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Transsexual/ Gender Non-Conforming models
Shon D.- Homme wrote: Quite the contrary...you chose to try to silence Isaiah's opinion while he was simply looking for clarification. He asked a question and was attacked. It was uncalled for and is one of the reasons these forums continue to evolve into a feud over nothing instead of intellectual discussions. I'm simply stating that it's sad, and you're choosing to silence me. I've had my say now, so I'll take my bat and ball and leave this for you to belittle. Obviously your opinion is far more relevant than mine. Jul 26 12 10:50 pm Link MichelleGenevieve wrote: Absolutely! The time for intolerance for transgender models must cease. Just because one may not agree with how they choose to live does not mean they are bad, evil people. Jul 27 12 12:03 am Link JansuModel wrote: I was just pulling your legs. :-) Jul 27 12 01:47 am Link KWDPhoto wrote: PEACE OUT! Jul 27 12 07:36 am Link DRImages wrote: Quick question because I'm curious, and I haven't run into a whole lot of transgendered people, some, just not a lot and would like some more input from preferably transgendered people themselves. Ok, I know there tends to be a difference between pre and post operation transgendered people. If you are post op, then, can't you put down your post op gender on the applications for employment and not say anything regarding your previous gender, without fear of being discharged for lying on your application because you are not. I know there is a lot of intolerance with regards to transgendered people in society. Here in the photo modeling, I'm sure it still exists, we are after all, still human with human fallacies. Pre op transgendered people I believe would have a bit more difficult time with the application process at least with the gender portion, along with the intolerance. Jul 27 12 10:50 am Link It's reasons like that why I, and many other people, wished MM had the option for llamas to choose transgendered as their sex. That way some won't feel as if they are lying, and it would be easy for photographers looking for TG llamas to find them/or avoid them (whatever the case may be) Jul 28 12 12:15 am Link Isaiah Brink wrote: That largely depends on your state (or country.) But you can read a lot about it online. Here is a great place to start: Jul 28 12 10:15 am Link transsexuality is an interim state between one gender and the other. For some such place fulfills and provides identity of another kind. Although it can be a destination, for some it simply means being in the state of condition compared to cancer of the gender, sickness and state of discomfort, hence the term Dysphoria! For those individuals, the only cure available to alleviate the pain and sorrow of living in the wrong body, is to transition. Once complete, such individual becomes who he/she always were, despite previous incongruity of body and mind. Transsexuality by medical standards is curable, that is, for those who desire it! Jul 29 12 06:50 am Link Andrej Pejic is the reason I've stopped being so self destructive and have embraced my look. Jul 31 12 02:59 am Link Logan Heath Wolfrhamn wrote: This just made me smile. I'm so happy to hear this. Jul 31 12 07:14 am Link Shon D.- Homme wrote: Same here. Logan you've got it figured out! You just be you, and be the best you there ever was! Jul 31 12 07:22 am Link Shon D.- Homme wrote: Sorry Shon, but Wikipedia is always a horrible place to start, it's a user defined encyclopedia. I could create an entry for you that says that you are a "purple people eater." And well, you're not lol. When it comes to law, I'd like to see something at least from a law firm or a federal website or state website. Sorry, I don't play those games, yes, I call wiki a game when it comes to laws. Too many people get stuff absolutely wrong there. Jul 31 12 09:47 am Link Isaiah Brink wrote: The sheer irony is the article you panned without even reading is probably the most informative one on the internet regarding this subject. If nothing else it links to about 50 other resources. Your scholarship is amazing. Jul 31 12 09:57 am Link Isaiah Brink wrote: Then google it for your-goddamn-self. Logan Heath Wolfrhamn wrote: THAT is why. Jul 31 12 11:16 am Link Untitled Photographer wrote: Exactly. But we already know that bigots don't care about facts. Jul 31 12 11:17 am Link On a more positive note... I recently did the hair & makeup for a shoot based in androgyny with an amazing model, Van, who is incidentally super sweet besides being beautiful and one of the most naturally gifted photographers, Jiamin. Van was born male, has lived as both female and male, and dressed as both for our shoot. He is my avatar; there are more photos of