Photographer
poiuy
Posts: 283
London, England, United Kingdom
Rollo David Snook wrote:
It costs £12.50 to rent a credit card machine in the UK per month. Go figure. Indeed!
+ transaction charges of course
Photographer
poiuy
Posts: 283
London, England, United Kingdom
Rollo David Snook wrote:
It costs £12.50 to rent a credit card machine in the UK per month. Go figure. Tongue pressed in check!
Isn't £12.50 the day editorial rate for a photographer these days?
Photographer
Darryl Varner
Posts: 725
Burlington, Iowa, US
Whatever's most convenient for the client.
Makeup Artist
Danielle Blazer
Posts: 846
Los Angeles, California, US
KJ Bennett Beauty wrote:
This situation is exactly why you need to use Deal Memos. Everything about the job is there in writing (including preferred payment terms) before you arrive.
And for those of you that haven't joined the 21st Century -
There are devices available, like Square, that allow you to take credit card charges on your iPhone, Android or iPad. +1
Always a deal memo, invoice...I occasionally (but rarely) will be paid in cash by a bridal client, but usually it's by check before or after the job, depending on who the client is.
Body Painter
Lisa Berczel
Posts: 4132
New Castle, Pennsylvania, US
Darryl Varner wrote:
Whatever's most convenient for the client. Unfortunately, I've had more than one Event Client who's most convenient payment method was NONE.
So, depending on the project, payment will be specified by what's safest for ME.
If that's a deal-breaker for the Client, they're more than welcome to move along to another body painter.
Photographer
poiuy
Posts: 283
London, England, United Kingdom
Lisa Berczel wrote:
Unfortunately, I've had more than one Event Client who's most convenient payment method was NONE.
So, depending on the project, payment will be specified by what's safest for ME.
If that's a deal-breaker for the Client, they're more than welcome to move along to another body painter. Exactly the point!
Makeup Artist
KJB
Posts: 1184
New York, New York, US
Aaliyah I wrote:
Unfortunately square isn't available in the UK and I haven't heard of any UK versions being made yet but I'll keep a eye out for them as they look like real handy ! PayPal offers a credit card reader for the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17397342
And so does iZettle:
http://www.izettle.com
Paypal also has a scanning app for smartphones that lets you take credit card payments.
No more excuses - let's all embrace technology and get our MONEY!
Model
Marketa Fei
Posts: 401
Berkeley, California, US
I don't know about iZettle, but paypal has not traditionally been a safe way for people to "GET OUR MONEY."
Photographer
poiuy
Posts: 283
London, England, United Kingdom
KJ Bennett Beauty wrote:
PayPal offers a credit card reader for the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17397342
And so does iZettle:
http://www.izettle.com
Paypal also has a scanning app for smartphones that lets you take credit card payments.
No more excuses - let's all embrace technology and get our MONEY! No more excuses to giving banks more money! Again cutting the margins of the self employed it's all great if you hold shares in paypal or another electronic money transfer system!
I'm all in favor of a paperless system. As long as if I bill for a £100 then I get a £100 with paypal and other bank charges I get £90ish who pays for that no one other than me. My rates may go up but the budget does not it is the budget take it of leave it.
Photographer
poiuy
Posts: 283
London, England, United Kingdom
Marketa Fei wrote:
I don't know about iZettle, but paypal has not traditionally been a safe way for people to "GET OUR MONEY." Yes indeed paypal is not as safe as they would like you to believe
Makeup Artist
KJB
Posts: 1184
New York, New York, US
Makeup Artist
KJB
Posts: 1184
New York, New York, US
Andrew Little wrote:
No more excuses to giving banks more money! Again cutting the margins of the self employed it's all great if you hold shares in paypal or another electronic money transfer system!
I'm all in favor of a paperless system. As long as if I bill for a £100 then I get a £100 with paypal and other bank charges I get £90ish who pays for that no one other than me. My rates may go up but the budget does not it is the budget take it of leave it. I gave credible alternatives to get your money on-site, but it wouldn't be MM if people didn't find a reason to complain about that too.
You guys make me laugh.
Photographer
rdallasPhotography
Posts: 967
CHADDS FORD, Pennsylvania, US
Heather J M wrote:
Andrew - I'm not picking a fight with you. I attempted to explain to the OP what the designer's issue was. You are not actually responding to the post I am writing, you are determined to prove me wrong. And you won't because I'm not.
