Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14585
Palm Beach, Florida, US
Photographer
Vector One Photography
Posts: 3722
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
Chicchowmein wrote:
[insurance company drops coverage and may possibly deny coverage on the grounds that this was an inherently risky activity. I would think that as a matter of course the yard would deny future photo shoots. I'm just hoping he had insurance to begin with, that it was in force, that there is a high enough limit, AND his insurance company doesn't say that his insurance was to run a auto junk yard and not a photographic location lot. Also, you've seen the signs that say, " no customers allowed in shop area due to insurance rules". Wonder what the position is when you allow customers around the yard ?
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14585
Palm Beach, Florida, US
Vector One Photography wrote:
I'm just hoping he had insurance to begin with, that it was in force, that there is a high enough limit, AND his insurance company doesn't say that his insurance was to run a auto junk yard and not a photographic location lot. Also, you've seen the signs that say, " no customers allowed in shop area due to insurance rules". Wonder what the position is when you allow customers around the yard ? I don't know if he had insurance but I know my policy has exclusions -- fire might be on there. The medical bills for this type of accident will be astronomical.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Chicchowmein wrote:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/browa … story.html
I don't see anything more recent than 2 days ago but it is now said the woman with the life threatening burns was actually the production assistant.
"Fort Lauderdale Fire Rescue Fire Marshal Jeffrey A. Lucas said Montoya should have had a permit from his office, which requires one for all productions involving fireworks or flame effects."
No update on her condition or identity aside that is reported that the family does not wish to reveal her name for now. Thank you much.
I read that already... just wondering if there is anything more.
I feel so bad for these people.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14585
Palm Beach, Florida, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Thank you much.
I read that already... just wondering if there is anything more.
I feel so bad for these people. Yeah if I see any real updates I will be sure to post them. I don't watch the local news so anything I would get would be from the net.
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 12327
Baltimore, Maryland, US
The danger is obvious... In hindsight. Most yards puncture or remove gas tanks due to the fire danger. But junk yards like this are filled with flamable things. Heck, even the seats in old cars burn really well. And yes, a few ounces of gas vapor is enough. Most yards have strict no-smoking policies, im pretty sure they would not have approved candles. Im not sure what the vision for the shot was, but ill bet there was another way to pull it off.
I feel terrible for the girl. Even if she lives there is no 'recovery' from burns that severe. She will never lead a normal life again.
Yes, if youre in FL please post updates.
Model
Model MoRina
Posts: 6639
MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica
Model
Model MoRina
Posts: 6639
MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica
Photographer
Warren Leimbach
Posts: 3223
Tampa, Florida, US
Omigod how awful.
I hope they both survive and can recover from this.
Photographer
Jhono Bashian
Posts: 2464
Cleveland, Ohio, US
What a tragedy. So sad people will be scared for life. Poor judgment on the photographers part. Open flames and gas fumes don't mix just like water and electricity. He's an experienced shooter? Any boneyard is a fire hazard, everybody knows that. I hope their recovery is speedy with little pain and a good plastic surgeon.
Photographer
Zack Zoll
Posts: 6895
Glens Falls, New York, US
Chicchowmein wrote:
I don't know if he had insurance but I know my policy has exclusions -- fire might be on there. The medical bills for this type of accident will be astronomical. I'd also worry about whether or not the insurance company would want to cover something that could be deemed an "intentional" accident. I use quotes because while the accident itself obviously wasn't intentional, all of the actions that lead to it were, meaning the accident was avoidable.
My guess is that the junkyard owner's insurance will cover it, and then either drop him or raise his premiums through the roof. I doubt the photographer is going to be able to get his insurance company to pay up.
I want to pick on the guy for being so mind-bogglingly stupid, but we've all done dumb, dangerous shit. He just did it at a larger scale. Most of us learn about volatile fumes by losing arm hair or eyebrows when we try to light the grill.
It's tragic for everyone that he had to learn his lesson this way.
And this is why experienced people like the guys from Mythbusters still always have someone from the police or fire department around.
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Vector One Photography wrote:
This may sound rude but I hope they hang it on the photographer and not the yard. They allowed photographers to shoot in a place you normally don't get to use and they're going to eat it it for this. I used to shoot there, I just found two other yards 25 miles away but because of this incident they probably won't let me shoot even though I have $ 3M in insurance. I am sure both the yard and photographer will be named in any upcoming claim, hopefully the assistant will make it regardless. Children loosing their mom for some photo shoot in a old car is inconceivable to me
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Zack Zoll wrote:
I'd also worry about whether or not the insurance company would want to cover something that could be deemed an "intentional" accident. I use quotes because while the accident itself obviously wasn't intentional, all of the actions that lead to it were, meaning the accident was avoidable. I wouldn't be surprised if the insurance company would find ways of not to pay...
They love to not pay, by finding new definitions and exclusions so that they don't have to pay.
It's all about the bottomline!
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Vector One Photography wrote:
I shot in the same junk yard last week and I didn't smell any gas from anywhere. But all it takes is a few ounces to vaporize in a closed area and one spark. It was hot so any gas left in the gas tank (which may have been damaged in the accident that lead to the car being junked) would have vaporized and collected in the interior of the vehicle. Then the photographer LIT candles to be in the photograph and then boosh...there was a flash over that apparently engulfed the model, lit her dress and hair on fire. The rest is history.
It's a real loss on so many levels, the owner would allow some photographers to use it as a location so that's now history, the other yards will use this as a reason to keep photographers out, some other locations (not junk yards) will use this as an excuse not to allow photographers for their own liability risk. The photographer is injured, the model is in critical condition with burns over 75% of the body and probably will not be able to model any more.
All because some idiot comes up with an idea and didn't think it through, or didn't know enough about what he was planning. Fire, explosions, firearms, speeding cars, entering crumbling buildings... you have to know what you are doing or hire someone who does because when it goes bad, it goes really bad. QFT.
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Be sorry and sympathetic for the pain and suffering.
But also let us be realistic. It was a preventable accident.
We have all (at least most of us) done truly stupid things in our lives. That most of us have survived is by pure luck.
That the average teenager survives to grow into adulthood is a minor miracle.
Sometimes luck runs out.
This is a tragic, avoidable accident.
Hopefully others will learn.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Herman Surkis wrote:
Be sorry and sympathetic for the pain and suffering.
But also let us be realistic. It was a preventable accident.
We have all (at least most of us) done truly stupid things in our lives. That most of us have survived is by pure luck.
That the average teenager survives to grow into adulthood is a minor miracle.
Sometimes luck runs out.
This is a tragic, avoidable accident.
Hopefully others will learn. Totally agreeing with your post, except for one thing... I have never, ever EVER done anything stupid in my entire life... EVER...!!!
Model
Purple Widow
Posts: 30
Twentynine Palms, California, US
Am i the only one who wants to see that reel!?
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 12327
Baltimore, Maryland, US
I was trying to find an update. No new news past the original articles.
Photographer
KungPaoChic
Posts: 4221
West Palm Beach, Florida, US
Robb Mann wrote:
I was trying to find an update. No new news past the original articles. Yeah I have not seen anything
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