CamelliaFlower wrote:
A couple weeks ago I posted this thread, and received a lot of good advice--Short version:

-Photographer contacted me, was vague about shoot location and didn't provide me with an address up to under 24hrs of the shoot time

-Did not respect my stated boundaries regarding nudity *after* we had already discussed and agreed on wardrobe, kept pushing me to show more skin despite the fact that I already said I was not interested in doing that type of shoot.

I wound up canceling my shoot with him.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/952987

He has since messaged me again (seemingly unaware that I had already declined to work with him, maybe he doesn't remember) asking to work on a music video. I responded:

"Hi *name*,
My apologies but I am not interested in doing any film work at this time.
Camellia"

He replied saying "Okay no problem, how about a photoshoot this Sunday at Long Island".

I read the message while I was at work (a couple hours ago) and did not respond right away. I just got home to find this in my inbox:

"I offer my services and I can't get a reply at least.
All I said was I would like to photography you. If you don't want to help film that's fine. I figured that was okay.
I really got to stop messaging newbies in this Industry. Unprofessional I'm reporting this to model mayhem. I starting to doubt if people are real on here."

One of us is out of line here but I don't think it's me. I have zero inclination to work with this photographer, especially given that on top of his shady behaviour during my last interaction with him, he is now displaying what amounts to a tamper tantrum and threatening me because I didn't respond fast enough for his liking.

Is it worth my time to respond (obviously with a civil and level-headed reply)? Is this type of behaviour a common occurrence here? And is this reportable behaviour or not really. Does anything really happen when a member is reported?

Well, you can't say definitively that this photographer is a lowlife; however if you apply the "Duck" test, he qualifies.  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and flies like a duck, it's highly likely it's a duck.  He has shown this type of disrespectful behavior on two occasions now.  Personally, I think you have grounds to CAM him.  He's already threatened to do the same with you; MM should at least get to hear both sides of the story.  (presuming he has such an ego that he really thinks he's done nothing wrong)   At the very least, his behavior is boorish and you should block him on MM.

All just IMHO.

Best

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
Well, you can't say definitively that this photographer is a lowlife; however if you apply the "Duck" test, he qualifies.  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and flies like a duck, it's highly likely it's a duck.  He has shown this type of disrespectful behavior on two occasions now.  Personally, I think you have grounds to CAM him.  He's already threatened to do the same with you; MM should at least get to hear both sides of the story.  (presuming he has such an ego that he really thinks he's done nothing wrong)   At the very least, his behavior is boorish and you should block him on MM.

All just IMHO.

Best

Definitely not making any solid statements about his character, I don't know him and haven't even met him in real life. But suffice to say I don't think his behaviour during our last conversation inspired much confidence and I feel my mistrust was justified; regardless of his intention I think his actions were suspicious and he's not really redeeming himself with this latest debacle.

If I were to CAM him, what should I categorize the reason as? Abusive?

Natural Light on Location wrote:
Some times, some photographers.

Get a widdle Butt hurt.

A normally nice guy, comes across as a creep, because he thought he hired a model.

Then she showed up with her boyfriend, who got a ride from his uncle, who needed gas money when he dropped them off.

Then they went to his Studio, okay his apartment, and every question he asked the model, she redirected to her boyfriend.

"Baby, should I wear this? Baby, can I wear this, Baby I don't know.

Until, the photographer turned to said BF, and said, "Dude, your GF is a headcase," and he said, "Bro, Don't I Know."

Then the next time, he's a little head strung.

It happens.

Not all Fertographers are Creeps with a hidden Agenda.

Some are just shell shocked.

So you're arguing that his behaviour is creepy because he's traumatized by past negative experiences?

Good for you on giving people the benefit of doubt but I'm not going to make up a nonexistent backstory to justify someone's behaviour. For the sake of my own personal interest, I can only judge a stranger by face value. I have no reason to believe this is a "normally nice guy" when each interaction I have had with him has been negative. I don't owe him anything when all he's done is disrespect my very clearly stated boundaries, fail to provide crucial info despite being asked multiple times, and threaten me because I didn't reply to him within three hours.

And this would have been a TFP, so no, he didn't "hire" me.

CamelliaFlower wrote:
Definitely not making any solid statements about his character, I don't know him and haven't even met him in real life. But suffice to say I don't think his behaviour during our last conversation inspired much confidence and I feel my mistrust was justified; regardless of his intention I think his actions were suspicious and he's not really redeeming himself with this latest debacle.

If I were to CAM him, what should I categorize the reason as? Abusive?

You need to protect yourself. Use the block function - I think there's a block function...

JimMendrinos wrote:
You need to protect yourself. Use the block function - I think there's a block function...

I considered it but...I don't actually feel threatened or concerned, more amused than anything. I'm sort of curious what he will write me next.

