Forums > General Industry > Looking for Intern

Photographer

Twisted Images

Posts: 96

Paterson, New Jersey, US

Wanted some ideas on the best places to post for an intern. I'm working on a coffee table book and need someone to do the type. It's unpaid but they would receive credit. Have tried on my Facebook page with no luck, was thinking of Craigslist? Looks like the castings on here are just photographer, model, etc. College boards only let you post if you're a company and I'm not.
Since it's not something that can done over the computer I don't think being near by is an issue.

Mar 17 17 02:23 pm Link

Photographer

Barry Kidd Photography

Posts: 3351

Red Lion, Pennsylvania, US

That doesn't actually sound like the task for an intern. 

-The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment;

-The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern;

-The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff;

-The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded;

-The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship; and

-The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.


Among other things that involve getting credit. As in hours toward education not a byline.

Have a peek at this.
http://www.eanj.org/newsroom/thinking-h … mer-beware

Mar 17 17 02:37 pm Link

Photographer

Carle Photo

Posts: 475

New Orleans, Louisiana, US

Credit for a self published vanity book?

Ya, try craigslist...

Watch you post get flagged for being a scam in 5 minutes .


If you need a graphic designer then hire one, or trade something of actual value, not credit on an experimental "passion project".

If you DO have a good following and people clamoring to help you on your projects then ask your fan base direct.

Mar 17 17 03:10 pm Link

Artist/Painter

Hunter GWPB

Posts: 8188

King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US

Twisted Images wrote:
Since it's not something that can done over the computer I don't think being near by is an issue.

There is something wrong with that last sentence.  Should it be: "since it is"?

However, there is something wrong and offensive with the entire premise.  If it worth doing, it is worth doing well.  If it is worth doing well, pay someone accordingly.  Or learn the software yourself.

Interns that are unpaid are interning at a place where they will make significant contacts and jump start a career.  And that ought to be illegal, anyway.  There use to be this thing called minimum wage.

Mar 17 17 03:26 pm Link

Photographer

REMOVED

Posts: 1546

Atlanta, Georgia, US

Nothing for something.

Mar 17 17 03:59 pm Link

Photographer

Leonard Gee Photography

Posts: 18096

Sacramento, California, US

Twisted Images wrote:
It's unpaid but they would receive credit.

that's not what "intern" means. it is not free labor. an intern gets to learn a real job under a mentor where the experience is educational and receive school credits that apply to graduation. a curt notice in a self published book that may or may not sell a few copies by an unknown author is not "credit".

also, there is such a thing as a paid intern. it has become more common in california. for new jersey:

The New Jersey Wage and Hour Law, unlike Federal Labor laws, statutorily provides a test for legal unpaid interns. It is more strict than the test created by the U.S. Department of Labor.

Barry Kidd Photography wrote:
-The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.

that quote is incorrect and out of context. there is the full text:

The employer and the trainee share a basic understanding that regular employment wages are not due for the time spent in training, provided that the trainee does not perform any productive work.

like other states, new jersey does not allow interns to do work which a regular employee is able to do.
http://www.internlaw.com/unpaid-interns … abor-laws/
http://riker.com/publications/unpaid-in … the-answer

Mar 17 17 04:20 pm Link

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 26342

Portland, Oregon, US

Barry Kidd Photography wrote:
-The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern.

I used to work at a Fortune 50 company, and we "hired" a lot of interns during the summer.  They were a lot of work for us regular people, because we provided training, mentors, structured social activities, educational events, and meaningful (though admittedly non-critical) projects.

One of the managers there had the best quote regarding these interns:

.          Summer help, and some are not.

I agree with the other folks.  It seems like you are looking for free labor, not for an intern.  What does "your" intern expect to learn by working with/for you?

Mar 17 17 04:49 pm Link

Photographer

Twisted Images

Posts: 96

Paterson, New Jersey, US

Oh brother, this is exactly why I avoid MM lately, snarky comments. Sorry that my project is deemed unworthy and is spam.

