|
Forums >
General Industry >
Should I stop asking IG women to model?
I've been using my IG profile to find models. It hosts only my revealing images, and whose bio says that models MUST be 18+ and okay with full nudity. 1) I get girls who are the first to make contact, and they'll send me a lot of messages at once and ask to shoot. Suddenly, they then vanish. I suspect they were drunk or high and then changed their minds. Seem right? 2) I get girls that totally waste my time. The most recent one is a girl that was also the first to make contact (she messaged me, not the reverse). She said she'd 'be about nakey' pics. Later she asked if full nude or lingerie was up to her. I told her no; I only offer nude shoots when doing trade work, but that I'd be willing to do a combination... She continued sending me ideas, etc. over the next week. When I sent ideas back to her, she freaked out! They were nude pics, and she said she can't do nudes; that we had talked about lingerie and topless. First, we did talk about lingerie; I said no to doing only that. Second, not once was topless mentioned. What a total waste of time. 3) There was a girl that I did a nude shoot with. After a few months, she sent me a message and told me that she had a wonderful time and would like to do pics again. I scheduled with her, and then she totally bailed. She didn't even tell me she wasn't coming, and didn't send me a message at any point to explain. She didn't even open the message that I sent to her (I think I asked if she was still planning to come). I could go on, but tell me about your experiences. Is there hope, or should I move on before wasting more of my time? Mar 21 20 07:13 pm Link Ideal Portraits SD wrote: I mean, your post would have been just as relevant if you had been referring to MM at any point during the last 10 years. It's pretty much the way it's always been, and will always be, regardless of the platform (at least in my experience). Mar 21 20 07:24 pm Link Wandering Eyebubble wrote: Seriously? I expected a lot more professionalism from members of this site. That's very disappointing. I'm about ready to throw in the towel and only ever take out my camera when I'm being paid (which will mean almost exclusively weddings). I do have one idea though, which I plan to later make another thread about. Mar 21 20 07:26 pm Link Ideal Portraits SD wrote: I'm afraid so. If anything people seem to think IG is actually better (I don't have an account there myself). I suspect it's all more or less the same. Mar 21 20 07:35 pm Link Wandering Eyebubble wrote: I've met a few good models. The problem is that they're so rare, and they eventually either decide they have enough pics or they move; it seems that no one actually wants to live in Rapid City, SD. Mar 21 20 07:41 pm Link I have only been on IG for about a year Its been a somewhat effective communication tool with respect to fashion models that i have first met in real life ( few seem to use fb any more ) and has helped me facilitate some shoots . If I go to a fashion event ( like our fashion week ) now - I just take my Ipad - show a potential model my work on IG and ask her to provide / type in her name so i can follow her . This has led to a handful of shoots I have sent cold call messages out to a couple dozen models whose look I like ( along the West Coast ) Models who have anywhere from a thousand to a million followers and have not gotten much response - really only 2 but both had gained national prominence ( ie been featured in national advertising campaigns ) Both were interested in shooting with Me but only 1 did as the agent of the second model vetoed the shoot ( presumably because i had not gone through him . and or maybe my photography did not meet his standard ) I have had one aspiring fashion model contact / hire me through IG and I agreed to shoot with her as she appeared to have real potential . That resulted in a good shoot In my view IG only one of several ways that a photographer can connect with models . Real Life is always best Mar 21 20 09:00 pm Link Garry k wrote: What's a good real life way to ask potential models if they're interested in doing a nude shoot? Mar 21 20 09:07 pm Link Ideal Portraits SD wrote: redacted Mar 21 20 09:34 pm Link Yep, even in it's heyday MM had many flakes and stories like yours were commonplace. After a while you develop a skill for sensing how serious they are. I always recommend measuring your risk appropriately. But personally I think IG is a total waste of time and pray for it's death. Mar 21 20 09:43 pm Link Gary Davis wrote: Agreed Mar 21 20 09:54 pm Link Ideal Portraits SD wrote: Weddings and Events are the most common ways that i know to make $ using your camera Mar 22 20 12:15 am Link Garry k wrote: They're incredibly unsatisfying. You don't get to make them very artistic because you have to operate within severe constraints: time, the types of images the client wants, people being in the way, harsh lighting, etc. Mar 22 20 12:36 am Link My biggest beef with IG is that lots of models do not have their location on their profiles. I take it as they are not interested in photoshoots, they create their own material for Patreon etc. Mar 22 20 12:53 am Link Ideal Portraits SD wrote: Offer to pay them. It's