Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:
What no one seems to have brought up here is that sexual harassment/assault has NOTHING to do with the level of clothing the victim is wearing, and everything to do with power.

In the 4 years that I've been freelance modeling, I've been sexually assaulted twice on a shoot. Both times it had nothing to do with what I was wearing and everything to do with the fact that my assailants were sociopaths on a power trip.

Passing things like that off with "well she deserved it for looking like a slut" is so demeaning, insulting, and ridiculous it's amazing that people one here are entertaining it as a legitimate idea.

Furthermore, rape by coercion does actually happen, pretty often in fact. If I'm not mistaken it's one of the main ways that men are raped by women. Here's some more info about coercion and other forms of sexual assault as well as common questions about it: https://rainn.org/get-information/types … as-it-rape

Now, NO ONE in this thread is saying that a photographer cannot be sexually attracted to a model. Anyone is free to be as sexually attracted to anyone else they desire. And, if a photographer wants to ask me out on a date AFTER the shoot is over, he/she is free to do so. I'll still say "no thanks", but whatever.

Sexually harassing a model during a shoot is a completely different matter. Quite frankly, I don't care how little the model is wearing, there's no excuse for making inappropriate comments or advances. Keep it in your goddamn pants and let the model do her job.

While I do agree with you(and I am sorry for your experiences), that has nothing to do with the OP and her question. It's a shame she edited it because then you would know she never met the photographer. The harassment occurred while discussing a shoot.

Isis22 wrote:

While I do agree with you(and I am sorry for your experiences), that has nothing to do with the OP and her question. It's a shame she edited it because then you would know she never met the photographer. The harassment occurred while discussing a shoot.

I knew that already- I was mostly addressing the responses to this thread.

Danielle Reid wrote:

Based on this thread, just looking at a model will offend her.

Lol! for once we are in agreement!

London Fog wrote:

Lol! for once we are in agreement!

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:
What no one seems to have brought up here is that sexual harassment/assault has NOTHING to do with the level of clothing the victim is wearing, and everything to do with power.

Staying on topic from the first post that started all of this, what people are missing is that there are NO sexual harassment allegations from the OP who has fled the building.

The question was what do if approached for sex. The common sense adult response is to say "no" if it is unwanted.

What happens in threads like this is people escalate the threats. In this case I don't see it as a big deal, inappropriate for sure not rising to the level of sexual harassment or assault. However, accusations then get thrown out that this is blaming the victim and you must think its OK to harass models. That is an entirely different scenario than just asking someone for sex.

JonPhoto wrote:

Staying on topic from the first post that started all of this, what people are missing is that there are NO sexual harassment allegations from the OP who has fled the building.

The question was what do if approached for sex. The common sense adult response is to say "no" if it is unwanted.

What happens in threads like this is people escalate the threats. In this case I don't see it as a big deal, inappropriate for sure not rising to the level of sexual harassment or assault. However, accusations then get thrown out that this is blaming the victim and you must think its OK to harass models. That is an entirely different scenario than just asking someone for sex.

Yes. I know. I was replying mainly to posters in this thread who seem to be okay with condoning sexual harassment and assault.

Danielle Reid wrote:
Different strokes for different folks. My best shoots come from photographers who "sexually harass" me as some would put it...oh well.

LOL. Why do things have to be so complicated? I've had models tell me they have fun shooting with me because they can tell I am having fun. I'm not asking for sex but I would probably be labelled as a "harasser" by some on here. I'm doing something right because they want more shoots.

If the photographer makes unwanted remarks, say no and move on to the next photographer. The discussion about rape is totally out of left field for the OP but some seem to think this line of thinking means you are OK with rape and blaming the victim which is not true.

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:
Yes. I know. I was replying mainly to posters in this thread who seem to be okay with condoning sexual harassment and assault.

I have read the thread and no one has said that is OK. Asking for sex isn't bad. Doesn't mean you think assault or harassment is OK. This is where the thread turns ugly with strawmen arguments.

