Model
Iona Lynn 2
Posts: 57
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
How many messages does it take a photographer to book a photo session?
1-2
3-6
6-Let's just chit chat & never actually shoot anything...
What is your preferred casting info & how many photo sessions a week do you average?
I find it fascinating that people are expected to agree to a photo session when they have no info other than who they may be working with.
No time frame
No location
No length of the shoot
No pay rate (Even with TFP, I need to know how many PRINTS I'll get)
What is the solution?
Photographer
Znude!
Posts: 3320
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US
It usually takes me two messages. Now and then there may be a third exchange if questions arise about the location.
Of course this depends on the first message ever getting a response from the model.
You probably come from a generation where people were taught to show up for work on time or a little early, answer messages, be helpful, be respectful, be professional, etc. And now you are trying to mix those values into a world that might not follow those disciplines. It's a tough match to make.
Body Painter
BodyPainter Rich
Posts: 18107
Sacramento, California, US
Well Iona, Given your low post count in this forum, and your status as a model, I am going to assume that you don't have much experience in arranging shoots. Sometimes it is necessary to use many messages in order to get to know a model and see if they will be receptive to what you are proposing. Once you have worn them down... I mean once you have established a professional relationship you can then meet them at a neutral public location for coffee or drinks. Be sure to be generous at this part because you want them to associate you with having a nice time... it also increases the chance that they will give you extra time without charging the full rate.  Once they know you... just give them a date, a concept, and a place to show up to. You can work out all the details after. /sarcasm In reality- the solution is for everyone to treat everyone else as if their time is as valuable as yours. Respect that. Getting people to PRACTICE this solution??? Good luck. Iona Lynn 2 wrote:
How many messages does it take a photographer to book a photo session?
1-2
3-6
6-Let's just chit chat & never actually shoot anything...
What is your preferred casting info & how many photo sessions a week do you average?
I find it fascinating that people are expected to agree to a photo session when they have no info other than who they may be working with.
No time frame
No location
No length of the shoot
No pay rate (Even with TFP, I need to know how many PRINTS I'll get)
What is the solution?
Photographer
NakeyPiX
Posts: 733
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Iona Lynn 2 wrote:
How many messages does it take a photographer to book a photo session?
1-2
3-6
6-Let's just chit chat & never actually shoot anything... Things certainly have changed with the Twitter generation.
In the early days of MM I used to send out castings that were basically a paragraph or two which listed the details including date, time, location, wardrobe requirments, and other important information along those lines.
I would get a pretty good response rate, maybe 75-80%. The shoots were usually confirmed within one or two messages.
During the past dozen years or so the response rate dwindled down to nearly nothing.
Research indicates that the newer models think that reading a paragraph is too long and won't bother reading it.
The usual response from either a private or publicly displayed casting call is usually just one word: "interested".
Now they just want one sentence at a time, so now it takes at least a dozen or so one line sentences and another 12 replies from them before they ghost you. It's sad, but that's our modern society for ya!
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 11729
Olney, Maryland, US
BodyPainter Rich wrote:
Well Iona,
Given your low post count in this forum, and your status as a model, I am going to assume that you don't have much experience in arranging shoots. LOL
Model
Alexandra Vincent
Posts: 308
Asheville, North Carolina, US
BodyPainter Rich wrote:
Well Iona,
Given your low post count in this forum, and your status as a model, I am going to assume that you don't have much experience in arranging shoots. Iona is an OG of the traveling model community. She was active here in the early 00s, and remains an important part of MM's history - as both a model and photographer.
And also, she's a wonderful and kind human being. ❤
Model
Alexandra Vincent
Posts: 308
Asheville, North Carolina, US
Mark Salo wrote:
LOL Dude, IKR?!?
Model
Iona Lynn 2
Posts: 57
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
BodyPainter Rich wrote:
Well Iona,
Given your low post count in this forum, and your status as a model, I am going to assume that you don't have much experience in arranging shoots. Alexandra Vincent wrote:
Iona is an OG of the traveling model community. She was active here in the early 00s, and remains an important part of MM's history - as both a model and photographer.
And also, she's a wonderful and kind human being. ❤ Rich is an old friend too.
Back on topic... Like HOW are people expected to agree to a shoot when NO details are given....