him on my page. Jul 31 12 04:48 pm Link I'm going to give benefit of the doubt and put this down to ignorance... Whilst the people who are positively talking about non-gender-conforming models, and looks and tastes are making sense, when someone who doesn't seem to really respect the right of the trans-community to have their own spaces within modelling spaces to celebrate their bodies and promote queer-identified and non-conforming models, it irks me to hear certain terms conflated. This is going to be a big rant. Please correct me if I'm wrong or say the wrong thing. I wanted to do a 101 on terminology because it might explain why the impression left has been so hard-felt by some. Transgender - Someone who has, for as long as they can remember, known inside that they are the opposite gender to what they are expected to be, based on their biological sex, and wishes to express that gender, to different levels. Trans-sexual - Someone who feels like the above, but for whom physical body feels wrong and feels the need to take hormones, have SRS or otherwise do everything they can for their body to match how they feel inside. Cis-gender - Someone who has no problems identifying as the gender and sex which their body has always shown. Many gender-queer people will still have the privileges of being cis-gendered. Gender-Queer - Anybody who feels a gender disorientation from their biological sex, who may feel male or female, or both, or neither, somewhere else on the scale, or different from one day to the next. They may or may not choose to present a normative gender, feel displacement from their bodies, or 'come out' in any way or form. THIS IS NOT SEXUAL. THIS IS NOT PREFERENCE. NOT A LIFESTYLE. THIS IS NOT FETISH. (IN ITSELF) THIS IS IDENTITY. Lesbian/Gay/Bisexual - Sexuality. Also identity, and not a lifestyle, choice, or fetish, though some people may have a related fetish, like for faux-lesbianism. Kink/Fetish - Pretty much every aspect of sexuality under the Sun. Usually associated with BDSM types. It isn't in itself to do with romantic involvement. Some people may have a fetish for bodies which are non-conforming, but this is somewhat in an objectified form. There is nothing wrong with that, but most Transgendered people don't date 'chasers' by choice. It isn't the same as dating pansexuals. Pansexual - Attracted to all kinds of bodies, or more importantly, attracted to the mind. Whilst a bi-sexual may like both men and women, a pansexual may like anybody in between. A bi-sexual woman may like 'feminine' women and 'masculine' men. For pansexuals this is irrelevant. ou don't become pansexual just because you date someone transgendered. Asexuals - Not sexual people. Also an identity. Up for grabs whether it's a sexuality. They just are. Still isn't a lifestyle, but there are aspects. Some will have sex for the body stimulation and others are grossed out by it and others don't care. Some aren't sexual but they are romantic and have partners, and others are weirded out by that too. Queer - All of the above and more! This includes people in different types of relationships, such as in polyamorous set ups and swingers, which may be described as lifestyle or fetish, plus anybody who does not fit into any of the expected boxes of gender and sexuality. They may be gay but find the term limiting. It is a term which can represent most people, but is an active defiance of the expectations just switching from being cis-gendered only, to having to pick from the gender binary, or going from straight into the gay or bi box. Probably don't use this word if you don't understand it's usage. Transvestite - Someone for whom dressing up in the other gender's clothes is a fetish and who are otherwise cis-gendered, though could be described as queer depending on how important their fetish is to their sexuality and identity. Cross-Dresser - Someone who dresses up in clothes associated with another gender. It may just be a preference of aesthetics and comfort, or it may form part of their gender identity. Either way, they can dress either way and may or may not take on other forms of gender presentation to appear the gender they are dressed as. Much more associated with lifestyle. Drag Queen - Someone who does the above to present as an exaggerated version of the other gender for entertainment and creative expression. This is lifestyle. This is an aesthetic. Butch/Femme - People who take on certain roles and appearances associated with one sex or the other, often expected of those in same-sex relationships. It's a choice and preference, but also their identity. They can't just change from changing clothes and mannerisms. It isn't an act, though some aspects are often to send signals to other gays and lesbians. Androgynous/non-gender-conforming