MN Photography wrote:

I didn't say why I would feel unsafe with certain models, you made the immediate assumption that the only possible reason is that I am in favor of sexual assault.  A lot of different applications of consent have been discussed in this thread.  and withdrawing consent after the fact has been discussed.  But, that's where you went.

The remark was made that some photographers are not safe to shoot with based on forums postings.  That only applies to photographers?

If you feel like maybe one of the models in this thread would like.. I dunno... steal something from your home, thats valid, but would only be relevant....in a thread about being robbed. This thread is about consent to fuck people. And it applies to everyone, but again, the topic of the discussion is sort of important

JQuest wrote:

I researched this for you, the OP's video wasn't made by any college in the United States, it was made by Blue Seat Studios in Providence Rhode Island and released by the Thames Valley Police in Britain as part of their "Consent is everything program. Congrats on just blowing up your entire argument against consent.

Apparently Obama had nothing to do with it... go figure.

This thread is slowly crossing over into Soapbox territory.

Click Hamilton wrote:

What a visual! HAHAHA .... can I borrow that idea for a Click Hamilton photo shoot?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaching_ … _suck_eggs

Did this expression originate along the same timeline as "Take a powder"?
My High School Geometry teacher talked like that.

Laura UnBound wrote:

If you feel like maybe one of the models in this thread would like.. I dunno... steal something from your home, thats valid, but would only be relevant....in a thread about being robbed. This thread is about consent to fuck people. And it applies to everyone, but again, the topic of the discussion is sort of important

Yes indeed.

Laura UnBound wrote:

If you feel like maybe one of the models in this thread would like.. I dunno... steal something from your home, thats valid, but would only be relevant....in a thread about being robbed. This thread is about consent to fuck people. And it applies to everyone, but again, the topic of the discussion is sort of important

People feel unsafe for a lot of reasons.  False accusations are not all that amusing either.

JQuest wrote:

I don''t think I've seen anyone sum up a more perfect reason for having affirmative consent than you just did.

Yes indeed.

D a v i d s o n wrote:
This absolutely correct , and now the Obama administration has  a bill to make college Affirmative Consent and Title IX
Accepted in our legal system of Law. This insane beyond my thinking , so step foot onto a college campus and you are no longer protected under out constitution that is a power grab to the max. I really people should do some research on this their own because apparently you don't know or understand what Affirmative Consent and Title IX is.

Um... Title IX is already THE LAW. It always was "accepted into our legal system of law" (whatever the hell that redundant phrasing means). And anyone who thinks that stepping onto a college campus means you are no longer are protected under the constitution has ZERO idea what they are talking about, because that's 100% false.

This is a perfect example of people not understanding what the discussion is actually about, while just repeating the crappy misinformation that they consume passively and without a shred of actual critical thinking.

Al Lock Photography wrote:

Problem is, it is a legal solution to a cultural problem.

It won't work.

ignoring men can be raped too..

which culture? 

rape has existed for as long as humans have existed.  In every nation.  So which culture is the problem and how do we fix it?

doesn't.... you know... getting consent, go towards fixing the problem.

Al Lock Photography wrote:
No. It's accurate. Women are physically weaker than men. Doesn't make them inferior, it is simply the nature of biology.
It is also a very pertinent fact when it comes to issues of consent and sexual relations. It is why some cultures (as already pointed out) taught "protect women", "don't hit a woman", etc. and the breakdown of those cultural norms, the destruction of the culture of honor and cultures of dignity as the norm becomes cultures of victimhood. Fed by people who don't want to recognize facts such as women being weaker than men.
If you are insulted by facts, you are going to have a hard time getting through life.

I am not insulted by facts.
As a man, you're going to have a hard time getting through life talking to any woman that doesn't believe in gender roles... and gender roles have nothing to do with consensual sex.

JQuest wrote:

I researched this for you, the OP's video wasn't made by any college in the United States, it was made by Blue Seat Studios in Providence Rhode Island and released by the Thames Valley Police in Britain as part of their "Consent is everything program. Congrats on just blowing up your entire argument against consent.

Apparently Obama had nothing to do with it... go figure.

Your right  Blue Seat Studios in Providence Rhode Island  created this and released by the Thames Valley Police in Britain. But now Through the Violence Prevention Groups at our colleges are using it too... it's very political.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 … e-kitchens

Click Hamilton wrote:
I hosted Laura Unbound as a traveling model in San Diego in 2011.

