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Should I charge for unretouched images?
I have always had an issue with giving anyone unretouched images. Not because they are bad but because they are not complete representations of my work. As time goes by though I'm starting to care less and less about that so here I am asking i I should charge or not charge for unretouched images. I'm working on a "Build Your Own Package" thing for my website at the moment and I want to make sure my prices make sense. This is what I have at the moment: - Photography Fee: $50 per hour - Retouched Images: $15 per image - Unretouched Images: $1 per image - Outdoor Location: Free (unless a permit is needed) - Studio: $30 per hour, available Monday through Friday - Makeup Artist: $75 for 2 hours, $25 per additional hour - Hair Stylist: $75 for 2 hours, $25 per additional hour Is this a good idea or a bad one? Please explain. Thanks :-) EDIT: The studio is not mine. I rent it out from someone at that rate. P.S . If you think I should lower any of the prices let me know as well. I'm open to suggestions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW EDIT - 2/26/15 Ok so after reading all of the comments and visiting some of the links provided I came up with the following: PICK YOUR PACKAGE 1 person per package. Individual headshots, portraits and modeling photography only. Photoshoots are lit using natural and/or continuous light (no flash). All unretouched images included with packages. PACKAGE A - $145 - A 1 hour long outdoor photoshoot - Unlimited wardrobe changes (time and location permitting) - 2 lightly retouched images - 20 prints - All images available for download PACKAGE B - $290 - A 2 hour long outdoor photoshoot - Unlimited wardrobe changes (time and location permitting) - 4 lightly retouched images - 40 prints - All images available for download PACKAGE C - $350 - A 2 hour long studio photoshoot - Unlimited wardrobe changes (time permitting) - 4 lightly retouched images - 40 prints - All images available for download PACKAGE D - $470 - A 4 hour long studio and outdoor photoshoot - Unlimited wardrobe changes (time and location permitting) - 4 lightly retouched images - 40 prints - All images available for download ADD-ONS - Light Retouching: $20 per image - High-End Retouching: $20 per hour - Additional Prints: $2.50 per image - Additional Outdoor Shooting Time: $60 per hour (photography fee) - Additional Studio Shooting Time: $90 per hour ($30 for studio, $60 photography fee) - Makeup Artist: Varies depending on availability - Hair Stylist: Varies depending on availability CORPORATE, EDITORIAL & COMMERCIAL PHOTOSHOOTS To get a quote please send a detailed project itinerary (type of photoshoot, number of individuals, duration of project, budget, number of retouched and/or unretouched images desired, etc.) via the contact page. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let me know if this is better. Thanks! Feb 22 15 02:50 pm Link Yajhil Alvarez wrote: that's better Feb 22 15 03:37 pm Link Leonard Gee Photography wrote: DAAAAAAAMN lol. Are you serious? Is that how much you would charge? Feb 22 15 03:41 pm Link Your studio rate seems pretty low, and combined with that, charging only $1.00 for unretouched shots, where are you charging for your skills and expertise in this field? Does that even cover the cost of printing? Feb 22 15 03:59 pm Link DespayreFX wrote: Oh I don't print anything, I just send files via e-mail. The studio is someone else's. That's their rate. I should have probably stated that in the original post. I'll fix that now. Feb 22 15 04:05 pm Link My thought is if you are charging them to take the pictures, then they should get the pictures (usage and personal reproduction at least), since they paid you to take them. Charging someone twice for something seems exploitative and sleazy. If I paid someone $50 an hour to cut weeds in my yard I would balk at also paying $1 per weed they cut. Retouching is a separate service, though, so it should be charged for. And looking over your prices, you look cheap. Price yourself higher. Much higher. If people pay it, then great. But if someone can't/won't pay it, and they ask about lower prices, you'll have lots of wiggle room to go down on them and they'll enjoy that. And, in retrospect, that last sentence came out sounding really dirty, and it wasn't on purpose!  