Aesthetically - This is a look which defies gender norms, or in which you cannot tell the gender or sex of the person in that appearance., a fashion, bone structure, photo opportunity, a work of art. (SOME andrgynous models may also identify as androgynous as a gender also.) My preference is boyish androgynous in both men and women (and anybody else) Naturist - People who wear nothing because they feel like it for no sexual or gendered reason, but that they like it and that it's natural and they love their bodies. THAT, IS A LIFESTYLE CHOICE! When you start asking people talking about their gender identity why they aren't posting about themselves, their bodies and their minds on fetish and lifestyle websites you completely miss the point! It may come into it or it may not, but equating who someone is with a sexual fetish is pretty insulting! There are a lot of aspects to being transgendered, and some people won't identify as transgendered. They will identify as women or men. You have said that to a photographer their subject's gender shouldn't really matter, and that's right, it shouldn't, it's about the aesthetics, but to the model we are talking about their bodies and who they are. That is going to be a huge part of their experience as a model and as a person. It is going to affect what they can wear and how they wear it, how people respond to them as sexual beings or as attractive people, and the types of discrimination they face, so yes, there will be threads on being transgendered, unless you particularly want to discuss penis-packing for lingerie shots and body wrapping techniques, and whether prosthetics or hormones or nothing look better on an androgynous body, and whether they felt weird as hell choosing a gender for their account on MM. Yes this thread was just about drawing attention to and raising awareness of models who do not gender-conform, whose gender identity we may not know, but who we can be inspired by and aspire to achieve the like of regardless of gender and sex. When a transgendered model is having doubts that they will ever be attractive then they can look at some absolutely stunning models who show that not only can it be done, but that they are very popular, gorgeous and not all that rare. Building a community can be important for minority groups. Obviously the OP and some others are very understanding, and I commend them for that, some people are more sensitive than others, and people wont all share the same perspective as I do on the subject, and trans-activists I know, but there are reasons why derailing a topic about a minority group into asking why they should have more than a tiny space to discuss everything is rude. It's like gate-crashing a party only to ask them why they're playing obscure music that nobody's heard of, then accuse them of having closed-minded taste when they ask you to leave their house! They did leave the front door open, and would have let you enjoy the party if you came to be part of it, but you demanded to be at the centre of it and change the direction of it. Aug 01 12 03:51 pm Link Also, don't assume that you haven't ran into many transgendered people. You wouldn't necessarily know. And some of them will still present as their assigned sex because you get so much shit for being transgendered and it takes a while to work out!  Aug 01 12 03:54 pm Link Also, personally, I love this album on facebook. Few too many Andro-women for the page title (implying gender queerness, rather than fashion) but it has beautiful people on it and some crazy and inspiring stuff!  [EDITED TO ADD THE LINK! - WHOPS!] https://www.facebook.com/genderanarchy Aug 01 12 04:23 pm Link Laurel Lee wrote: Excellent point! And I know for a fact there are quite a few models on MM who are transgender and have simply chosen not to out themselves. Aug 01 12 08:39 pm Link Laurel Lee wrote: Everything about you is amazing. Aug 02 12 06:25 am Link Aug 02 12 03:07 pm Link I respect and admire everyone who lives their life as they feel inside, without conforming to others' expectations. Breaking social norms on daily basis is much, much, MUCH more difficult than everyone thinks. I'm gay and receive more than enough judgment and prejudice as a result. I can't imagine the scrutiny that the transgendered community faces, since they face even more opposition and less understanding. To answer the question of why so much interest in transgendered models, I think a few different things come into play . . . . First, they are "different." Anything "different" and "exotic" will draw attention, whether it's positive or negative. It defies expectations, which catches attention and makes people talk. . . . this is probably even more so in fashion, where boundaries are constantly