Mar 17 17 08:47 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45198

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Twisted Images wrote:
Oh brother, this is exactly why I avoid MM lately, snarky comments. Sorry that my project is deemed unworthy and is spam.

Hey,  I'm sorry you feel that way, but you'll  run into the negative, jealous and snarky people every where on the 'net.

I'm in a similar situation where I need help with some intellectual property projects.  I need a programmer, editor and so on.  I've posted on Craigslist with some success, but I must warn you that there will probably be those that attack you on there by flagging your ads.  I quickly repost by changing a few words in the header and body of the message.  To be quite honest with you ...  the motto "You get what you pay for" is TRUE!  I pay models, and I also pay others like my programmer and editor. If you are going to make an income from your project, it's the ethical thing to do.

Mar 17 17 09:26 pm Link

Artist/Painter

Hunter GWPB

Posts: 8188

King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US

Twisted Images wrote:
Oh brother, this is exactly why I avoid MM lately, snarky comments. Sorry that my project is deemed unworthy and is spam.

Oh, I am so sorry that you have been treated poorly here.  We all should have just jumped on the bandwagon and encouraged you to break the law and abuse someone with your project.  (How is that for snark?)  You made a post and we gave you our perspective.  Obviously, you recognize that your project has some short comings or you would have explained to us why we are wrong in our perspective.  Instead, you just used some snark of your own.

The difference between the response that you got in this thread and your other thread about the book, is you.

I am fully on board with YOU developing your self published book.  Good luck to you.

Mar 18 17 02:18 am Link

Photographer

Derek Ridgers

Posts: 1625

London, England, United Kingdom

Twisted Images wrote:
Oh brother, this is exactly why I avoid MM lately, snarky comments. Sorry that my project is deemed unworthy and is spam.

I think you’re being a bit unfair. 

I think people are prepared to help on these forums but it won’t always be in the way you expect or want. 

It may not seem fair but life isn’t fair.  And if you just want an intern to do your design donkey work, that doesn’t seem particularly fair to me either.

My advice is this.

Pay someone. 

They may not charge you that much because it won’t take them long.

If you have all the images ready, even a big coffee table book of 300 pages or more should not take more than about a week to design and lay out IMHO.

If you are going to be using Blurb it could take even less time.

I see you already have a title and a logo for the book and the brash colourful style of the photos should mean that this is a VERY easy book to put together.

If it isn’t, you are doing something wrong.

Mar 18 17 03:07 am Link

Photographer

Darren Brade

Posts: 3351

London, England, United Kingdom

People expect to be paid for work otherwise you have to justify why they should work with you for free.

In my experience, those that can do that do so, those that cannot have a strop!

Mar 18 17 03:51 am Link

Photographer

Dan Howell

Posts: 3562

Kerhonkson, New York, US

Twisted Images wrote:
Sorry that my project is deemed unworthy and is spam.

Sorry that reality and your opinion are so far apart.

Mar 18 17 04:28 am Link

Photographer

Mark Salo

Posts: 11726

Olney, Maryland, US

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
...  We all should have just jumped on the bandwagon and encouraged you...

+1

Mar 18 17 06:42 am Link

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 26342

Portland, Oregon, US

Twisted Images wrote:
Oh brother, this is exactly why I avoid MM lately, snarky comments. Sorry that my project is deemed unworthy and is spam.

I think you are getting the wrong message here.  Several of us have tried to inform you that what you seek does not fall under the legal definition of internship.  With those of us with experience and/or knowledge of the matter, we think you are laboring under false assumptions.

This is a learning opportunity for you.  Pointing out the flaws in your assumptions is a service we are providing to you.  It ain't our fault if you are trying to get away with something semi-shady. 

Good luck on your quest for free labor.

Mar 18 17 07:49 am Link

Photographer

Carle Photo

Posts: 475

New Orleans, Louisiana, US

Twisted Images wrote:
Oh brother, this is exactly why I avoid MM lately, snarky comments. Sorry that my project is deemed unworthy and is spam.