But it works. I know a guy in California who does special effects. The difference between me paying him to do something and a studio paying him to do something is a couple of orders of magnitude. I live in a poor place. I think $80 to $100 an hour is a good start for picture taking. It's a lot of work. If you think of overhead, you probably only get about half that as actual in pocket money. So $100 an hour is the $50 you want, but if you only ask for $50 then it's $25 an hour. And $25 isn't enough to convince me to take pictures of someone I don't want to take pictures of. I do minimal retouching, and almost all the jobs I've done for money were for a company that wanted raw images so their art department could edit them. So I really don't know how much to suggest there. Charge more for the studio. It probably costs a lot more than $30 an hour just to pay for the space, utilities ,and upkeep of just the building without counting the studio equipment inside the building. I'd drop the hair/make up fixed rate, and just say "extra" depending on who ends up doing hair makeup. Feb 22 15 04:06 pm Link When I shoot trade I never give models unretouched photos but the few times I did paid work I provided all the images and let the models pick the images they wanted retouched, they kept everything. I agree it makes it sound like you're trying to get them to pay for the same service twice. Oh and be careful about your retouching rates in the future. When it comes to retouching some images, specifically beauty, can take a lot longer than other images, specifically fashion. You don't shoot much beauty work now but if you ever start to I suggest you break it up into two categories (fashion and beauty) or charge by the hour instead. I used to have my retouching rates based on image and it eventually resulted in me getting screwed over because people would be paying $15 bucks or whatever for an image that would take me 3 hours. Feb 22 15 04:16 pm Link Thanks Schlake and Laura Bello! Ok so what if I upped my price to $75 or $100 an hour and included the unretouched images. Then, I split the retouching to something like... Natural Retouching: $15 per image Beauty Retouching: $15 per hour I can then take time to explain the amount of retouching for each so that people know what the difference is. I would say that basic would me more natural and beauty would be more commercial or something along those lines. Feb 22 15 04:25 pm Link Yajhil Alvarez wrote: Where is the markup? Feb 22 15 04:33 pm Link Yajhil Alvarez wrote: Why not Retouching: $x an hour Feb 22 15 04:36 pm Link Gary Livingston wrote: Well clients actually pay her (the studio owner) in person not me so if I marked it up it would make no sense since I don't touch that money. I do it that way because she has a cancellation contract so I would rather the client be responsible in the event that they cancel rather than me. Feb 22 15 04:36 pm Link Gary Livingston wrote: They are very different types of retouching. High-End I would have someone else do. Natural I do myself and I know it takes me like 30 minutes to an hour so $15 per image makes sense to me when it comes to that. Feb 22 15 04:39 pm Link Providing unretouched images reinforces the idea that the camera is the photographer and that anybody who owns a camera can do the job. It's better to tell people you wish it were so easy to deliver photos right from the camera but that it doesn't work that way. Because generally it doesn't. Feb 22 15 04:40 pm Link Carl Herbert wrote: Do you charge for unretouched images? If so, if you don't mind me asking, how much do you charge? Feb 22 15 04:42 pm Link I don't offer unretouched images, unless it was agreed on beforehand. I find that the vast majority of the time, clients see the unretouched images, and conclude that those are the final photos, and I didn't make them look very good. Explaining the process never seems to help, and I end up with a shooting fee(which is paid upfront), but no money for delivering images. So now what I do is whittle it down to a couple images per look/pose, and pick my favorite image from the whole shoot. They get super low-res versions of everything, and a high-res version of the one I liked and edited. If they like that one too, we're done. If not, hourly rate. I don't charge for individual images - that's just built into the shooting fee and editing rate. And if it isn't edited, they don't get it. I find that clients find it less confusing, and are more likely to spend, if you break it down into as few invoice items as possible. With more items, they feel like they're buying more, even if the price is the same. Maybe it's me and my limited clientele, but I've had more luck with $50/hour than with $30/hour and $20/image. That said, I've had the best luck with package pricing. Feb 22 15 05:54 pm Link Your pricing is very bad and so un-L.A. that you must be working in Alaska between fishing jobs. I can come up with no other explanation for such a hit job on yourself. It's like you're your own financial assassin. You need to charge a minimum of $350 for headshots, and included in that is the studio. Charge $300 if you want to hurt yourself a lit bit. Why. Your clients may boil down to just one a day. Competition