JonPhoto wrote:

LOL. Why do things have to be so complicated? I've had models tell me they have fun shooting with me because they can tell I am having fun. I'm not asking for sex but I would probably be labelled as a "harasser" by some on here. I'm doing something right because they want more shoots.

If the photographer makes unwanted remarks, say no and move on to the next photographer. The discussion about rape is totally out of left field for the OP but some seem to think this line of thinking means you are OK with rape and blaming the victim which is not true.

I've had some photographers say some pretty weird things. A simple "I'm not cool with that, could you stop" works a lot better than people think. I only walked out on one shoot and it was due to the photographer pulling out his dick. I laughed at him for a good 20 minutes while gathering my things. Made him feel like a fool.

I've also had photographers tell me I have nice tits, sexy ass, and "Oh yeah, stay like that, very sexy. You look hot!" Makes my day

Danielle Reid wrote:

I've had some photographers say some pretty weird things. A simple "I'm not cool with that, could you stop" works a lot better than people think. I only walked out on one shoot and it was due to the photographer pulling out his dick. I laughed at him for a good 20 minutes while gathering my things. Made him feel like a fool.

I've also had photographers tell me I have nice tits, sexy ass, and "Oh yeah, stay like that, very sexy. You look hot!" Makes my day

I've shot with models who have complained about the dick out. Laughing will make most guys shrivel Not that I'm saying its OK to whip it out.

Danielle Reid wrote:

The way I see it, there's no real reason to wear revealing clothes knowing it will get a negative response unless you're inviting that negative response.

Yes.

I M N Photography wrote:
I sometimes lose track of the fact that we have a situation where a person that wants to be treated as a grown up, is asking other adults how to deal with a simple situation.

Remove the "Photographer vs. Model" dynamic, and try to visualize how you would deal with the same situation  under a different setting.

If allowing people to fondle and/or kiss you conflicts with your moral values and/or integrity, then the solution should not be a difficult one to find.

Don't get me wrong, I am not implying that you are having difficulty dealing with a minor moral dilemma, but too many people post threads that are more about how to deal maturely with other adults, and less with some sort employer vs employee situation. "Just sayin."

Yep!

Danielle Reid wrote:
Based on this thread, just looking at a model will offend her.

London Fog wrote:
Lol! for once we are in agreement!

+1000

Michael Zahra wrote:
Believe it or not, it happens the other way around too, at shoots.

+1  Yes, but you rarely if ever see threads like that from photographers?, why because both individuals are mature adults and "handle it" with out adding fuel to the fire and distrust among model and photographer, how is anyone ever supposed to work together if everyone distrusts everyone, it makes for a very worthless and uncomfortable shoot that isnt worth doing. There are endless threads on here portraying the photographer as the "creepy" guy and or "villan", if there's that much paranoia or distrust, why bother modeling at all if your suspicious of everyone, this doesn't speak to everyone, but it does speak to numerous models out there that constantly "voice" their concern to others, rather than handle the situation.

To go even further, if I get any tiny sign or hint that a model is uncomfortable or paranoid before even meeting me, I do my best to speak with them, ask them of their concerns, and even joke with them, if I feel its something that wouldnt help, then I tell them to find another photographer. No one wants to shoot a model that publicly complained to everyone that the last photographer was a "creep" or worse. There were 2 models this past month that were paranoid and on the defensive before even discussing details, what did I do?, I told them to move on to another photographer and nothing has happened for them since , because of their attitude. There are many photographers out there that are offered sex and or propositioned and most just say no and they continue with their craft rather than develop a wide scale distrust for models. You usually don't hear about it, because they handle it and move on.
"Just say NO"

Click Hamilton wrote:
More often than not, I become friends with people who model for me.

Now what?

Am I allowed to treat them as friends?

seriously OP was first contacted and propositioned for sex.  any other of these imagined scenarios are fallacies and not what is being discussed here.  stop being myopic curmudgeons reinforcing rape culture and diluting discussions among models on how to handle such propositions.  no one cares about how you personally handle your shit and who you fuck or dont.

how this thread got this far with out being mercy locked, even with brian in here holding his face in his palm, i just dont understand.  i thought soap box was closed?