For the record, I want to say that she was kind and polite, and she was a good guest to host. It was a pleasure to meet her and work with her. We made some nice pictures together.

At the end of her stay some guy drove down from Los Angeles to pick her up. It turned out to be Peter Claver. I went out to the curb where he was parked in his car to introduce myself and say hello. He zoomed off as I approached his car without a word. Maybe he hated me then too. I have no idea why he drove to the front of my house all the way from Los Angeles then back. That's a 4-5 hour drive. Whatever.

I'm not sure I'm looking for personal recommendations here. 

The subject sidetracked into making assumptions based on forums posts.  It seems to be wide open to make assumptions about photographers and I just added that I wouldn't necessarily feel safe around some models based on forums posts.  I didn't mention names, make hints or even say why I'd feel unsafe.  But, you know, boom, the assumption is made that I favor sexual assault.  A superficial value judgement based on nothing except maybe that I am a male photographer.  So, based on having just made what was basically a false accusation, I suggested that maybe it's possible to feel unsafe around people who make false accusations especially when we are talking about something as potentially volatile as bondage photography.

Click Hamilton wrote:
For the record, I want to say that she was kind and polite, and she was a good guest to host. It was a pleasure to meet her and work with her. We made some nice pictures together.

At the end of her stay some guy drove down from Los Angeles to pick her up. It turned out to be Peter Claver. I went out to the curb where he was parked in his car to introduce myself and say hello. He zoomed off as I approached his car without a word. Maybe he hated me then too. I have no idea why he drove to the front of my house all the way from Los Angeles then back. That's a 4-5 hour drive. Whatever.

Thats very strange, did he come back to pick her up or was she already in the car.

MN Photography wrote:

The video was very general, covered a lot of ground and could be applied to a lot of situations.  The original motivation for creating the video is not really relevant.

And this thread has gone on pretty long without someone overtly mentioning partisan politics.  Unless it's your mission in life to go around getting threads locked, you should probably shitcan the political stuff.

It is political keep your head in the sand.

D a v i d s o n wrote:

It is political keep your head in the sand.

You know how the forums work.

MN Photography wrote:
I'm not sure I'm looking for personal recommendations here.

The subject sidetracked into making assumptions based on forums posts.  It seems to be wide open to make assumptions about photographers and I just added that I wouldn't necessarily feel safe around some models based on forums posts.  I didn't mention names, make hints or even say why I'd feel unsafe.  But, you know, boom, the assumption is made that I favor sexual assault.  A superficial value judgement based on nothing except maybe that I am a male photographer.  So, based on having just made what was basically a false accusation, I suggested that maybe it's possible to feel unsafe around people who make false accusations especially when we are talking about something as potentially volatile as bondage photography.

I know.

But Laura is a professional model and she was a good person to work with. I just didn't want to leave your post about her on a negative note without a rebuttal in her defense.

[I know she can defend herself. It's a simple common courtesy.]

Click Hamilton wrote:

I know.

But Laura is a professional model and she was a good person to work with. I just didn't want to leave your post about her on a negative note without a rebuttal in her defense.

[I know she can defend herself, but I'm old fashioned like that. It's a simple common courtesy.]

It's hypothetical situations based on forums posts.  Almost no one reads this crap anyway.

Jules NYC wrote:
Did this expression originate along the same timeline as "Take a powder"?
My High School Geometry teacher talked like that.

I don't know. I think it's British.

I think I heard about egg-sucking dogs from Johnny Cash or Merle Haggard, but I've never heard about "teaching grandmother to suck eggs"

The visual of sucking in hard boiled eggs with bulging eyes made me laugh. Then I found out it meant sucking the liquid whites and yolks out of eggs through a pin hole.

D a v i d s o n wrote:

Your right  Blue Seat Studios in Providence Rhode Island  created this and released by the Thames Valley Police in Britain. But now Through the Violence Prevention Groups at our colleges are using it too... it's very political.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 … e-kitchens

Yes, you're quite correct we must remain aware and vigilant in regard to these groups that would seek to prevent/reduce violence on college campuses....wait... seriously wtf?!?

MN Photography wrote:
Almost no one reads this crap anyway.

We've made it to 10 pages and 381 posts.

Not bad at all


Jen B may have lost her faith in us, but I think it's been a good thread.

Lots of thoughts have been flushed out. Maybe we can all learn something from this open forum of ideas.

