Requine wrote:
Hey Guys

I am looking for some advice getting photographers to start booking me for shoots. I was told being active on the site is one way to do it. Is there any other advice you can give me. I have built up my port through TF shoots and trying to get more paid work, but it seems really tricky.

Any advice is very appreciated

As with any service, you need to offer a good, competitive service and people need to know about it (marketing.)


Offering a competitive service:  Offer what photographers want to shoot at a competitive rate.  This means knowing your market.  If there are a lot of models willing to shoot glamour TF, then it's hard to charge for the same.   The stronger your portfolio, the more you will be seen as offering more.  I see many new models, pass good TF opportunities that could build their portfolio because they want high pay off the bat, but of course since they never get a descent portfolio, they never get good paying offers. 

Marketing: Post availability notices and reach out to photographers in your area who's profiles indicate you might be a good match.  Don't message photographers asking to be paid if they clearly state they are only looking for TF.   Some photographers search through models by last log in, so logging in frequently can help there.  Make sure your profile tells potential photographers what they need to know without turning them off.

Once, you and a photographer start discussing a shoot, be straight forward and to the point and don't drop communications.  When posting a casting give basic information, but don't write a book.  "Hey photographers, let's shoot"  doesn't tell me anything about what genre the model is open to, whether she wants TF or $100/hour, when she's available, etc.   Having unusual demands will turn a lot of photographer off, (wanting to bring spectators along to the shoot, wanting all RAW images, etc. )

Abbitt Photography wrote:

As with any service, you need to offer a good, competitive service and people need to know about it (marketing.)


Offering a competitive service:  Offer what photographers want to shoot at a competitive rate.  This means knowing your market.  If there are a lot of models willing to shoot glamour TF, then it's hard to charge for the same.

True - probably obvious, but definitely true. (I can't imagine many models want to be oggled by middle aged guys with cameras they can barely use for free, but the principle holds.)

The stronger your portfolio, the more you will be seen as offering more.

I've known models say that having shots that are too good in their port puts photographers off, because they don't want to be exposed to direct comparison.

I see many new models, pass good TF opportunities that could build their portfolio because they want high pay off the bat, but of course since they never get a descent portfolio, they never get good paying offers.

And how do you know this is true rather than just opinion? Again, I've been told - by models, on the basis of actual experience - that often photographers will pay to shoot a model while she is new, because she is new.

And really, if a model does decide she wants first rate shots, then

1. Most people here can't provide them

2. She can get what she needs in a single shoot with one carefully selected photographer

.. Doing a lot of trade when you are new is probably a bad strategy for a model. You won't even get better at posing - you're better practising that at home with a mirror, unless you get a chance to work with a decent commercial photographer; amateurs are typically terrible at model direction.

To the OP: I'd suggest remembering that advice from photographers is strongly coloured by what they want to believe, and to read this blog and other resource put together by successful  models

http://modelbitch.blogspot.co.uk/

Tony Lawrence wrote:
On sites like these it may be very hard to book paid work when you don't shoot nudes.   Photographers can often find attractive models who shoot non nude for TF but nudes can be harder.   I'm not suggesting the OP do nudes but just that she understands this.

Is that true in the US even for glamour? I'd be surprised. I'd certainly expect nude to pay more, but I'd have thought glamour trade shoots were the exception. I shoot trade only these days - but I shoot fashion. I get enough shoots from people putting together agency applications or starter ports once they've been signed, plus some extras from people who have a project they want to do. But shooting glamour for trade seems unlikely.

thiswayup wrote:
.. Doing a lot of trade when you are new is probably a bad strategy for a model. You won't even get better at posing - you're better practising that at home with a mirror, unless you get a chance to work with a decent commercial photographer; amateurs are typically terrible at model direction.

http://modelbitch.blogspot.co.uk/

I never said a model should just do a lot of trade.  I said it generally helps to have a stronger portfolio, so take advantage of opportunities including trade opportunities to do that.  Obviously, a model shouldn't do trade if she doesn't feel it will benefit her.

Your comment about a strong portfolio hurting models is just silly.  Sure, it's possible a strong portfolio may on rare occasion turn a photographer off, but overall, a strong portfolio opens up more and better shoots, not close doors.

Requine wrote:
Hey Guys

I am looking for some advice getting photographers to start booking me for shoots. I was told being active on the site is one way to do it. Is there any other advice you can give me. I have built up my port through TF shoots and trying to get more paid work, but it seems really tricky.

Any advice is very appreciated

If I were you I'd seek out photographers who have a good track record of selling quality prints. Most of them will be amateurs but they're very capable, know exactly how to get what they need and, importantly, pay good rates. Paying the model fits their circumstances very well.

thiswayup wrote:

Is that true in the US even for glamour? I'd be surprised. I'd certainly expect nude to pay more, but I'd have thought glamour trade shoots were the exception. I shoot trade only these days - but I shoot fashion. I get enough shoots from people putting together agency applications or starter ports once they've been signed, plus some extras from people who have a project they want to do. But shooting glamour for trade seems unlikely.