is fierce in L.A. for actors stuff. And Headshots is where it is at. And it sets the price for other things like corporate portraits. You're at four looks and in L.A. some people price per look. $90 but really it is at least $180 as most actors are worried about the right look. And most will go for 4 looks. It is standard and reasonable. Nobody charges by the hour for portraits. I can do one in ten minutes. There's sometimes travel time and they aren't always on time. Traffic in Alaska? In L.A. it is so tough, it's like an anaconda is wrapped around everyone's time, stalling progress. If you're talking modelling portfolio. $350 for 4 looks is a low price. Actors also give up and flee this town like locusts moving backwards. Same with models. Had one announce on my sacred facebook page that L.A. models was booking me for him. He suddenly took off for San Francisco because his bank account demanded that he move. So he went where he could get work and not in modelling, of course. http://www.alanweissman.com/?gclid=CjwK … oCkpTw_wcB Go to his prices. Note that he includes 50 photos. Why? Actors still have to send them . . . He knows his market. Here are prices for a photographer who does weddings but also picks up corporate portraits: http://www.robgreerportraits.com/pricing Feb 22 15 06:27 pm Link I pay models and give them all the untouch images I keep on CD. Feb 22 15 06:40 pm Link LA StarShooter wrote: +1000 Feb 22 15 07:38 pm Link May I add, if you do family portraits you should charge a sitting fee instead of a hourly fee. You should be the one dealing with the studio not your clients. What you are charging is ridiculous. You are going to be out of business very soon. Don't take this as an insult. Take it as constructive criticism. The only way you can be successful in this business is if you value what you offer. Feb 22 15 07:45 pm Link i've had people ask for an unretouched image after seeing my retouching. lol. charge what the market will bear. what will your market bear? dunno. it's your market, not mine. Feb 22 15 07:55 pm Link The answer to your questions depends on what you are trying to achieve. if you are a hobbyist, just trying to make some pin money, your rates are fine and you will soon work out what adjustments are necessary. If you are trying to make a living at photography, you need to make some calculations. Start with the hourly rate that you think you need to charge to cover your labour, i.e. what you think you would have to pay yourself as an employee. Now think about the necessary multiplier, because you have overheads and there are plenty of time-stealers that ensure that you cannot get paid for every hour that you work. As a good rule of thumb, if you run a very tight ship, you can get way with a multiplier of 2.5 times your desired hourly rate. Most operations need a multiplier of 3, and the badly run businesses need higher. Looked at from the other direction, your suggested rate of $50/hr suggests that you value your time at $20/hr or less. Feb 23 15 04:52 am Link Gary Livingston wrote: +1 Feb 23 15 05:08 am Link Yajhil Alvarez wrote: this is interesting. I find it unusual that you would expect the client to book the studio. do you find that your clients prefer to do this themselves rather than pay you to do it? I think it is more typical for the photographer to provide this as part of their service (and charge an appropriate markup for doing so). Feb 23 15 10:29 am Link I agree with some others that $1 for unretouched photos seems strange. For jobs where the only deliverable is unretouched photos (e.g. shooting images of a golf tournament for display during the dinner after golfing), but I would just include this in the overall fee rather than billing for individual photos. I am personally more a fan of including everything in packages (e.g. one hour of shooting including 3 retouched images) rather than an a la carte approach. You can always negotiate something custom for those that require it. Otherwise you always have to make sure any combination of your menu of services is something you want to offer. For example, if someone books you and purchases just one unretouched image are you happy offering that service? Feb 23 15 10:37 am Link David Kirk wrote: It actually has worked out so far. Her and I both get paid in cash on the day of the shoot. All I do is give the client the studio information, they contact her, fill out her contract, and set the date. If they decided to back out and they don't give enough notice then they are responsible for the studio costs per her contract. Feb 23 15 01:02 pm Link David Kirk wrote: I ended up changing the entire thing. I will post the new pricing in a few. You guys all made a lot of good points :-) Feb 23 15 01:03 pm Link Mark Reeder Photography wrote: Thank you Feb 23 15 01:04 pm Link