Katie Watt wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I'm new to MM...I have done some modeling before, like for Etsy stores and local businesses, but never for a professional photographer. I am planning out a shoot with a local photographer who has been very professional and is definitely "legit" (good references, website, etc.) He mentioned me signing a release form, which I assume is standard practice? He uses his images as stock photos (like on Shutterstock), so I would have to be OK with my image being posted for sale on there...which, I think I am, I just have to give it a little thought since I'm new at this!

Anyway, any insight/advice regarding release forms would be greatly appreciated! I just want to make sure I don't miss anything.

Katie

Signing a Model Release is pretty standard practice for any model. Nothing really new or unique there. However, if you are OK with him using these photos for profit, ask him if you will be receiving any percentage of the sales. If you are to receive any compensation, be sure to get that in writing in a separate document, outlining how much and when the payouts are to be scheduled and for how long.

Katie Watt wrote:
Hi Adam,

Thanks for taking the time to reply! One last question: If I wanted part of the profits, what would be a reasonable percentage to ask for?

Thanks

Katie, if you are looking for some type of compensation, I think for the situation you describe it would be much better asking for a flat rate for the shoot instead of trying to keep up with everything later.

Katie Watt wrote:
Hi Adam,

Thanks for taking the time to reply! One last question: If I wanted part of the profits, what would be a reasonable percentage to ask for?

Thanks

Also consider the caliber of his work. If he makes excellent images you might be doing very well to add them to your portfolio. You have 7 spots filled but there is plenty of room for more.

Katie Watt wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I'm new to MM...I have done some modeling before, like for Etsy stores and local businesses, but never for a professional photographer. I am planning out a shoot with a local photographer who has been very professional and is definitely "legit" (good references, website, etc.) He mentioned me signing a release form, which I assume is standard practice? He uses his images as stock photos (like on Shutterstock), so I would have to be OK with my image being posted for sale on there...which, I think I am, I just have to give it a little thought since I'm new at this!

Anyway, any insight/advice regarding release forms would be greatly appreciated! I just want to make sure I don't miss anything.

Katie

It would be convenient to know what the release said.  Otherwise, we are assuming it is a standard release.  But maybe not.  Anything you agree to should be (must be) in writing or there is no agreement, from a practical point of view.  If you are very restrictive in what you will allow the photos to be used for, there may be no use for them at all because of the marketing restraints.  Also, if the photos are posted in stock, or elsewhere on the net, assume that they will be stolen, or purchased, and used in a matter in which you do not approve.  There are several countries around the world that are known for re-apropriating photos for any imaginable use and the photographer will have zero control over it.

My feeling about getting a percentage of the profits is not a good one.  I can't imagine the burden of having to keep up with your current address for the rest of your life or the length of the agreement.  And what happens at the end of the agreement?  Also, the accounting nightmare of sending annual checks for your percentage, along with tax forms.  And you, keeping up with the tax reporting of your income for years.  All for what may be a few dollars.  then multiply that hassle over the number of photographers in your career that might want to pay you in these installments.  How are you going to keep up with all the addresses of the photographers, and their sales, and have some assurance that you are getting what is due?

Get paid at the time of your shoot for a reasonable hourly rate.  Most guys will pay at the end of the shoot.  No pay, no release.  No release, no pay.   Or trade for photos to improve your port.  Get the deal in writing.  READ the forums for threads on "What do I do when the photographer hasn't delivered the promised prints."  There are lots of them.  It will be an eye opener.   You should understand that trading for photos is not "working  for free" and trading is a form of payment.  If the photographer is a very high level photographer, trading and signing a release may be appropriate.  If he is a hobby guy at my level- you probably don't want to sign a very generous release.  But even I use one to protect myself.  I have no use for photos that I can't use.

You are right to ask your questions.  It is much better to find out people's opinions before you mess up and can avoid it, than after.

Assume, right now, you are in port building stage.  You are learning your craft.  You will find out there is much more to modeling than you may have realized.  It looks like you have a lot of wedding pictures in your port (not a critique, just an observation).  You may want to fill up your slots with the highest quality shots you can get and then start weeding out the wedding pictures.

Good luck to you!

Katie Watt wrote:
Hi Everyone,

so I would have to be OK with my image being posted for sale on there...which, I think I am, I just have to give it a little thought since I'm new at this!

Since he's planning on making money with your images, then I'd suggest you get paid for your work.  That needs to be stated on the Model Release, as to how you're going to be paid, either a flat rate, or a percentage of the sales..  If you sign a Model Release, and nothing is mentioned about what you are going to be paid, then it's unlikely you'll ever get a cent.  It's best to have someone who is familiar with Contracts, as to what the Model Release says, as it becomes a legally binding contract between both of you.   Best of luck.

Michael Spring wrote:
There are some restrictions on where stock images can be used, although they are limited.

-Portray any person depicted in Visual Content (a "Model") in a way that a reasonable person would find offensive, including but not limited to depicting a Model: a) in connection with pornography, "adult videos", adult entertainment venues, escort services, dating services, or the like; b) in connection with the advertisement or promotion of tobacco products; c) in a political context, such as the promotion, advertisement or endorsement of any party, candidate, or elected official, or in connection with any political policy or viewpoint; d) as suffering from, or medicating for, a physical or mental ailment; or e) engaging in immoral or criminal activities.
-Use any Visual Content in a pornographic, defamatory, or deceptive context, or in a manner that could be considered libelous, obscene, or illegal.

Very Helpful, thank you. What is your opinion of models creating their own release for regular TFs where stock is not apart of the conversation, perhaps including something like ^this?

Katie Watt wrote:
He mentioned me signing a release form, which I assume is standard practice?

Yes, standard practice.  I wouldn't photograph a model until after she signs a model release.

Katie Watt wrote:
If I wanted part of the profits, what would be a reasonable percentage to ask for?

Oh, my goodness!  These shared profit arrangements are very difficult:
...  Are you prepared to maintain a working relationship with this photographer for decades?
...  Are you willing to help pay the lawyers if the photographer gets sued?
...  What are the photographer's reasonable expenses?
...  Can you sell your percentage to a third party?
...  Can the photographer sell his copyright?

I could go on & on & on (I'm a music publisher, and I'm still actively managing these copyrights 50 years after the songs were written).

Images by MR wrote:
If I was a model I wouldn't sign a model release from a TF / test shooting giving the photographer the rights to sell the images.    If the photographer wishes to sell the images he should be paying me.

I'm not sure "He uses his images as stock photos (like on Shutterstock)" is the same as "selling the images".  Some models would be okay with this; others not, but like I said, I wouldn't bother making exposures until I get a model release signed.  If a model adopts this criteria ("If the photographer wishes to sell the images he should be paying me".), she might find herself with fewer modeling opportunities.


Let me offer two final bits of advice:
1)  I think it is appropriate to request in advance a copy of the model release form you will be expected to sign.
2)  In general, don't sign anything until & unless you understand the implications of everything the document says.

Images by MR wrote:
If I was a model I wouldn't sign a model release from a TF / test shooting giving the photographer the rights to sell the images.    If the photographer wishes to sell the images he should be paying me.

Just my thoughts ~ MR

The above advice is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE.    No Release = No Shoot    Considering the time and skill that photographers put into a shoot, many models are getting a GREAT deal on a Trade shoot, and not having to pay.  Bad advice like this is what keeps the brand new models with zero skills thinking they will be rolling in cash.