Kevin Fair wrote:

You provide quotes.  Good for you.  But no synopsis.  Well, other than the typical petulant comment one could expect from a conservative.  (Maybe you should refrain from the your petulant comments about liberals in the future?)

If my sources are to old, you fail to provide any newer data to illustrate how my perception is wrong.  Nor do your quotes counter my concern for open carry and confrontations with the police, inside or outside of the home.  It would appear that you cannot support an argument that carrying a gun keeps you or anyone else safer, especially when the police are involved.

BTW, 33 cases?  Over how many years?  Compare that to the increase in homicides because of the proliferation of guns.  Most of the homicides are still perpetrated by someone the victim knows.

LightDreams wrote:
When on earth did Kevin Fair suddenly become a fan of statistical facts???

As this thread as already thoroughly covered, the stats related to guns in the U.S. make it crystal clear that life is so much more dangerous in the U.S. than in any other major western democracy.  And it's not even close.

Whether that's the stats on how you are far more likely to be killed by a gun, or how your children are far more likely to die by a gun shot when there's a gun in the house, to how you are far more likely to get shot when someone "loses it" (in an argument, etc) when they have easy access to a gun, how you are far more likely to die as a result of a violent attack (gun versus knives or fists, etc), how children are far more likely to get shot while in American schools, or how you are far more likely to get shot when someone mistakenly thinks you are a threat because you knock on the door of the wrong house (and "they are defending themselves"), etc, etc.

The "STATS" related to guns in the U.S. are the very LAST THING that Kevin has EVER wanted to hear about.

Kevin Fair wrote:
Ask a legitimate question and LeftDreams storms in again.

Instead of an answer, it's the same liberal skating around the answer bull shit.

Kevin.  Please learn the difference between the BIG questions at the VERY HEART of the matter, and what you just repeatedly ignore by just calling it "skating around the answer bull shit".

It's amazing how much further you'll get in life by sorting out the stuff that actually counts.   Although I certainly understand your repeated reluctance to deal with the core issues raised by this particular thread.

I really do get it.  It makes you very uncomfortable to have to consider the key aspects of this issue.  That's good, because it should.  Real change starts with "baby steps", but confronting uncomfortable and hard realities is an important starting point.  If you're up to it.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
You provide quotes.  Good for you.  But no synopsis.  Well, other than the typical petulant comment one could expect from a conservative.  (Maybe you should refrain from the your petulant comments about liberals in the future?)

If my sources are to old, you fail to provide any newer data to illustrate how my perception is wrong.  Nor do your quotes counter my concern for open carry and confrontations with the police, inside or outside of the home.  It would appear that you cannot support an argument that carrying a gun keeps you or anyone else safer, especially when the police are involved.

BTW, 33 cases?  Over how many years?  Compare that to the increase in homicides because of the proliferation of guns.  Most of the homicides are still perpetrated by someone the victim knows.

Hey professor, I just used your links. You posted them, but only used the parts of them to prove your point.

Do you need a synopsis to prove a point or fact?

LightDreams wrote:
Kevin.  Please learn the difference between the BIG questions at the VERY HEART of the matter, and what you just repeatedly ignore by just calling it "skating around the answer bull shit".

It's amazing how much further you'll get in life by sorting out the stuff that actually counts.   Although I certainly understand your repeated reluctance to deal with the core issues raised by this particular thread.

I really do get it.  It makes you very uncomfortable to have to consider the key aspects of this issue.  That's good, because it should.  Real change starts with "baby steps", but confronting uncomfortable and hard realities is an important starting point.  If you're up to it.

The thread is "It's Time To Make Gun Manufacturers Uncomfortable!"

The main thing with people like you and your buddy is you can't think for yourself. Your just sheep that believe what your told, or see on the news.

Under the current administration import and domestic production of guns is up 137 percent increase over 2011, and a 446 percent increase over 2001. Why is that? According to you the US is in a much better place now. Why are a record breaking number of guns being bought?

https://www.thetrace.org/2023/03/guns-a … er%202001.

The ATF hasn’t published import figures since 2020. But according to the U.S. International Trade Commission, which advises lawmakers on trade and tariffs, more than 9.1 million guns were imported in 2021 — up 34 percent over the previous year. By combining imports with domestic production and subtracting the number of guns exported, it indicates that 2021 saw a record 22.5 million guns hit the U.S. market. That is a 137 percent increase over 2011, and a whopping 446 percent increase over 2001.



https://www.libertariancountry.com/blog … gun-rights

Why are so many liberals against guns? Because they don't like conservatives? Because some Hollywood star convinced them guns were evil? Because they're following some academic liberal orthodoxy they never had the balls to question? Because it's 'the liberal' thing to do?

What ever happened to thinking for yourself?