Like is this 2 hours or 12?
$200 payment or 1 print & a moldy turkey sandwich?
In climate controlled studio or 102 degree heat wave?
*headdeak*
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9781
Bellingham, Washington, US
Iona Lynn 2 wrote:
How many messages does it take a photographer to book a photo session?
1-2
3-6
6-Let's just chit chat & never actually shoot anything...
What is your preferred casting info & how many photo sessions a week do you average?
I find it fascinating that people are expected to agree to a photo session when they have no info other than who they may be working with.
No time frame
No location
No length of the shoot
No pay rate (Even with TFP, I need to know how many PRINTS I'll get)
What is the solution? None of this is difficult.
Since it never happens it is impossible.
My solution is to focus on songwriting.
You may prefer another pursuit.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
How difficult is it?
... It can be as difficult as one party (or both) may wish to make it.
A solution?
... If I feel I am chit-chatting with a time-waster ... I would simply present this person with a copy of my terms and conditions for their consideration.
Photographer
fotopfw
Posts: 962
Kerkrade, Limburg, Netherlands
I've worked with quite a few working models from Slavic countries. Exchange began here on MM, and when we agreed to work, after 1 message each, we did the rest with WhatsApp. Then only exchanges on time of arrival, or where to pick them up from the train. Afterwards thanks to and fro. They all were good communicators, read an remembered all I wrote to them.
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 11729
Olney, Maryland, US
Model
Iona Lynn 2
Posts: 57
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Camera Buff wrote:
How difficult is it?
... It can be as difficult as one party (or both) may wish to make it.
A solution?
... If I feel I am chit-chatting with a time-waster ... I would simply present this person with a copy of my terms and conditions for their consideration. That is a good solution, I might as well set up a few lights and do my own photos while I'm at it.
Model
Iona Lynn 2
Posts: 57
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Shadow Dancer wrote:
None of this is difficult.
Since it never happens it is impossible.
My solution is to focus on songwriting.
You may prefer another pursuit. I'm staying busy with photographic clients, getting paid well, & having fun, it is just here on MM, I keep getting asked about modeling yet, no one wants to actually set up the photo session. Oh well.
Body Painter
BodyPainter Rich
Posts: 18107
Sacramento, California, US
Alexandra Vincent wrote:
Iona is an OG of the traveling model community. She was active here in the early 00s, and remains an important part of MM's history - as both a model and photographer.
And also, she's a wonderful and kind human being. ❤ Alexandra, perhaps you missed the /sarcasm in my post. Iona and I have been friends for years and I am incredibly well aware of her talent, vision, and experience.
I suppose I should be MORE upset that you don't recognize MY place in MM history as the original Stylist forum mod, early founding member, moderator, and bon vivant!
Alas, all things come to pass. LOL
(I actually appreciate you supporting my friend in the face of a perceived troll, good on you!)
Body Painter
BodyPainter Rich
Posts: 18107
Sacramento, California, US
Iona Lynn 2 wrote:
Back on topic... Like HOW are people expected to agree to a shoot when NO details are given....
Like is this 2 hours or 12?
$200 payment or 1 print & a moldy turkey sandwich?
In climate controlled studio or 102 degree heat wave?
*headdeak* I really did mean what I said at the end of my post. It comes down to EVERYONE respecting the time and energy of EVERYONE else. But given the way our culture keeps sliding, I think people are much more interested in establishing power dynamics.
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9781
Bellingham, Washington, US
Iona Lynn 2 wrote:
I'm staying busy with photographic clients, getting paid well, & having fun, it is just here on MM, I keep getting asked about modeling yet, no one wants to actually set up the photo session. Oh well. Good on you!!!!
I've had no shoots for years, just kinda gave up. I think I have one pending, we've done the one message and the meet for coffee thing and it looks like a go for late May.
Nothing surprises me, I've been a gigging musician for 40+ years and musicians might be less socially accomplished than their peers in the photographic arts.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
Iona Lynn 2 wrote:
That is a good solution, I might as well set up a few lights and do my own photos while I'm at it. I am pleased to have helped you to find a good DIY solution. There are models on MM who have taken photo sessions into their own hands/studios and their self portrait efforts have been remarkably creative and successful.