that simple. Mar 22 20 01:21 am Link I've never once heard a convincing explanation for it, and it is a pattern that repeats as often, and as predictably, in the UK, and has done for years. Thing is, only models know why they flake. Actually, I believe photographers often do as well. I believe, from what I have read, that photographers cancelling paid gigs are the bane of touring models' life. You can avoid it if you are happy to take no chances and just book models who appear (from their notes) well organised, articulate and businesslike. If you try to book someone who is talking about dreams and making it then you are more likely to get flaked on. One solution, using UK rates, is to cast for models and offer a set fee of £250 plus travel for a day's work. That might seem cheap to US models but here that is enough to get you enquiries from models who are going to turn up and turn out to be worth having booked. Your problems start if you try to do this on the cheap. Your problems are magnified if you are trying to do it on the cheap and you don't have a lot to offer, either in terms of cash or images that are genuinely good or some kind of exposure that has value. One thing that helps to understand - but it isn't a particularly pleasant realisation - is that if you are really very good models will be asking you to shoot with them, and they will be models you want to shoot. This I know not from personal experience but from observation. It is no different for models. Those who stand out will take much of the limited money available for models in the amateur/hobbyist market. So it is highly competitive, and actually very fair. May 09 20 06:03 pm Link On Mayhem, the big problem is models who don't go on the site to check their messages. Or who stop logging in at all after a few months. That said, once a shoot is scheduled, I have had few problems. Only a couple of bad eggs. I think reading their credits and their profile statements helps weed out the oddballs. I find some models elsewhere -- asking women I meet in social contexts -- but most of my models, I find here. I won't touch Instagram; I detest the Facebook Empire and I refuse to encourage platforms so f^cked-up they will censor a nipple. Since my model work is pretty much all nude work, there is very little I'd be able to put on IG without alteration. May 09 20 07:31 pm Link TEB-Art Photo wrote: Any MM member can set up a re-direct so their messages go to their email. Then you don't need to go to the site to check messages. May 09 20 08:02 pm Link 10-5-3-2-1 May 09 20 08:57 pm Link If you only offer nudes for trade, you will have much less success than the 1,000s of photographers who pay well $100 an for nudes. Plus if models will not likely get photos in a style that they can easily use for social media, they won't consider it a valuable trade. May 11 20 08:46 am Link TEB-Art Photo wrote: I've noticed that several models that I've become fairly close friends with and have shot on multiple occasions have become MM members over the past 6 months or so, and most of them haven't logged in for at least two or three months. I won't touch Instagram; I detest the Facebook Empire and I refuse to encourage platforms so f^cked-up they will censor a nipple. Since my model work is pretty much all nude work, there is very little I'd be able to put on IG without alteration. The problem is when I hear models/photographers exchanging contact information. The phrase "What's Your MM Number?" has been REPLACED by "What's your Instagram?". I NEVER hear MM mentioned at all anymore.... not at all! May 11 20 09:20 am Link I think booking independent models directly comes with less accountability and a higher risk of flaking than with agency booked models. That's just the nature of the game. Obviously offering more pay helps, but is still no guarantee a model will show. In terms of venues to use to book models use whatever you feel works for you and discard any approach that's more trouble than it's worth. I've had no luck with instagram, but some find it a great way to book models. I've had fairly good luck with Craigslist (better the MM), but other photographers have no luck with CL. Some photographers are great about approaching attractive women to model, some aren't. Do whatever works for you. I don't think there is any one size fits all approach. Probably the biggest thing that has helped me is to just assume a model is likely to cancel or flake and look at it as a bonus when they do follow through. I don't spend money on shoots that may never happen and don't give up anything important for a shoot with an independent model. May 11 20 09:37 am Link SayCheeZ! wrote: So the world has moved on. I suppose Instagram is more open to the world. I also guess Instagram is more catholic as a platform, so there is more potential mixing of models, photographers, studios, agencies and other related industry people, all of whom you could connect with. May 11 20 12:30 pm Link SayCheeZ! wrote: I don't think it is either. May 12 20 01:36 am Link Ideal Portraits SD wrote: You should check what's best for you. May 12 20 07:51 am Link PHP-Photography wrote: ^^^^ this... exactly May 12 20 08:51 am Link I've worked in several industries, from aerospace, military, engineering, retail