If you're an anti-gun liberal reading this, please consider the following. Gun rights are imperative. Without the right to own guns, we are powerless against tyranny, violence, terror and oppression. Vulnerable people like women and minorities will suffer the most if they pass all the gun bans you've been fighting for.

Is that really what you want? A defenseless nation of victims? A nation of people who don't have the right to defend themselves and protect their loved ones? Think very hard about what you're fighting for when you put your name on the "Anti-Gun" list.



https://thebronxchronicle.com/2022/06/0 … hate-guns/

It is an argument from liberals that will go no further than it has always gone. The vast majority of Americans are not going to give up their second amendment rights and part of the reasons is simple; liberals will not uphold the current laws of our land. And as a result, their policies make America less safe and the proof of that is found within every major liberal city that has the strictest gun laws and yet the highest murder rates. Without going any further, the data already proves that the liberal are wrong on their views related to gun laws. Sadly, liberal do not care about the facts they care about control and power, and the first and second amendments are smack in the way of both the control and the power of the political liberal elites need to have to control our society. This is because what they are peddling most Americans do not want. So, to make it happen they must force socialism which is what liberals have always done everywhere it has gone and failed.

Liberals want to have everyday Americans to give up their personal protection, yet liberals won’t control the borders, instead they have turned the management of the border to the cartel. You know the cartel that kills over 100,000 Americans per year with its drugs and MS13 gangs working openly in every major city in the US killing at will, who they will. Liberals then moved to defund the police and in doing so have overwhelmed law enforcement agencies and at the same time liberal DA’s nationwide have decided to release criminals early and not prosecute them when their case comes up on the docket. Liberals are shocked that crime has gone up and cannot connect the obvious dots.

Notice that all races can have the mentally ill, but what is interesting in the US is that only 9% of conservatives commit these crimes and when they do the mainstream news loves it because it fits a narrative about people focused on God, Country, Bibles, and Guns the four things’ liberals hate most. If a liberal thinker who is mentally ill commits a mass act of human violence, then the media buries it, and waits for the next event they can exploit to fuel the great fake divide for money, power, fame, and control.

Why are mass killings up? What changed? Simple the liberals in the 1970’s decided that the mentally ill needed to have right until they hurt someone, what is worse liberals knew they would hurt someone. So, we utterly freed them until they did the god awful. The mother of the young man who killed in Sandy Hook begged the authorities for help, but none came. This young man in Texas that killed all these children had posted God awful things and claims. Funny how Facebook can pick up the slightest political opinion they do not like but cannot pick up the obvious dangers of mass killers or pedophiles. The irony of that alone is mind boggling. But then again Facebook is liberalism and so it is political and seeks its own control and power over society.

Everything liberals have touched they have broken and taking away my right to protect myself and my family and friends with the weapon of my choice is my right. And it is what a million US soldiers died to protect, the US Constitution. Blaming the NRA for gun violence is like blaming the DMV for drunk drivers who kill more than bullets do.


https://www.aei.org/articles/liberals-u … periority/

Many liberals hate it that some conservatives have a different set of values, morals and aesthetics — and so these liberals want to use the federal government to fix that.

This comes across in the proposed legislation, too. Why do Democratic politicians go after semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15, so-called “assault rifles”? It’s not because AR-15s are used in most killings — they aren’t. Rifles represent 3 percent of all gun deaths where the weapon is known, according to FBI data. The 1994 “assault weapons ban” did little or nothing to save lives.

Kevin Fair wrote:
Hey professor, I just used your links. You posted them, but only used the parts of them to prove your point.

Do you need a synopsis to prove a point or fact?

-
But you didn't prove your point.  You didn't make an argument.  Just slightly more of the same ol same ol.

Of course you followed up with Lightdreams by starting out with the same thing.  Under no circumstances did you need to start by degrading us as people who are sheep, don't think, and believe only the news.  But that is much easier than actually researching and debating. 

For instance, do you think we believe The United States cannot be a better place now simply because of one metric that we disagree with?  A metric that may have results that none of us have yet seen?

If crime is not a problem for the right, why does the right harp on it so much?  For some people the answer to crime is more guns and to some people the answer is a more just society.  At this point, I can simply repeat your comments right back to you, but I am not interested in bickering.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19992984

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19992984

Probably the best post in this thread.

Surely you couldn't agree with it. He seemed pro gun.

I'll never understand your way of thinking, and as much as you think you do, but you'll never understand mine.

I'm not a gun freak, I've never owned any tactical vests or camo clothing. I don't have a single gun related sticker on my truck, car, or bike. I'd never open carry a gun even if it was an option in my state.

I don't hunt anymore, but do belong to a local range, and enjoy shooting holes in paper. I'm not a prepper, living 2 miles from the coast, I do keep what most would consider hurricane supplies year round. When everyone is panicking to get water and stuff, all I have to do is fill up my 6 gas cans, which for the past 23 years always ends up getting used in my car or truck. Never needed my generator once...yet.