D a v i d s o n wrote:
Thats very strange, did he come back to pick her up or was she already in the car.

She was in the car. Maybe he didn't see me.

That's all I want to say about that. I prefer to stay on the subject of this thread.

JQuest wrote:

Yes, you're quite correct we must remain aware and vigilant in regard to these groups that would seek to prevent/reduce violence on college campuses....wait... seriously wtf?!?

they are sneaky.
evidently, it is a plot to get the US population to go down.  All because people believe consent is good.

JQuest wrote:

Yes, you're quite correct we must remain aware and vigilant in regard to these groups that would seek to prevent/reduce violence on college campuses....wait... seriously wtf?!?

Not overly interested in reading the article, eh? Personally, I'm in favor of a system that includes due process to all parties involved, proper investigation, processes not hidden from the light, and, if a person is found guilty of rape, they are removed from society (you know, that kind of helps to "prevent/reduce violence on college campuses").

As to the original topic: while the video is cute, and takes a charming approach to the issuance of consent, the big concept (boundaries, respect for others, etc.) is something that is taught to most children by the age of five or six, and then reinforced over the years. Anyone in their late teens, that has not learned these things, will not likely have an epiphany of understanding upon watching the vid.

However, it makes people feel good that they did something proactive, for all the good reasons, showing their hearts are solidly in the right place, by either making the vid or showing it.

Click Hamilton wrote:
For the record, I want to say that she was kind and polite, and she was a good guest to host. It was a pleasure to meet her and work with her. We made some nice pictures together.

At the end of her stay some guy drove down from Los Angeles to pick her up. It turned out to be Peter Claver. I went out to the curb where he was parked in his car to introduce myself and say hello. He zoomed off as I approached his car without a word. Maybe he hated me then too. I have no idea why he drove to the front of my house all the way from Los Angeles then back. That's a 4-5 hour drive. Whatever.

D a v i d s o n wrote:
Thats very strange, did he come back to pick her up or was she already in the car.

It would be strange if that's how it happened.  But.. as usual.. click is off in a fantasy land again.

When I arrived to pick up Laura Click was nowhere to be found.. I helped her gather her things inside the house and we went to the car.. as we were getting in he came by and said hello.  We shook hands and, and this part is important, I introduced myself and we exchanged pleasantries but we were in a rush and I needed to get back to LA.

I'm not sure what's hard to understand that I would want to make a 5-ish hour drive to pick up my girlfriend (now wife) who I hadn't seen in some months, and who happened to be on the same coast as me while we were both traveling for work.  I picked her up because I wanted to spend time with her in LA before we had to part ways again a few days later.

JQuest wrote:
Yes, you're quite correct we must remain aware and vigilant in regard to these groups that would seek to prevent/reduce violence on college campuses....wait... seriously wtf?!?

Consider the "publication" in question... biased, stilted right-wing agit-prop outlet founded by William F. Buckley Jr.

The "article" basically paints everyone interested in consent as a "gender activist" and anyone running afoul of consent as a poor helpless victimized "man" who runs to Mumzy and Dadsy's fancy lawyer to sue the school rather than man up and take responsibility for his actions. Because hey... America, where you can acquire the finest privilege-reinforcement money can buy.

Oh, was I being politically incorrect when I said "man up"? Maybe I should have said "legal-person up", because many people claiming to be "men" are apparently helpless victims of the evil government and the evil lawyers and the evil social justice warriors victimizing them left and right. Oh, poor poor legal-persons formerly known as "men", sob sob sniff sniff.

Peter Claver wrote:
It would be strange if that's how it happened.  But.. as usual.. click is off in a fantasy land again.

When I arrived to pick up Laura Click was nowhere to be found.. I helped her gather her things inside the house and we went to the car.. as we were getting in he came by and said hello.  We shook hands and, and this part is important, I introduced myself and we exchanged pleasantries but we were in a rush and I needed to get back to LA.

I'm not sure what's hard to understand that I would want to make a 5-ish hour drive to pick up my girlfriend (now wife) who I hadn't seen in some months, and who happened to be on the same coast as me while we were both traveling for work.  I picked her up because I wanted to spend time with her in LA before we had to part ways again a few days later.

I was nowhere to be found and you shook hands with me? You walked inside my private home without me inviting you in?