Here in little simple words so that misunderstanding me is going to be a bigger effort:
Payment made by cheque or bank transfer creates a paper trail. This is to protect the person paying, not to protect the OP. If they pay in cash, with no receipt (an invoice is a demand not an acknowledgment) what is to protect them should she present for payment a second time?
The attitude of many, rightly or wrongly, is that cash is requested by persons who are not declaring to the revenue. While it is outside her remit, this designer is possibly unsettled by this and has made her feelings known. This may not be the case, I mentioned it as a possible explanation for the charge of unprofessionalism.
Asking for cash without the mechanism of a receipt (paper trail for the person paying, not receiving) puts the client in an awkward position of having to refuse - I would not like this either. An invoice here does nothing to protect.
Someone being personally sued for payment through the courts has more at stake as their credit rating is more likely to be important to them.
Limited companies which on the surface seem far more safe, are actually not as they can declare bankruptcy with impunity.
A single person is unlikely to declare bankruptcy as it would involve losing their salable possessions including house and car so is more likely to pay the small sums involved in a makeup artist fee to prevent this.
On a tangent but still relevant I feel - why did you make the effort to criticise what was on my part a helpful effort to shed light on the situation that has led to this thread at all? You haven't countered my points with actual fact, just scoffed from the sidelines. Nowhere have I suggested that Aaliyah is operating outside the law. Just that asking for cash does have this as a possible inference. What was it I wonder, that you found so personally offensive that you even bothered? It's funny, I have only paid in cash and never asked for (and was never offered) a receipt. The only thing I'd have is the model release as "proof" I compensated her although I know that has no legal leg to stand on!  Surprisingly. I just never really gave it thought.
Body Painter
Lisa Berczel
Posts: 4132
New Castle, Pennsylvania, US
KJ Bennett Beauty wrote:
There are devices available, like Square, that allow you to take credit card charges on your iPhone, Android or iPad. Square is easy to use and has lower fees.... we've replaced Paypal with Square for when we distribute at trade shows.
My husband takes a cell phone picture of the purchase and attaches it electronically to the e-receipt.
(US market...)
Photographer
poiuy
Posts: 283
London, England, United Kingdom
KJ Bennett Beauty wrote:
I gave credible alternatives to get your money on-site, but it wouldn't be MM if people didn't find a reason to complain about that too.
You guys make me laugh. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
I didn't say it wasn't credible. I just mentioned the cost factor!
Photographer
rdallasPhotography
Posts: 967
CHADDS FORD, Pennsylvania, US
KJ Bennett Beauty wrote:
PayPal not safe, really?
http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/paypal.com/summary/ The link you provided shows that the PayPal site is safe meaning it doesn't compromise someone visiting that site. (No questionable download to your drive) But there are other things to consider...for example, how well is the data protected? I've never had or heard of issues with PayPal but a safe site doesn't necessarily mean a safe operation. But again, I use it quite often without problems.
Makeup Artist
Heather J M
Posts: 719
London, England, United Kingdom
I thought the issue with paypal (certainly in connection with ebay anyway) was that the dispute system often does only a cursory investigation and often seems to arbitrarily decide who was right so in theory a photographer who provided a nude shoot for example, could later have the model get cold feet and get her money back?
The smartphone credit card payment systems look very interesting - but I find here in the UK that I don't even get asked if I take card. We are all fairly used to working around cards and most of us do bank transfers online instead I think - I've even had bridal clients bounce over to a computer and pay me before I have left.
I did wonder though Aaliyah - you do say that the payment terms is on the invoice, but are you giving the clients the invoice in advance to indicate that you will require cash? Because in my experience people really don't carry enough cash to pay the average daily rate on the off chance.
Photographer
Stecyk
Posts: 365
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Makeup Artist
Aaliyah Oke
Posts: 226
London, England, United Kingdom
Heather J M wrote:
I thought the issue with paypal (certainly in connection with ebay anyway) was that the dispute system often does only a cursory investigation and often seems to arbitrarily decide who was right so in theory a photographer who provided a nude shoot for example, could later have the model get cold feet and get her money back?
The smartphone credit card payment systems look very interesting - but I find here in the UK that I don't even get asked if I take card. We are all fairly used to working around cards and most of us do bank transfers online instead I think - I've even had bridal clients bounce over to a computer and pay me before I have left.