being pushed and being "different" is seen more positively than in many other fields. Second, it's about identifying with someone. Why do plus size models make posts about plus size editorials? Same could be said for African American models. People naturally see something of themselves in people with whom they believe they share similarities. When you face daily oppression and judgment solely for living your life authentically and honestly, it must be inspirational to see someone with your same struggles succeeding. Aug 02 12 04:20 pm Link fstoppers has a pretty cool piece on NYC based photographer Leland Bobbé and his "not only gender but mind bending series, Half-Drag." "Leland attempts to capture men with their female alter egos at the same time and in camera." http://fstoppers.com/photographing-men-in-half-drag Aug 06 12 11:48 am Link MM Edu wrote: The world is small....Leland Bobbe was one of the first photographers I ever shot with...it's awesome seeing his project do so well. Aug 06 12 12:09 pm Link Loves it. Aug 07 12 07:13 am Link Shon D.- Homme wrote: Isaiah Brink wrote: Then google it for your-goddamn-self. In this case, I believe that you may be looking in the preverbal mirror. If you're transgendered or transvestite, how have you been discriminated against? Sine its somewhat on topic, I"m asking for people's experiences in this industry. It seems you're too busy making personal attacks, while I have not. Aug 07 12 02:43 pm Link Isaiah Brink wrote: I was too busy answering your questions directly and correcting your need to silence a minority group. YOU were too busy not giving a fuck about the answers given and continuing to marginalize an oppressed group that you felt didn't deserve so much attention. Aug 08 12 06:01 am Link Isaiah Brink wrote: Oh, please! This is getting dangerously close to that "Well, if you're so supportive then you must be one too!" nonsense that always seems to be the last attempt to support an insupportable generalization. Aug 08 12 06:20 am Link Laurel Lee wrote: GORGEOUS! Aug 08 12 07:12 am Link Girls will be boys and boys will be girls. Does it really matter the gender or the quality and content of their work? I totally support this movement! Breaking barriers and a little forward thinking is going a long way in today's world. Judge these models for the work they display not anything else... Aug 08 12 07:21 am Link Andie deRoux wrote: Long time ago i see nice shot from Parker Simon Kennith (#2142578) (1) but him define himself on his profile as androgynous and don't as transgender so i don't sure if him is a correct example. Andie deRoux wrote: I think is good because this mean that exist sufficient freedom. Aug 08 12 07:31 am Link I'm really glad you enjoy seeing such people being accept and taken further. It really is rare to see and when people mention anything of the sort, it always turns into a debate and not usually a good one. I am gay, and i dress like a boy. But i love being a woman. I barely started modeling 2 months ago and so far have made a huge impression in my state, but i could only wish to be as successful as the models you listed.  I think the hardest part, as it also seems throughout this post, is this type of modeling is rare/unique. People are scared to try out such things. People are scared of change, but by now you think they'd just accept it. Aug 11 12 02:42 am Link Michele Belle wrote: Thank you. Aug 11 12 02:43 am Link Isaiah Brink wrote: The model who posted is a trans model, so it's very relevant to her industry experience- she's after role models to help her work on her craft. As for why it's coming up more- it must be more relevant. This is a self organising system to a large degree, so trying to control it seems a little naive. Aug 15 12 09:37 pm Link Shon D.- Homme wrote: I saw your venus as a boy shoot- very lovely. I was very impressed Aug 15 12 09:37 pm Link I don't think it really matters in the industry. At the end of the day, I don't care if you have 2 genders, or no gender. If you have a kicking set of cheek bones (Isis King, Tula Cosse, Roberta Close), I'm going to want to shoot you. I don't believe that someone should be considered, or consider themselves as a model simply because they carry a title over their head. You're right though. It's nice to see the world's growing up. Aug 15 12 11:32 pm Link It's the sort of quarrelsomeness and drama like this that may convince some to stay away from transgendered models. In particular, it makes LGBT people look defensive. I'm not attacking anyone, either. I'm just trying to say this as an autistic. Aug 16 12 12:17 am Link aspergianLens wrote: Defense wouldn't be required were there no offense. Aug 16 12 12:14 pm Link Mythical Ink wrote: Thank you so much! Aug 16 12 12:14 pm Link |