Do I seem like the bad guy?

LightDreams wrote:
It's funny listening to all of these things that Kevin thinks that the U.S. absolutely has to have in relation to guns.  And all of his reasons why that has to be.

Damn if I can figure out why, as a result, all of the stats and facts show that the U.S. is far worse off than all of those other major western countries that DON'T share his list.

Then what do I know.  I'm just a dumb sheep that is incapable of doing anything other than examining all of those, oh so annoying, damning statistics.  Which, sadly, aren't just numbers on a page but, instead, represent so many more dead Americans, in (per capita) comparisons to all of those other countries...

Something's badly broken.  And for some reason, I think that's rather important.  But, apparently, I am incapable of thinking for myself.

When have I said that the U.S. has to have in relation to guns? What reasons have I given? Please show where I have said that.

"DON'T share his list." Where did I post a list?

"I'm just a dumb sheep."  Yes I think that's correct.

How can things be broken when we have the best president since obama in office now?

"I am incapable of thinking for myself."  Reading your post kinda proves that. You high again?

LightDreams wrote:
Why is that people that are doing so badly on the facts, resort to all sorts of falsehoods?  But they ALSO tend to rely more on name calling tactics, mixing in all sorts of slurs and insults.  Presumably to make themselves feel better about how they're doing presenting their case.

This is just a small sample taken from JUST ONE Kevin Fair post...



"People like you"

"can't think for yourself"

"your just sheep that believe what your told, or see on the news"

"because some Hollywood star convinced them guns were evil?"

"following some academic liberal orthodoxy they never had the balls to question?"

"because it's 'the liberal' thing to do? What ever happened to thinking for yourself?"

"is that really what you want? A defenseless nation of victims?"



And so it goes...

Yes...so it goes.

Again you post a load of bullshit, and won't explain it.

If your trolling, you need to go to AFR.com, and the AK Files for some trolling lessons, because you suck at it.

Kevin Fair wrote:
you need to go to AFR.com, and the AK Files for some trolling lessons, because you suck at it.

Even more insults.  Great stuff, Kevin!

Hah!

LightDreams wrote:

Even more insults.  Great stuff, Kevin!

Hah!

And you still won't / can't answer any of the questions I asked you.

Truly sad.

It wasn't meant as an insult. Just giving you some helpful advice.

LightDreams wrote:
Naturally, I am still waiting for Kevin Fair to deal with the core fundamental question that he KEEPS refusing to deal with...

Why is every other major western country doing so much better, when it comes to all of the extra (unnecessary) dead Americans as a results of gun violence?  That's on a PER CAPITA comparison basis.  We're talking about all of these countries that do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Kevin Fair keeps promoting.  And have much safer citizens and countries.

This is the very core of the debate, the absolute critical question that really presents a fundamental problem to everything that Kevin Fair's repeatedly promotes.   And, for some reason, his  approaches fail miserably in comparison to all of those other countries.  Which is why it is CRITICAL to MAGA that they completely ignore science and facts / statistics, etc ("don't believe what you read"!).

I.E.  All those facts / statistics about all those unnecessary dead Americans (adults and children), that cause so many problems for the policies that they are repeatedly trying to promote.

Every time you get your dumbass backed into a corner, you use the same bullshit tactics.

Why don't you just answer the questions?

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
will return later

Between you having to set a placeholder to give you time to think up more BS to post, and LeftDreams posting things that make zero since, and then being incapable of explaining them.

This isn't worth my time.

You two have a good time in this thread.

I'm out.

rxz wrote:
Not just the manufacturers to be concerned about.  How about law enforcement entities around the country?

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/new-i … n-the-list

This TV investigation crew learned of over 50,000 guns recovered from crimes were once owned by law enforcement officers. 
Now another investigation has identified the U.S. companies and individuals who sold 78,00 firearms to the Mexican cartels over the past years.  In looking at the list, lots of red state residents.  Makes sense red state residents buy weapons with pending Democratic governments.  Lots of loss revenue if they can't buy guns.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ha … r-BB1mPMSp 

In a recent police incident in Chicago, 2 unmarked police vehicles with plain clothed officers stopped a car with a black driver due to a broken tail light.  Seeing a gun and the driver wasn't cooperating, they fired 96 rounds in less than a minute.  The driver died at he scene.

rxz wrote:
Not just the manufacturers to be concerned about.  How about law enforcement entities around the country?
. . .
In a recent police incident in Chicago, 2 unmarked police vehicles with plain clothed officers stopped a car with a black driver due to a broken tail light.  Seeing a gun and the driver wasn't cooperating, they fired 96 rounds in less than a minute.  The driver died at he scene.

Can anyone cite even one case in which the same sort of thing has happened to a WHITE man???