LA StarShooter wrote: You're extremely helpful. I took everything you said and adjusted it to fit what I'm trying to do. I will post the new idea in a few. Thanks. Feb 23 15 01:05 pm Link me voy wrote: I totally value what I offer. I just don't know a ton about pricing other than from browsing other people's stuff. Oh and I don't do family portraits. I wouldn't be very good at that. The most I have shot so far are two people at once. Thank you! Feb 23 15 01:07 pm Link ontherocks wrote: I had that happen once but the woman was crazy. It's a long story. Feb 23 15 01:08 pm Link There are markets where retouching is not just unneeded, it's frowned upon. I did a shoot of a little vacation house for a broker that was going to rent it out for visitors to Tucson. No retouching wanted or accepted. I submitted straight images in the size they needed and within a couple of hours, the money appeared in my bank account. Similarly, I shot for a magazine cover recently where they wanted RAW images. Again, I showed "proof" shots. They chose five and had money in my account that day. Sometimes you just need to provide the service the client wants. There may be a good reason, or not. Who cares if you get paid? Feb 23 15 01:24 pm Link Your prices are waaay too low. And instead of itemizing all this stuff you might consider doing more of a "package" format. Like, $350 gets you "this". Think of it like you telling the consumer what's on the menu, vs them telling you what they want to eat. It's your kitchen bro, and this ain't no Burger King. As for unretouched/ unedited images, my preference is always to leave the stuff that doesn't look the best where it belongs... 1's and 0's on a backup drive. But if you're going to put raw files/ unedited/ unretouched on the table I'd probably just come up with a flat fee for all of them and keep it simple so that you aren't spending time taking client requests for onesies and twosies. Feb 23 15 01:49 pm Link LA StarShooter wrote: +1 Feb 23 15 06:47 pm Link me voy wrote: +1!!!!!!!!! Feb 23 15 06:47 pm Link Pretend you're an 18-year-old straight guy, and your potential clients are reasonably attractive young women. (figuratively speaking) They have something you want, and one of the best things you can do is *not say/do things they find off-putting. I've always felt that women shouldn't be asked too many things, because they'll sometimes become annoyed by a man lacking confidence or his own opinions/desires. In a similar regard, clients don't usually want questions they want solutions. Overwhelming them with options will force them to require a larger investment of time & thought, which will usually send them packing and looking for a more straight-forward photographer.....unless your work is the cat's ass! FotoQuote recommends a 300% markup for RAW images, if I recall correctly. I have one client I sell my unedited video footage, at an added cost. In spite of the fact that I get paid when the session is done and I transfer the .MOV clips from my cameras to my laptop to his USB stick(s). If you have rock-bottom prices then clients will believe your work is of little value. Either it is, or perhaps there's another reason you aren't charging more. (they'll think in their minds) This is merely my opinion. Danny DBIphotography Toronto “The vilest deeds – like poison weeds – bloom well in prison air; it is only what is good in man that wastes & withers there.” ~Oscar Wilde Disclaimer: I am not an expert, nor do I claim to be. Anyone who questions the weight of my opinion(s) is free to validate my words based upon their review of my work (website) – which may/may not be supportive. Feb 23 15 06:56 pm Link NOBODY is getting unretouched images from me. NOBODY. Any more than I would release a draft of my resume before I removed the typos, corrected any grammar flaws and perfected the language. Think about it! And if your licensing agreement allows others to retouch and manipulate your images, you've just given away any control you might have had over what they end up with. If they over-retouch the photo to pieces - you're the one who's going to take the hit. If their monitors are uncalibrated and they release green skin tones, it's on you. If the final image isn't something you'd be proud to showcase, too bad. It's out there now and you can never pull it back. Now there are several levels of retouching as many have noted. But even for simple retouching, you can't be giving stuff away. Remember this: that which you GIVE away for free, immediately has no value. Bill Feb 26 15 05:53 am Link Match Frame Productions wrote: +1 Feb 26 15 06:48 am Link Hi everyone. So if you look at my original post you will see that I added new prices at the bottom. I took everyone's advice so hopefully these prices are better. Let me know. Feb 26 15 01:06 pm Link |