I haven't been very active on MM until recently so I was just wondering if this type of occurrence was quite common or if it's just my misfortune to have two run-ins with the same weirdo.

JimMendrinos wrote:
You need to protect yourself. Use the block function - I think there's a block function...

CamelliaFlower wrote:
I considered it but...I don't actually feel threatened or concerned, more amused than anything. I'm sort of curious what he will write me next.

I haven't been very active on MM until recently so I was just wondering if this type of occurrence was quite common or if it's just my misfortune to have two run-ins with the same weirdo.

I personally know several people who have had their MM accounts cancelled on the basis of accusations; no investigation was made.  If the "aforementioned" individual accuses you of anything against MM rules, my experience is that there is no guarantee your side of the issue will even be heard.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
I personally know several people who have had their MM accounts cancelled on the basis of accusations; no investigation was made.  If the "aforementioned" individual accuses you of anything against MM rules, my experience is that there is no guarantee your side of the issue will even be heard.

True that would suck. I could just make a new account but even so.

Unless there is a MM rule that you MUST respond to every message you receive I don't see how he could in any way legitimately accuse me of any type of rule-breaking. It seems crazy that I could get my account deleted based on a single accusation alone--doesn't seem like a good practice.

Think they'd be less inclined to delete if I were a paying member? Hahaha...

CamelliaFlower wrote:
...Is it worth my time to respond...

No.

CamelliaFlower wrote:
...is this reportable behaviour...

No.

Mark Salo wrote:
No.

Thanks for your short but definite advice haha.

Ereka Marcelino wrote:
He contacted to shoot you, but you are a photographer? How does that happen?

And why the need to post numerous threads about the same thing? Go with your gut. If you don't want to shoot with him and feel harassed somehow, simply block him. Pretty straight forward.

I'm changing my MM account to Model, I posted a casting call as a model.

And I am not asking for advice about whether or not to shoot with him, that is a foregone conclusion. The incident I am posting about in this thread is a separate situation from the previous one.

Sure, I can block one person, but I am wondering how common this type of person/response is and exactly how frequently I will be blocking members on this site because of unwarranted hostility. That is why I felt the need to make a second thread regarding the same member.

CamelliaFlower wrote:
Is it worth my time to respond (obviously with a civil and level-headed reply)? Is this type of behaviour a common occurrence here? And is this reportable behaviour or not really. Does anything really happen when a member is reported?

Just block him and move ...

MoRina wrote:
There are many talented people on Model Mayhem, and there are some wing nuts.  If you give each crazy or annoying person the time and effort you are giving this one, it will taint your view of the whole place. Before you know it, you'll become jaded and suspicious of everyone, and you'll miss out on opportunities with the people who ARE worth your time.

Block and move on.

Sound advice, thank you

I've worked with several people off MM already and each time has been a great experience, definitely not about to let this guy ruin my time here.

CamelliaFlower wrote:
... I was just wondering if this type of occurrence was quite common or if it's just my misfortune to have two run-ins with the same weirdo.

No, your experience is not at all common. MM has a proportion of obnoxious photographers and obnoxious models but most of them have enough intelligence to remember who they have irritated and the good sense not to line up for a second helping.

Rob Photosby wrote:
No, your experience is not at all common. MM has a proportion of obnoxious photographers and obnoxious models but most of them have enough intelligence to remember who they have irritated and the good sense not to line up for a second helping.

Thank you for the insight Rob. Guess I'm just unlucky!

Loki Studio wrote:
A professional reply is proper.  It could be

"I am not interested in working with you at all. When we tried to set up a shoot, you failed to provide proper location information and continued to push for nudity even after I responded that I was not interested.  I work in good faith with real professionals, but I accept that sometimes we cannot agree on mutually beneficial conditions for a shoot.  This does not make me unprofessional, I just don't want to work with you."

Thanks for taking the time to write out this well-thought response Loki! I really appreciate it.

Just to clarify I was intending to respond to him (*before* he sent me the message threatening to report me), but I simply didn't have time in the immediate moment when I read his message.

From when I read his proposal to shoot, and the time he sent the angry message, there was probably about 2 hours time.

I understand the frustration of seeing that your message has been read but not receiving a reply, it isn't like it hasn't happened to me a ton! But people are busy and have lives outside of MM, it seems reasonable to wait at least a day before assuming they're deliberately ignoring you.

CamelliaFlower wrote:
-Photographer contacted me, was vague about shoot location and didn't provide me with an address up to under 24hrs of the shoot time

Btw., I was a little confused, since you have a photographer's profile..., thought you are a someone with a modeling and a photography profile.

Apparently... you are a model, not a photographer... so, maybe you should check and change the profile settings... you may show up easier in the search function.

JimMendrinos wrote:
You need to protect yourself. Use the block function - I think there's a block function...