I would certainly second Tony's comment.   Lots of women want glamours photos of themselves, only a fraction however are comfortable doing nudes.  Basic supply and demand dictates those models willing to provide what is in limited supply will have more paid opportunities.  (on sites like these as Tony mentioned)  I've seen many full time traveling models indicate in the forums that doing nudes is the key to getting enough work to making a go of it.

Requine wrote:
Hey Guys

I am looking for some advice getting photographers to start booking me for shoots. I was told being active on the site is one way to do it. Is there any other advice you can give me. I have built up my port through TF shoots and trying to get more paid work, but it seems really tricky.

Any advice is very appreciated

K I M I L Y wrote:
If I were you I'd seek out photographers who have a good track record of selling quality prints. Most of them will be amateurs but they're very capable, know exactly how to get what they need and, importantly, pay good rates. Paying the model fits their circumstances very well.

How many photographers are there in a typical community, or even state,who have "a good track record of selling quality prints"?  I suspect very few.  And, rather than "paying good rates", many of them are likely to have all the trade work they want, for the same reason that they can sell prints.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
While being active & using this site might help, I believe that this site is in decline.  It's fine to work with this site, but I'd also advise you to find other ways, too.

In particular, devote some effort in networking locally.  You can use the "browse' feature above to find some photographers, models, stylists, etc. in your local area.  Get to know them.  Some areas (like mine) have an active photographic community, so finding an "in" can be a great help.

Don't neglect other social media sites, like Tumblr, Instragram, FB, etc.

Become a frequent visitor to gallery opens, various shows, etc.  In some cases, you might find volunteer activities that give you visibility to folks in the industry.  Be active.

Good luck.

Over the last three years or so, 90% of the models I shoot with come, directly or indirectly, from Facebook.

Art of the nude wrote:
Over the last three years or so, 90% of the models I shoot with come, directly or indirectly, from Facebook.

Could you please share some details about how to use Facebook to find models?  What kind of searches do you do?  How can you determine how "serious" (i.e. reliable, experienced) a "found" model is?  How does a model like the OP get started?  Any insight would be appreciated.

Art of the nude wrote:
And, rather than "paying good rates", many of them are likely to have all the trade work they want, for the same reason that they can sell prints.

By and large they don't want trade work - it's not in their best interest to operate on that basis.

Art of the nude wrote:
Over the last three years or so, 90% of the models I shoot with come, directly or indirectly, from Facebook.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Could you please share some details about how to use Facebook to find models?  What kind of searches do you do?  How can you determine how "serious" (i.e. reliable, experienced) a "found" model is?  How does a model like the OP get started?  Any insight would be appreciated.

Join networking groups; post your work, add models / young women who might want to model, whose looks fit your style.  Ask if they're interested in a shoot, and send your portfolio.  Always communicate professionally, and TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER WITHOUT ARGUMENT (that's true in general, but specifically mentioned in relation to shooting nudes).  Ask models you have had good results and good working relationships with whether they have friends who would like to get started.  Etc. 

I ask about portfolios, but probably a third of the models I've shot with from FB haven't modeled before.  I assume they AREN'T experienced, until I see otherwise.  If the OP wants to shoot, in order to use FB, just join groups, and say that you're interested in TF / trade shoots, with where you are and what you have in mind to shoot.  Then READ YOUR MESSAGES, and reply to those which deserve it, and so forth.

K I M I L Y wrote:

If I were you I'd seek out photographers who have a good track record of selling quality prints. Most of them will be amateurs but they're very capable, know exactly how to get what they need and, importantly, pay good rates. Paying the model fits their circumstances very well.

What suggestions would you offer to find these photographers who sell quality prints?   So amateurs are selling their work?   If so then perhaps they aren't amateurs.   Do these photographers who have a good track record of selling quality prints also pay for non nude models?   I go to a lot of art and photography shows.   The only photographs that seem to sell are nudes.   Not glamor styled imagery but art and usually black & white.   I actually know a few shooters who do pay models who pose nude for them but I wouldn't consider then amateurs.   Please share how the OP would located the photographers selling quality prints.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
What suggestions would you offer to find these photographers who sell quality prints?   So amateurs are selling their work?   If so then perhaps they aren't amateurs.   Do these photographers who have a good track record of selling quality prints also pay for non nude models?   I go to a lot of art and photography shows.   The only photographs that seem to sell are nudes.   Not glamor styled imagery but art and usually black & white.   I actually know a few shooters who do pay models who pose nude for them but I wouldn't consider then amateurs.   Please share how the OP would located the photographers selling quality prints.

Amateur in the sense that their photography isn't their primary income. Other than the prints they produce they do no other commercial photography. As is often the case their passion and expertise in what they do transcends anything you see professional [ie full-time] photographers doing.