If you have any experience on Craigslist then you will KNOW that these sorts of (work for free) projects ARE in FACT flagged as spam over & over again. Us educating you on this is not snark, it is a lesson that you can learn from those who are more experienced or you can go to Craigslist & waste time learning it yourself.

The worth of any project is determined by several factors, not just your passion for it.

I have seen several small projects self published a few years later they were picked up & financed by others.
The issue is UNTIL you can sell it to others, it has NO value other than what you are placing on it.

If this project is not worth you even paying yourself, then how is it worth having other people pay? (with their time/skills)

By having a graphic designer work for free (credit) you are taking time away from their billable jobs.
Why would you do that?

Mar 18 17 07:52 am Link

Photographer

Loki Studio

Posts: 3523

Royal Oak, Michigan, US

Twisted Images wrote:
Oh brother, this is exactly why I avoid MM lately, snarky comments. Sorry that my project is deemed unworthy and is spam.

It's not that your project is unworthy, its just that most people have a hard time understanding why you would pay for the cameras, computers, and printing to make the book-but not a critical creative collaborator.

Upwork.com is freelance marketplace for creatives around the world that will often save you considerable $$$ if you can use remote freelancers from emerging markets.

Mar 18 17 08:50 am Link

Photographer

Leonard Gee Photography

Posts: 18096

Sacramento, California, US

i would take from your reply that you have not read any of the links provided nor thought about what has been said on the many good posts about this subject. what you want to do may be illegal. in new jersey, the fine is $10,000 per incident plus additional fees & possible jail time. since the intern process has been much abused, it is a prime target for state labor boards.

"If your business is investigated by the DOL, the repercussions could be serious. An employer who violates the minimum wage requirements not only must pay the intern minimum wage and overtime for the time worked, but is liable for an equal amount as liquidated damages. 29 U.S.C. § 216(b). If the employer is sued, then it can also be liable for attorneys' fees and costs. Moreover, a person who willfully violates the FLSA may be fined up to $10,000 per violation and faces potential prison time."

as an example, have a friend that was working for a local business. they had her work through lunch and had her work extra hours after "work" without additional pay. this is absolutely against the labor laws in the state. told them to go to the labor board and the state labor board came down on the business like a ton of bricks. evidently this was the third infraction. they got their state license pulled and were penalized fees, charged back taxes, plus had to pay retroactively all their employees.

http://nj1015.com/paid-or-unpaid-interns-have-rights/
https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm

“They’d have grounds to either file a claim with the Department of Labor, or a lawsuit,” Caminiti said
Many times, employers aren’t trying to get away with having work done on the cheap. They could be unfamiliar with the rules, perhaps just helping a friend’s kid gain experience in the field. But in this case, no good deed goes unpunished.

Twisted Images wrote:
Oh brother, this is exactly why I avoid MM lately, snarky comments. Sorry that my project is deemed unworthy and is spam.

snarky? some of those replies were from experienced and thoughtful people trying to inform you of a mistaken perception. what the employer thinks is right is not relevant - you must meet the criteria defined by law and the courts. your project (i.e. the precious book) is your problem. the use of a intern for labor is what we addressed.

Mar 18 17 09:08 am Link

Photographer

Keith Moody

Posts: 548

Phoenix, Arizona, US

I guess this begs the question:  If some random guy on the street asked you to do photography (as an intern for credit) for his self-published book, would you do it?

Mar 18 17 09:09 am Link

Photographer

LA StarShooter

Posts: 2731

Los Angeles, California, US

People who have commented here have attempted to help you, some going so far as to quote Labour law. You should really thank them all for being so helpful. You are making a mistake in that one or two may be potential customers for your book. Getting offeneded and then showing you're offended is something to think about--alienating helpful people is never in your interest.

Mar 18 17 11:26 am Link

Photographer

REMOVED

Posts: 1546

Atlanta, Georgia, US

The advise that you resent is advise which will keep you clear of US Labor Relations Board action against you.

A simple Thanks would suffice.

Mar 31 17 01:35 pm Link