I did wonder though Aaliyah - you do say that the payment terms is on the invoice, but are you giving the clients the invoice in advance to indicate that you will require cash? Because in my experience people really don't carry enough cash to pay the average daily rate on the off chance. As I said earlier I get all the details out of the way before I even confirm my attendance for the shoot. I tell them to pay by cash in discussion and it's also on my invoice so they know well ahead in advance. Yeah , I don't know many people that carry my rates worth of cash quid on them...especially in London.
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
Aaliyah I wrote:
As I said earlier I get all the details out of the way before I even confirm my attendance for the shoot. I tell them to pay by cash in discussion and it's also on my invoice so they know well ahead in advance. Yeah , I don't know many people that carry my rates worth of cash quid on them...especially in London. We're an established business - and like most businesses, we pay our vendors by corporate check. That includes, models, artists, stylists, etc. If I was intending to contract for your services and you demanded to be paid in cash, you'd quickly be out of a contract and I'd be picking up the phone to someone else. Companies, even principles, don't typically keep that kind of money in petty cash, and they don't pay vendors off the books.
Model
Mady_Model
Posts: 6
Douglas, Georgia, US
In God we trust, all others cash or prior arrangements. My dad handles all of my dealings, but I know he tells the client payment is due at time of services. With photographers we have dealt with before he accepts checks, all first time shoots he asks they bring cash for payment. Sometimes the photographer will right a check, I endorse it and hand it back and they give me cash. That gives them a paper trail and I don't have to worry about the money. Just my $.02 on the subject.
Makeup Artist
KJB
Posts: 1184
New York, New York, US
I can't remember the last time I was paid in cash.
As a business, it's important for me to have a paper trail and documents to support any possible disputes.
Once a booking is worked out, I send a deal memo that outlines everything we've discussed - including rates and terms.
As soon as the deal memo is accepted by the client, a w9 form (with my federal ID #) and an invoice for a 50% non-refundable retainer is sent, which is due upon receipt.
Of course there are exceptions with established clients, because sometimes there is a legitimate reason to reschedule. But even my regular clients have no complaint paying the penalty if they cancel at the last minute.
The balance and any other additional charges (T&E, OT, special products) are invoiced the day after the shoot at Net15.
I'm not suggesting that this is the best procedure for everyone, but I thought it might be helpful to some.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Expecting to be paid in cash when you're working with an individual is perfectly acceptable...assuming it's been discussed and agreed to prior to the project.
It's a little tacky to expect that when working with a real client. Most reputable companies aren't going to make payment in cash. They're either going to accept your invoice and pass it on to finance/comptroller, etc. I've never expected payment directly from an Art Director or corporate client. To ask them for cash at the shoot would be seen as highly unprofessional and small-time.
It certainly depends on the shoot and the client. But if it's a client that will be cutting a check, you're not going to get cash and you're not going to even get paid at the time of the shoot. Your invoice should specify payment terms - Net 30, Due Upon Receipt (which just means they pay the invoice when they get it).
I've never once been paid in cash.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
KJ Bennett Beauty wrote:
I can't remember the last time I was paid in cash.
As a business, it's important for me to have a paper trail and documents to support any possible disputes.
Once a booking is worked out, I send a deal memo that outlines everything we've discussed - including rates and terms.
As soon as the deal memo is accepted by the client, a w9 form (with my federal ID #) and an invoice for a 50% non-refundable retainer is sent, which is due upon receipt.
Of course there are exceptions with established clients, because sometimes there is a legitimate reason to reschedule. But even my regular clients have no complaint paying the penalty if they cancel at the last minute.
The balance and any other additional charges (T&E, OT, special products) are invoiced the day after the shoot at Net15.
I'm not suggesting that this is the best procedure for everyone, but I thought it might be helpful to some. +1. This is how a professional works. Payment Terms can be whatever the OP prefers but cash at the time of the shoot is not an option with a real client.
Makeup Artist
M M I
Posts: 472
New York, New York, US
The only times I've ever been paid in cash (by a normal, commercial client) were:
1: pre-agreed on, in a deal memo.
2: with a client from out of the country, as it's far too easy to leave the US without paying and legal recourse is incredibly difficult once they've gone.