Here's just one example, a photographer whose platinum prints I've purchased. He was kind enough to invite me to observe his process when he was resident in London. At that time he was employed in the City's banking sector and his studio was his nicely appointed dockside flat:

Ian Leake

I also know well many of the models who feature in his prints having worked with them myself too. There are other photographers like Ian around if models are prepared to travel.

Here's Ian's profile on MM: http://www.modelmayhem.com/ianleake. I could link other photographers.

As to finding out who these people are then networking with travelling models will be a good start but there are other ways of discovering them if you're prepared to use your noddle. I'm not sure whether exhibitions are a good way or not - I hardly ever visit them myself and I expect these guys are busy with their day jobs anyway. Word of mouth works fine for me.

On the question of nudity - what makes you think the OP wouldn't be interested in the style of images these guys produce, whether or not they include nudity? There's a wealth of models on sites like MM who are very selective in their nude modelling. Whether the OP is interested or not is up to her - I merely made a suggestion based on what I would do in her situation and having observed the progression of quite a few models over the years.

Whilst guys like Ian aren't on every street corner neither is paid work for models who keep their clothes on, a point made by others, not me. They do tend to offer repeat work though.

Believe it or not there's an entire world beyond the artificial cocoon many photographers seem to languish in here and on other modelling sites. On the whole models seem to be far more aware and appreciative of that than photographers.

K I M I L Y wrote:

Amateur in the sense that their photography isn't their primary income. Other than the prints they produce they do no other commercial photography. As is often the case their passion and expertise in what they do transcends anything you see professional [ie full-time] photographers doing.

Here's just one example, a photographer whose platinum prints I've purchased. He was kind enough to invite me to observe his process when he was resident in London. At that time he was employed in the City's banking sector and his studio was his nicely appointed dockside flat:

Ian Leake

I also know well many of the models who feature in his prints having worked with them myself too. There are other photographers like Ian around if models are prepared to travel.

Here's Ian's profile on MM: http://www.modelmayhem.com/ianleake. I could link other photographers.

As to finding out who these people are then networking with travelling models will be a good start but there are other ways of discovering them if you're prepared to use your noddle. I'm not sure whether exhibitions are a good way or not - I hardly ever visit them myself and I expect these guys are busy with their day jobs anyway. Word of mouth works fine for me.

On the question of nudity - what makes you think the OP wouldn't be interested in the style of images these guys produce, whether or not they include nudity? There's a wealth of models on sites like MM who are very selective in their nude modelling. Whether the OP is interested or not is up to her - I merely made a suggestion based on what I would do in her situation and having observed the progression of quite a few models over the years.

Whilst guys like Ian aren't on every street corner neither is paid work for models who keep their clothes on, a point made by others, not me. They do tend to offer repeat work though.

Believe it or not there's an entire world beyond the artificial cocoon many photographers seem to languish in here and on other modelling sites. On the whole models seem to be far more aware and appreciative of that than photographers.

The OP has no nudes checked on her profile and doesn't display any on her profile so I would think she isn't doing any and the people you mentioned do nudes.     OP, if you read this understand that by and large the bulk of any paid work on sites like these is for nude models.   You're cute as they come but short.   Sometimes photographers may pay models for stock photos.   The member I'm discussing this with isn't in Canada nor I'm I.   Toronto has a lot of fashion and commercial models so clothed work may be difficult to find.   Join all the websites.   OMP, https://models.com/index.html and others.   Look at sites like Craigslist.   Facebook is another resource.   I see you have done a workshop.   Look for more.   Here's a link to some workshops and more:   http://www.blogto.com/arts/2014/09/the_ … n_toronto/      Consider starting your own meet-up group.   Reach out to local designers.   Many can't pay but may use you for their clothing.   

Its all about networking.   Last, get a basic acting reel together.   Toronto has a decent size film and commercial market.
Being an extra in a film won't pay much but its often fun and the idea is to network as much as possible.    Last,  try to be flexible on rates, etc.

Requine wrote:
Hey Guys

I am looking for some advice getting photographers to start booking me for shoots.

Specifically, what kind of shoots. That is a very, very serious question. Are you looking to get booked for runway work? If so, photographers won't be the ones booking you in most cases. Are you looking to do modeling in trade shows? Again, photographers won't be booking you for that. Is it for nudes? Most likely that's going to be your primary source of income from photographers booking you but you won't shoot nudes so that rules that out.

So think about it, why would a photographer book you? For swimwear shoots? You're in Toronto...it will soon be below freezing out. Etc. Etc. Etc. The thing you need to realize is that very few photographers, outside of GWCs, book models for shoots unless their clients ask them to go book a model for their shoot. So the question is, what are YOU doing to market yourself into that industry? As a model, what are you doing to market yourself as a business...not as a model...as a business? Do you have business cards? Do you go to networking events? You're only 5'3" so the majority of agencies won't touch you. Basically, by you not shooting nudes and your height, you are very limited in your ability to drum up business unless you hustle like hell, and I don't mean doing an occasional TFP shoot. Agency models and nude models have it tough already, so with your limitations you just have to fight that much harder. Welcome to the real world and welcome to the business world.