CamelliaFlower wrote:
I considered it but...I don't actually feel threatened or concerned, more amused than anything. I'm sort of curious what he will write me next.

I haven't been very active on MM until recently so I was just wondering if this type of occurrence was quite common or if it's just my misfortune to have two run-ins with the same weirdo.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
I personally know several people who have had their MM accounts cancelled on the basis of accusations; no investigation was made.  If the "aforementioned" individual accuses you of anything against MM rules, my experience is that there is no guarantee your side of the issue will even be heard.

I'm not sure that "failing to respond within a few hours" is against the rules.

udor wrote:
Btw., I was a little confused, since you have a photographer's profile..., thought you are a someone with a modeling and a photography profile.

Apparently... you are a model, not a photographer... so, maybe you should check and change the profile settings... you may show up easier in the search function.

Sorry! I'm in messages with CAM to get that changed ATM. I can't change it myself, only moderators can change it.

Art of the nude wrote:
I'm not sure that "failing to respond within a few hours" is against the rules.

I mean I suppose he could always lie and say I did something outrageous, but this is a screenshot of the messages...I originally responded to the initial message really early in the morning, and inbetween his first reply and second there are less than 4 hours. I didn't see his reply right away.





I also want to make it clear that this isn't a case of "model thinks all slightly socially awkward guys are creepers with bad intentions"...like I've said I worked with many photographers from MM already and never had any bad feelings from them.

But during the prior post about this same photographer, I was advised by many photographers from MM that his behaviour was suspicious and to cancel the shoot. As well as another member pointing out that I should heed this advice especially given even the photographers think something isn't right with the situation, it isn't just me being unnecessarily alarmist as a model.

CharlieMW wrote:
Its really not worth the time and effort to reply. Obviously this person has issues that do not start and end with you. I would just block them and move on. Conversationally, you are waltzing with a porcupine and it can only end badly for you.

Hah! I like that term. Thanks--I almost feel compelled to respond to disprove his accusation that I'm unprofessional just because I didn't reply right away, but that's probably his intention to goad a reply out of me.

Eyesso wrote:
That photographer sounds a little desperate....which is not a good thing. 

Just stop writing to him.  "Not writing back" is commonly used as the answer "no".  If he is going to report you for THAT, then he will come across as desperate to somebody else, let him.  Don't fear getting reported for something like that on here....there is no professionalism-police.

True...thought this was generally frowned upon though.

Eyesso wrote:
That photographer sounds a little desperate....which is not a good thing. 
Just stop writing to him.  "Not writing back" is commonly used as the answer "no".  If he is going to report you for THAT, then he will come across as desperate to somebody else, let him.

CamelliaFlower wrote:
True...thought this was generally frowned upon though.

this is a typical ploy of blaming and laying guilt on someone who doesn't want to do something in hopes of changing their mind. some people learn that if they do it long enough a weak personality will eventually give in. for those types of persons, any response only prompts them to another guilt heaping back on you once more. although i did once compose a great letter for another model that was classic and did the job - just stop answering is a good thing. in this case, it's fine.

The F-Stop wrote:
just block the guy since he's becoming a pest n threatening you.

FilmmakerDC wrote:
Ignore it and walk away.

LeonardG Photography wrote:
this is a typical ploy of blaming and laying guilt on someone who doesn't want to do something in hopes of changing their mind. some people learn that if they do it long enough a weak personality will eventually give in. for those types of persons, any response only prompts them to another guilt heaping back on you once more. although i did once compose a great letter for another model that was classic and did the job - just stop answering is a good thing. in this case, it's fine.

That's a pretty good point, and you're right...when I canceled with him last time he did try to guilt me ("we could have made something great together, why cancel, etc.").

Good thing I'm not really susceptible to guilt and pleading 'cause my heart is black and cold

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
He may not be a bad guy, just extremely frustrated that models don't respond to him, and he lost it and said something stupid.  The whole interaction shows that he has little to no social skills.

He blew it and he should realize that there is a price to pay for his brash  response.  That's blocking him.  There is no point CAMMING HIM. He is simply an idiot.

I guess we're never gonna know now...oh well.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
I personally know several people who have had their MM accounts cancelled on the basis of accusations; no investigation was made.  If the "aforementioned" individual accuses you of anything against MM rules, my experience is that there is no guarantee your side of the issue will even be heard.

OMG!

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
...
He blew it and he should realize that there is a price to pay for his brash  response.  That's blocking him.  There is no point CAMMING HIM. He is simply an idiot.

Best move! Real idiot! If people on here were CAMmed for stupidity, the Mods would never get a moment to catch a breath! lol

CharlieMW wrote:
Its really not worth the time and effort to reply. Obviously this person has issues that do not start and end with you. I would just block them and move on. Conversationally, you are waltzing with a porcupine and it can only end badly for you.[/quote

Then there's Models who play games.]