Other than that, I would never expect to get paid in cash without some previous agreement.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8093
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
I've had several clients bounce checks on me an it's usually the ones that surprise you the most that do. I'm fine with taking a check 30 days out for a retainer but inside of that time it's cash, certified bank check, or, my personal preference, credit card. I'd say over 75% of all my transactions are via credit card either through PayPal or through Square, which is now my personal preference as I can take cards in person through my phone or over a phone call. So when it's a retainer, I take CC or rarely a check, but when it's time to get the balance I need a verified form of payment on the day of the shoot or the day before. That means:
Cash
Credit Card
Certified Bank Check through MY bank
PayPal (my least preferred method because, well, PayPal is the anti-Christ but some of my clients like them)
And I -ALWAYS- inform my clients of this both verbally and in the contract so there is no confusion. I even remind them of this in my confirmation email a few days before the shoot. I leave nothing to chance.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8093
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Heather J M wrote:
I thought the issue with paypal (certainly in connection with ebay anyway) was that the dispute system often does only a cursory investigation and often seems to arbitrarily decide who was right so in theory a photographer who provided a nude shoot for example, could later have the model get cold feet and get her money back? This is EXACTLY why I will almost never use PayPal unless it's the only way a client is willing to pay. PayPal is the antichrist. I had a client once file a bogus chargeback on me and PayPal did NOTHING to support me on it. It was about two years ago and I shot three days of a trade show for them including a photo booth with a green screen, printed photos on scene, the whole works. I even had a second photographer for one of the days and a part-time assistant helping out. It was a several thousand dollar gig. One request they gave me was that I deliver all the images to them via digital download within 72 hours of the shoot.
Within 48 hours of the last photo being taken, I uploaded all of the images to my server and sent the link to an email address they provided. It turns out that the email address had a typo in it so when I sent it, it went to their general mailbox of their secretary who was on vacation. I never got a phone call or an email asking where the photos were until a week later when one of the people from the company called me screaming that they never got their photos. I told him that I sent them and gave him the email address that THEY gave me (even forwarded them their own email) and he still blamed it on me. Two weeks later, I get the notice from PayPal that they filed for a complete chargeback. I sent PayPal copies of the contract, copies of all of the emails exchanged including the one with the wrong email address, the whole works. PayPal then ruled against me and withdrew the money from my checking account without telling me. What a bunch of assholes. Every penny those people scumbags make off of me I spit on.
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 3351
London, England, United Kingdom
Aaliyah I wrote:
I don't know many people that carry my rates worth of cash quid on them...especially in London. I think this may be the route cause of your problem with this designer.
Considering no one else has a problem with your methods, I wouldn't worry about it. Just be prepared for the occasional exception. In those cases use cheque or PayPal. Not the best solution, but sometimes you have to adapt.
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 3351
London, England, United Kingdom
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 3351
London, England, United Kingdom
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 3351
London, England, United Kingdom
Also, rightly or wrongly, "cash in hand" is a popular way of tax avoidance.
I think there is a new term so people don't confuse this with a normal cash payment. I am not suggesting the op is doing this but many legit employers are often over zealous in distancing themselves from that, that the moment you mention cash they spin off into their own little Dreamworld of panic.
Makeup Artist
Heather J M
Posts: 719
London, England, United Kingdom
Darren Brade wrote:
Also, rightly or wrongly, "cash in hand" is a popular way of tax avoidance.
I think there is a new term so people don't confuse this with a normal cash payment. I am not suggesting the op is doing this but many legit employers are often over zealous in distancing themselves from that, that the moment you mention cash they spin off into their own little Dreamworld of panic. Careful - I mentioned this as a possible explanation and it brought on a case of the white knights... Yours is more succinct though.
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5805
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
Aaliyah I wrote:
For those getting regular paid work what is your payment method ? For individuals, 50% non-refundable retainer (my lawyer prefers "retainer" to "deposit") at time of booking, usually via PayPal. Balance due at end of shoot. Many clients prefer to use a computer at the studio to access PayPal at the end of the shoot.
For corporate clients and other established business, generally whatever their normal practice is.