sails and photography. The one thing I can tell you is none of them are easy. Unless you are giving away big gold bars with every proposal, people are going to flake and ghost on you. Escentually, if people don't feel they have a commitment to you, they will move away from you. You also need to listen and comprehend better. In the example you gave, the model changed her mind about shooting full nude. Guess what, anything you agreed to before is gone. The model has the right to choose how she is portrayed even if she changes her mind at the last second. And YOU don't want to be known as a photographer that tries to coerce a model to shoot themes she is against. If you are paying a model and she decides she doesn't want to shoot the full nudity that you originally agreed to, then deduct what you think is reasonable from the rate and move on. In over 600 model shoot, i've only had one shoot like that. In fact, when I detected resistance, I shut the shoot down and took her and her boyfriend to the bus station. You are not going to have a 100% capture rate, so get used to people backing out. The biggest failure to come to a shoot are the models that give a long date, like a month or 2 in advance. Something always happens, flat tire, dead cell phone, sick cat, have to babysit, ailing grandmother, work shift changes and the list goes on. I do find MM better than IG, FB, Diverxity and others. I think the models here are a little more serious as they have more work to do to maintain a profile here. I can check what city the are in. I can see the last time they logged in. And there may be some references from people they worked with. It is interesting to read the profile statements. I find when the profile statement is short, weak and non-descriptive that the model hasn't put much work onto her page and I can likely expect her performance to be the same. Look at the profile statement as a resume. The photos might be nice, but the text will tell you more. IG is predicated on being quick and simple. Facebook is predicated on telling your friends what colour the umbrella was in your tropical drink. May 12 20 10:07 am Link I've never tried IG but another local photographer from MM told me he gets better results on IG than here on MM. I just don't know how the demographics would work out. Too broad an area, too broad a target group that may or may not have any real interest in a shoot. Maybe a lot more wanna-bees. I may have to give IG a try as my selection here on MM is waning. Last year I had a great model, photographed really well, so well I told her to raise her fees as I was willing to pay more she was so good. I shot her several times and set up a shoot at the same church that Trump was married in (which I had to give a large donation to the church). Two hours before the shoot she calls me and says she had to drive her roommate down to Miami and couldn't make it back for the shoot.... that was the last time that I talked with her. Getting models that show interest and actually go through with the shoot is getting to be a crap shoot (even though I pay all models). May 12 20 03:04 pm Link Dorola wrote: One thing that is useful is to realise that if you ask for availability and the reply is vaguely indicating several weeks' time then the shoot isn't going to happen. It is the model's way of telling you she isn't interested, so don't pursue it. Just reiterating the point you made. May 12 20 04:26 pm Link Wandering Eyebubble wrote: i never get used to it although i do kinda expect it. i did a paid shoot once involving two separate models replying to a casting call i had on here. both no called no showed. shoot would have been super awkward if only one had shown up so better they both flaked instead of just one. one of them was even good to go 12 hours prior to the shoot. i gave them a couple days to message me (without me having to prompt them to), they didn't, i blocked them so they wouldn't waste my time again. May 17 20 07:02 am Link You're letting people waste your time. You're going over details about shoots that were NEVER booked. Stop the chit chat & detail work until you have a confirmed shoot BOOKED. If someone wants to shoot with me, they have to get the date/time/location/pay/what to be delivered all sorted BEFORE we talk about shoot details. I do NOT even storyboard shoots until I have the info nailed down. If you have a special project that YOU want to do YOUR way, then YOU need to put together a portfolio of that project, get 10 images that represent what you want to accomplish and keep those images on one portfolio/page/file/pintrest.... Then all you have to do is send people to that link and let them agree or not. Done! Do NOT waste time chit chatting about projects with no moodboard or portfolio. Do your homework first. If I want to host an open theme shoot, then I still start with the details first, no need to waste time on discussing outfits when they can't even figure out how to look at their calendar. Once I nail down day/time/place/pay I let them know to bring 3 outfits they want to shoot in. Done! No need to go back & forth with bring this or don't bring that. Just tell them to bring 3 outfits, now you both have a choice to make something work. Simple. May 23 20 07:05 pm Link |
