fun fringe benefit.
Granted, I'd not complain if the shoot was a recreation of the set of "Deep Throat" and the model was a total method actor. But beating the shit out of a model just to achieve gritty verisimility? A bit of a stretch, IMO.
And the OP's wife is involved? I think I saw a marriage like that in an episode of "Criminal Minds."
Photographer
ME_
Posts: 3152
Atlanta, Georgia, US
You really don't understand Method acting at all.
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18763
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium
first of all, that's not method acting  secondly, you go and look for models that actually want to be treated that way, so I don't see the point. I don't work like that, nor do I want to. ever.
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5214
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
I find it odd that not a single model in his port has been 'Credited'.
According to the OP, everybody was consenting, everybody was involved in creating 'art', but nobody wanted or got credited. Strange huh.
Model
Tansy Blue
Posts: 318
Brighton, England, United Kingdom
And here was I thinking that "method acting" generally referred to Stanislavski's method of remembering past experiences. It sounds like the OP's style is closer to photographing play sessions rather than carrying out a traditional photoshoot. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as everyone involved has given informed consent, a safeword/gesture is in place, and appropriate aftercare is provided. A photographer working in a similar way is SingleChair: https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/1191006/viewall (If something looks like it's happening, it probably is.)
Model
J O A N N E
Posts: 2362
Derby, England, United Kingdom
In before this becomes a fucking train wreck and locked.
Photographer
Jeff Fiore
Posts: 9225
Brooklyn, New York, US
Tansy Blue wrote:
And here was I thinking that "method acting" generally referred to Stanislavski's method of remembering past experiences. When I want emotions from a model I have them "feel" the emotion. I don't think it is necessary for me to help them "feel" an emotion.
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 3588
Ashford, England, United Kingdom
Peter Schroeder wrote:
sick fuck Yeah.
Photographer
Peter Schroeder
Posts: 3453
New York, New York, US
RKD Photographic wrote:
I think maybe you should GET some form of psychiatric treatment.
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 4288
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica
This is awesome. I see a whole new line of forum threads replacing those silly "escort" threads. My guess is the titles will be something like:
"Is it okay if I bring an entire fucking police squad with me when I shoot?"
or an announcement like this:
"I always shoot with a full team: a full team of football players that is, and I give them an overload of 'roids the morning of our session."
EDIT: I realized that I was threadjacking a bit and apologize. My thoughts are that if that is what you wish to do to get the shots you need, then go for it.
In the interest of 'artistic purity,' which is something you appear to be deeply interested in, you should place your portfolio in the 'serious critique' section of the 'General feedback' forum so people can let you know if you're "hitting the mark" (no pun intended)...
Photographer
Peter Schroeder
Posts: 3453
New York, New York, US
Maria Michaela wrote:
first of all, that's not method acting correct, it is NOT method acting.
the thread title is nothing more than sick-twisted-bait intended to only to lure and should have been titled
"The Sadistic Narcissistic Approach".
sick fuck
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18763
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium
Peter Schroeder wrote:
correct, it is NOT method acting.
the thread title is nothing more than sick-twisted-bait intended to only to lure and should have been titled
"The Sadistic Narcissistic Approach".
sick fuck well, what people do in their own spare time, that's up to them. some people have more ehm non-conventional sexual preferences. the OP seems to get a kick out of degrading and abusing women, which is fine, if that's his thing and he does it with women who like it and consent to it, but to pretend it's a method to get better pictures is just pervy and sick.
go do that in your bedroom (or basement or rooftop for all I care), please don't pretend it has anything to do with photography.
Model
Rebecca Emma
Posts: 855
New York, New York, US
Maria Michaela wrote:
well, what people do in their own spare time, that's up to them. some people have more ehm non-conventional sexual preferences. the OP seems to get a kick out of degrading and abusing women, which is fine, if that's his thing and some women like it, but to pretend it's a method to get better pictures is just pervy and sick.
go do that in your bedroom (or basement or rooftop for all I care), please don't pretend it has anything to do with photography. ^^yes
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