OK, let me retract a little. I do now remember you telling me your name at the curb. That's how I suddenly discovered who was in front of my house. There was no mention at all of your name before you said it at the curb before you darted off. I knew your name previously from the forums. It was almost 5 years ago. You are correct. You told me your name before you rushed off. The room where I was hosting Laura is behind a wall, in the back, behind a yard gate and an entry door to that part of the house. Why were you inside that part of my house without me taking you there? The front door of the house remains locked. There is not direct access from there to my studio anyway. Did you come into the back portions of my house on your own or did Laura go out to the curb to meet you?

Click Hamilton wrote:

I was nowhere to be found and you shook hands with me? You walked inside my private home without me inviting you in?

OK, let me retract a little. I do now remember you telling me your name at the curb. That's how I suddenly discovered who was in front of my house. There was no mention at all of your name before you said it at the curb before you darted off. I knew your name from the forums. It was almost 5 years ago. You are correct. You told me your name before you rushed off. The room where I was hosting Laura is behind a wall, in the back, behind a yard gate and an entry door to that part of the house. Why were you inside that part of my house without me taking you there? The front door of the house remains locked. There is not direct access from there to my studio anyway. Did you come into the back portions of my house on your own or did Laura go out to the curb to meet you?

The way you feel about a stranger going into your home is the exact way a woman OR man feels when they agree or not to sexual advances.

Jules NYC wrote:
The way you feel about a stranger going into your home is the exact way a woman OR man feels when they agree or not to sexual advances.

Jules NYC wrote:
The way you feel about a stranger going into your home is the exact way a woman OR man feels when they agree or not to sexual advances.

I was raped! The Patron Saint of Slaves penetrated my inner sanctum without affirmative consent!

Now I feel the need to take a shower.

^^ Edited for clarity because of a surge of hostility: Yes, this is absurd to demonstrate the level of absurdity to which some arguments are taken. It was said tongue-in-cheek.

Click Hamilton wrote:
I was nowhere to be found and you shook hands with me? You walked inside my private home without me inviting you in?

OK, let me retract a little. I do now remember you telling me your name at the curb. That's how I suddenly discovered who was in front of my house. There was no mention at all of your name before you said it at the curb before you darted off. I knew your name from the forums. It was almost 5 years ago. You are correct. You told me your name before you rushed off. The room where I was hosting Laura is behind a wall, in the back, behind a yard gate and an entry door to that part of the house. Why were you inside that part of my house without me taking you there? The front door of the house remains locked. There is not direct access from there to my studio anyway. Did you come into the back portions of my house on your own or did Laura go out to the curb to meet you?

Because a guest in your home (my girlfriend, now wife) invited me back to come help collect her things and take them to my car.  We went through a side gate and a door in the side of the house, if I recall.  I didn't go anywhere near the front door and we were, at the time, quite civil.. you even contacted me afterwards and we had a nice discussion about an hypothetical next trip to San Diego (which never happened since I've never been back, though I've been near) and our polite differences in the forums.  So no.. I didn't hate you back then and you know that.  It was only until more of your character was revealed that I became distasteful of any contact with you.  And you know that too.

JQuest wrote:
Yes, you're quite correct we must remain aware and vigilant in regard to these groups that would seek to prevent/reduce violence on college campuses....wait... seriously wtf?!?

In February 2014, RAINN, one of the largest rape victim advocacy groups submitted their recommendations to the DOJ White House Task Force to Protect Students from Sexual Assault.  In their document they specifically expressed their concern over colleges handling cases, and recommend than rather than colleges adjudicating such cases internally, colleges should be working with law enforcement who should be the ones to handle such cases.

Speaking to college judicial boards RAINN states:

"...the simple fact is that these internal boards were designed to adjudicate charges like plagiarism, not violent felonies. The crime of rape just does not fit the capabilities of such boards. They often offer the worst of both worlds: they lack protections for the accused while often tormenting victims."  They go on to mention some ways colleges have been sued from both sides for their inability to handle such cases in a just manner.  *

I think victim advocacy groups like RAINN make some very good suggestions regarding some productive and appropriate steps colleges and universities can take to help reduce sexual assaults and to aid victim.  I agree with most of them. However, even they make it clear that college judiciary boards should not be handling such cases as they are, law enforcement should. 

Being serious about sexual assault does not mean we should be allowing, untrained, often biased college hearing boards handle such cases or the accused should be denied proper due process.


*Page 9.  https://rainn.org/images/03-2014/WH-Tas … ations.pdf

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