Photographer
LnN Studio
Posts: 303
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Usually three to four max to book it and if it is not in near future ( two or more weeks) may be a couple of follow ups
Photographer
Sliver-Sliver
Posts: 175
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Iona Lynn 2 wrote:
Back on topic... Like HOW are people expected to agree to a shoot when NO details are given....
Like is this 2 hours or 12?
$200 payment or 1 print & a moldy turkey sandwich?
In climate controlled studio or 102 degree heat wave? Your desire for a rapid conclusion to negotiations makes sense (to me) if one or both parties goes into the interaction knowing exactly what the parameters are. What I shoot and how I shoot and what I charge (or not) isn’t going to be decided until I’ve had a discussion with the prospective subject. The inclusion of genres A, B, and C in a model's portfolio doesn’t necessarily imply that the model wants to shoot A, B, or C with me. Similarly, the fact that I have styles X, Y, and Z in my portfolio doesn’t necessarily assume that I want to photography X, Y, or Z with the particular model in question.
How long (it might be 2 h, it might be 12; it depends), what wardrobe, what deliverables, how much, what date are all interconnected variables for me. I don’t just plug random generic unfamiliar people into preconceived ideas; it’s not how I’m interested in (sic) creating. How long that conversation takes depends on how amenable all parties are in engaging in discussing those details. Those who won’t or can’t dive into details end up being people I’m unlikely to photograph, and I’m okay with that. Personally, I don't ask people to agree to a shoot, I ask them to agree to a discussion about a possible shoot, and thereby discover common ground (or not). My way isn’t the right way, but it’s the right way for me. Others have the right way for them, and I don't begrudge them that.
Photographer
JSouthworth
Posts: 1830
Kingston upon Hull, England, United Kingdom
Probably no more than five or six messages each way to book the shoot.
Photographer
Robert Randall
Posts: 13890
Chicago, Illinois, US
BodyPainter Rich wrote:
Well Iona,
Given your low post count in this forum, and your status as a model, I am going to assume that you don't have much experience in arranging shoots. Gosh, you go away for a couple of minutes and your status gets dumped overnight. 
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9781
Bellingham, Washington, US
Robert Randall wrote:
Gosh, you go away for a couple of minutes and your status gets dumped overnight. Welcome back, Sir Bob!!!!
Iona and Body Painter Rich are friends of long standing, he's just goofing on her.
Photographer
Teila K Day Photography
Posts: 2039
Panama City Beach, Florida, US
Iona Lynn 2 wrote:
How many messages does it take a photographer to book a photo session?
1-2
3-6
6-Let's just chit chat & never actually shoot anything...
What is your preferred casting info & how many photo sessions a week do you average?
I find it fascinating that people are expected to agree to a photo session when they have no info other than who they may be working with.
No time frame
No location
No length of the shoot
No pay rate (Even with TFP, I need to know how many PRINTS I'll get)
What is the solution? Solution: Strop trolling the swamp looking for other than swamp-minded models/photographers. What do you expect. There are some really great models to be found on MM and other sites, but they're the needles in the haystack. C'mon, you can't be that daft--- When you're looking for an attorney with a PhD in engineering for your patent preparation, etc., are you going to shop Chicago, Yale, NYU, Harvard and Stanford or Baton Rouge, Florida State, IU Indianapolis, etc..
This isn't rocket science. You don't shop for prime rib at McDonalds. Also you may need to upgrade the crowd you regularly associate with. If you associate with those who mostly are highly educated, then their friends and associates and sons and daughters interested who may model for you will be generally of the same ilk.... which is different from those who spend every waking moment with the cell phone glued to their face looking at silly posts on tiktok and instagram. Likewise shopping photographers.
If you want college-minded, educated, on-time, going-somewhere with their life, kind of models, then you have to shop that kind of demographic... If you want photographers that area detailed / business oriented, then you have to shop for that.
Wake up people.
Photographer
csybt
Posts: 30
Denver, Colorado, US
I don't keep count, but if it gets to about 5 messages or so without the model showing any interest in actually following through (ie asking about dates, times, content, expectations) than I ignore them. It works out pretty well too to weed the people who want to pretend to be models without actually going through with the modeling part.
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