JQuest wrote:
I'm sorry, perhaps I misread your post. I was under the impression that you didn't hire her because her portfolio, and her contact message didn't meet your expectations.

So how did the shoot go then?

Maybe I didn't word my message well enough then.  It's simply a matter of someone looking for paid work but not selling themselves.  I provided her message as an anonymous example to illustrate to others how a more positive and professional approach might better serve to promote and sell themselves.

When I'm reviewing people for modeling, or if I'm reviewing their resumes to work for me in the corporate world, I look for professionalism and a positive attitude.  I am not unique in this.  This is how the world works.  I don't want to hire people who won't be positive and professional, especially when I work to ensure that I am professional and provide a positive experience (thus the "excellent references" I mention in my bio).

Modeling is an industry where people judge your looks.  People will also critique them.  If people don't want to be critiqued then how will they know if there is some simple change they can make that could make all the difference in the world?  It would be like going on American Idol and saying you only want positive comments.  Do you see a downside to that?

I have few expectations, and go more on impressions, so when someone wants me to pay them for something but doesn't come across in a way that impresses me, they are unlikely to get my money.  In the case of this model I thought she could do much better with a little different approach, a willingness to 'start at the bottom' (do some TF to build the portfolio), and provide a more positive sounding bio on her main page.  It's really very simple.  It wasn't personal.  I even commented that she's a nice looking girl (much better than her current photos show), and a few good shots could mean the difference between having to write to people and ask for work, and them writing to her to offer her work.

This isn't personal.  You can say anything you want about my bio or my work.  Sometimes I even change things based on negative critiques, and hope that the larger perception improves as a result.  I'm actually rebuilding my entire website right now because people told me the slide shows were too slow and cumbersome, and there were too many images to look at, so I'm striving to improve it.

I understand she wants to make money at modeling.  Lots of people want to make money at it.  So you can go about it the way you go about it, or you can consider the input and opportunities people out there provide.

There was no shoot because I am way too busy right now and was not looking for anyone when she messaged me.  I was just offering some helpful advice to novices out there using a real-world example.

Todd Meredith wrote:
OP,
You make some very valid points.  Unfortunately, for most people here, they won't be either well accepted or understood.  I'll try to explain what I mean. 

...

Best of luck to everyone!

Excellent post!  Also, saying you'll only do paid work doesn't mean you'll get paid work.  Your bio and port should sell you.  I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who likes to work with positive, upbeat, professional people, so BE that person in your bio.  I grabbed the first two people highlighted on the MM home page and found them to be exactly what I'm talking about:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/3809605

https://www.modelmayhem.com/3646700

In both cases: polite, professional, positive, and clear.  And I would be willing to bet that in both cases they have a good handful of shots that were done TF in order to build their portfolio.  The shots are clear and clean and do a great job of showing prospective photographers what the models look like.  Maybe they even started out with lesser quality shots they no longer show, then did more TF with better photographers and 'traded-up'.  In both cases they want paid assignments, but in both cases they are open to TF for portfolio improvement and/or interesting ideas.

Just based on their bio and port alone I would hire them for a paid assignment.

What do you think?

Jules NYC wrote:
... if it seems like you are applying to Dow Jones, maybe it creates a mood/tone before you start.

This is generally accurate.

I try to keep emails pretty concise, and casual, now.

No one gives a shit about "who I am" and "why I'm here." They just want to see what you look like, if you photograph well, and if you seem basically sociable.

Koryn wrote:
Things have changed a lot over the years,  but I still toured actively last fall, earned money modeling, etc - and for the most part, working models prove themselves by their portfolios. You do need to be able to communicate in a polite, understandable way. But - some people love the professional "voice," and many, many hate it. There are no universal rules with this; one's branding and self-marketing as a model is highly individualized and different styles work for different models.

Photographers telling models how to market themselves is a moot point.

This, all this. Tbh, I've found that it's more common people (photogs and models alike)  won't even read your profile to begin with... But, I change my profile constantly to keep up with those that do. Sometimes it's short and sweet, sometimes it starts getting long again, but I try to keep it succinct and manageable for those with similar (or lesser) attention spans as myself.