Makeup Artist
KJB
Posts: 1184
New York, New York, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
This is EXACTLY why I will almost never use PayPal unless it's the only way a client is willing to pay. PayPal is the antichrist. I had a client once file a bogus chargeback on me and PayPal did NOTHING to support me on it. It was about two years ago and I shot three days of a trade show for them including a photo booth with a green screen, printed photos on scene, the whole works. I even had a second photographer for one of the days and a part-time assistant helping out. It was a several thousand dollar gig. One request they gave me was that I deliver all the images to them via digital download within 72 hours of the shoot.
Within 48 hours of the last photo being taken, I uploaded all of the images to my server and sent the link to an email address they provided. It turns out that the email address had a typo in it so when I sent it, it went to their general mailbox of their secretary who was on vacation. I never got a phone call or an email asking where the photos were until a week later when one of the people from the company called me screaming that they never got their photos. I told him that I sent them and gave him the email address that THEY gave me (even forwarded them their own email) and he still blamed it on me. Two weeks later, I get the notice from PayPal that they filed for a complete chargeback. I sent PayPal copies of the contract, copies of all of the emails exchanged including the one with the wrong email address, the whole works. PayPal then ruled against me and withdrew the money from my checking account without telling me. What a bunch of assholes. Every penny those people scumbags make off of me I spit on. Please correct me if I'm mistaken -
You got scammed by a client and are upset with PayPal for not representing you correctly in a situation that required LEGAL attention?
Interesting.
Makeup Artist
The Beauty Artist
Posts: 918
Troy, Michigan, US
Honestly this just seems to be to be about taxes. The client was likely* implying that by asking for cash only it makes you come across as if you are running your business "under the table" vs. having your business registered and paying taxes.. hence their claim you are acting "unprofessional". They also might like for their own tax purposes and to protect themselves to have a record of having paid you. I find it slightly hypocritical of them to call you unprofessional though, because by them making that assumption it makes them look unprofessional as well. There was definitely a nicer and more tactful way they could have talked to you about this.
Photographer
Paul Dempsey
Posts: 675
Atlantic City, New Jersey, US
Cash sales are all about hidding the income from the government so you don't have to pay taxes on it. Basically, you are a tax cheat. Be honest, do you report 100% of your cash sales to the government. Probably not. So you're a tax cheat. That means that other people will be picking up the slack for you, paying YOUR share of the taxes. Of course you have absolutely no right to ever complain about taxes if you are in fact yourself a tax cheat. So all you cash only tax cheats better be silent about high taxes or Tax Karma will get you.
Body Painter
Lisa Berczel
Posts: 4132
New Castle, Pennsylvania, US
Paul Dempsey wrote:
Cash sales are all about hidding the income from the government so you don't have to pay taxes on it..... While this is certainly a valid aspect of the economy - when working with GWC and Event Promoters - CASH is the easiest and safest way to pay.
Accepting Cash in and of itself does NOT automatically make someone a tax dodger.
Yes, the increasing vailability of Square and other credit card devices does change the playing field. However, those charges can still be declined/disputed.
I've been in several situations where I've taken the gig - but don't trust the payee as far as they can throw them.
So... Shame on me for taking the gig if I have to negotiate payment in legal tender?
Wardrobe Stylist
SeaRoman
Posts: 507
Bellevue, Washington, US
Something Fun you can do, start your own business and charge them a 25$ check cashing fee, a 10$ inconvenience fee  No really it should not matter how you ask to be paid. Some people just don't like holding that much cash tell them they can pay in advance and wait til the check clears.
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 8463
Imperial, California, US
How else would you pay?? I wouldn't trust anyone's check these days, nor am I handin over my credit card, so cash works for me!
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 3351
London, England, United Kingdom
Paul Dempsey wrote:
Cash sales are all about hidding the income from the government so you don't have to pay taxes on it. Basically, you are a tax cheat. Be honest, do you report 100% of your cash sales to the government. Probably not. So you're a tax cheat. That means that other people will be picking up the slack for you, paying YOUR share of the taxes. Of course you have absolutely no right to ever complain about taxes if you are in fact yourself a tax cheat. So all you cash only tax cheats better be silent about high taxes or Tax Karma will get you. ....and as if by magic....
....someone comes in and illustrates my previous point on how people can automatically assume you're a tax dodger.
A note for the not so bright: cash is a legal method of tender, people still get paid that way, assuming someone is a tax dodger, without proof is wrong. Have proof before you start pointing your fingers.
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Surprisingly. I just never really gave it thought.