Jules NYC wrote:
I tailor communication to the audience/client, same with writing style.
Professionalism has nothing to do with personality.

I don't think every photographer is looking for a valley girl cheerleader in persona but if it seems like you are applying to Dow Jones, maybe it creates a mood/tone before you start.

I think professionalism does have a correlation with personality.  In a job interview the interviewer is trying to imagine you in their business doing the job.  Picturing you with customers, how you would conduct yourself in meetings, among your peers, with management, etc.  Doesn't mean you need to have a glowing personality or much to say, but if you're negative or demanding it's imaginable that's how you'll be on the job.  That is the kind of thing I'm referring to: demanding or negative bios.  Telling everyone what you won't tolerate instead of telling people what you are hoping to get, for example.

No one is trying to imagine anyone here for much more than the job at-hand, I get that, but I don't want to spend all day with anyone who is going to be demanding, negative, or not enjoyable to work with.  Now if someone is offering a lot of money, that's a little different, because we all have to whore ourselves once in a while, but even then, if I'm paying a lot of money, it's all the more important that the people I'm considering working with don't come off like asshats.

I'm just an amateur photographer.  I pay sometimes.  I do TF sometimes.  I'm no one special.  I'm not a Vogue photographer.  But what if I was?  Would people feel differently about it then?  Would anyone send a negative, rule-filled bio to a photographer at Vogue or GQ?

AlternativeLens wrote:
I think professionalism does have a correlation with personality.  In a job interview the interviewer is trying to imagine you in their business doing the job.  Picturing you with customers, how you would conduct yourself in meetings, among your peers, with management, etc.  Doesn't mean you need to have a glowing personality or much to say, but if you're negative or demanding it's imaginable that's how you'll be on the job.  That is the kind of thing I'm referring to: demanding or negative bios.  Telling everyone what you won't tolerate instead of telling people what you are hoping to get, for example.

I hear what you are saying completely and agree but no one is trying to be the President or CEO here.  For MM, it's just a modeling shoot.  I've worked for magazines, catalogs, TV and the guy that can only pay me 50 bucks and trade with people I like.

I am me.
Pleasant, nice, warm & engaging.

I put that across in everything I do be it a corporate job or if I'm modeling.
Professionalism to me is being exceptional at what you do and having a solid work ethic to get it done. 

I've seen people act very casual and landing multi-million dollar deals (I used to work in finance and the mortgage industry) and still completely true, blue professionals.  Somehow I think people associate being professional with being a 'D' type personality.

I am an 'I' all the way and sometimes I can slip into 'D' mode.

https://www.discinsights.com/personalit … zU_iNQrJqM

Jules NYC wrote:
I am me.
Pleasant, nice, warm & engaging.

I put that across in everything I do be it a corporate job or if I'm modeling.
Professionalism to me is being exceptional at what you do and having a solid work ethic to get it done.

LOVED your post!  The part about Pleasant, nice, warm & engaging (or some positive variation) I think is what I was talking about in my original post.  There are a lot of bios that are very negative, suspicious, bossy, etc.  I understand they want to get the BS out of the way right up front, maybe due to bad experiences or maybe because of hearing about the risks, and I don't think I'm the only person (unless the subject has something REALLY special/desirable for my purposes) to move on to someone else.

I see a lot of people that look like great models, but having ignored the negativity in the bios just to have it walk in to my shoot and rain on the day has taught me to pay more attention.  Unfortunately you'll never get a photographer who will post in their bio: "BE FOREWARNED: I'm unhappily married and a closet pervert, whose first priority is to get you naked, then do anything I can to get you to engage in some kind of sexual conduct with me.".  Now THAT would change the face of MANY things, eh?

AlternativeLens wrote:
Unfortunately you'll never get a photographer who will post in their bio: "BE FOREWARNED: I'm unhappily married and a closet pervert, whose first priority is to get you naked, then do anything I can to get you to engage in some kind of sexual conduct with me.".  Now THAT would change the face of MANY things, eh?

Reminds me of that movie with Dudley Moore called "Crazy People" in which they told the honest truth in advertising campaigns.  If that becomes the trend, I'm sure what will follow.

Great line and fantastic work!