GSmithPhoto wrote:
I'd suggest you re-arrange your pricing structure (at least for him) and create an hourly rate which allows for you to be fairly compensated for your time in fixing the images.  Don't alienate the client, simply make it so he either has to improve the quality of the images he sends, or pay for the time to fix the images.

This. 

In fact, I think it would do well for any client  , myself included.

SaladinoLavadino wrote:
Hi there,

Background story: I use to be a newB retoucher in the industry and worked with some of my clients charging them quite a low price for retouching (average: 10USD/image). The client would sometimes send really bad image for retouching (way under or over-expose with heavy lens flare) which I need to remove manually and takes me a lot of time, I tried to charge more but he seemingly doesn't understand why it takes so much time and money to retouch each image. So he would come back to me from time to time with some really crappy images.

Now I have build a client base which appreciate my work more and I just don't want to retouch his images anymore. Is there a way I that I can tell him I no longer want to work with him politely and professionally? I know this might be a weird problem but I don't want to burn the bridge aggressively.

Any help would be great!!!! Thanks in advance

I suggest you suck it up and be true to the arrangement you made, He gave you work when you were struggling... "dance with the one what brung ya"

GSmithPhoto wrote:
I'd suggest you re-arrange your pricing structure (at least for him) and create an hourly rate which allows for you to be fairly compensated for your time in fixing the images.  Don't alienate the client, simply make it so he either has to improve the quality of the images he sends, or pay for the time to fix the images.

This is the best advice you've been given. Keep the client if they are willing to pay a fair price. If they find somebody else at bargain rates then they are no longer your problem.

Model MoRina wrote:
When I have a client who is either particularly difficult to deal with or I feel what they are requesting would be very time consuming, I ask myself first if there is a price I WOULD be willing to do the work for. Sometimes the answer is no, I don't want to work with them at any price. Sometimes the answer is that I would, but not at my regular rate. So first decide do you want the work at all. It is ok to say no, just reply back with "I'm sorry I can no longer perform this work for you."

If you want the work, but not at your regular price then say something like "I appreciate you asking me to do ___, and I am happy to do it, at ___ rate. This work requires extra time and skill outside of normal production. Let me know if that works for you!"

One of the biggest benefits of working for yourself is the ability to say "no." If I am going to wake up and dread what I do everyday I would just go back and get a corporate job with health insurance. Lol

Great post, good point well made. I hadn't thought about it since it's been a long time but yes, there are some work options that I simply take a pass on, the complexities are not worth the rewards (if there even are any!).

G Wilson wrote:
I suggest you suck it up and be true to the arrangement you made, He gave you work when you were struggling... "dance with the one what brung ya"

By this logic, a business could never raise its prices.

G Wilson wrote:
I suggest you suck it up and be true to the arrangement you made, He gave you work when you were struggling... "dance with the one what brung ya"

Honestly, the OP isn't asking about contract obligations, and my advice is based on the conclusion that he doesn't have a contract for a certain pricing structure for a given time period.  At this point, the sub-standard images are costing him extra time, keeping him from expanding his business with clients who are willing to value his efforts, costing him revenue in addition to the work to produce a usable image.

Just my .01487 (value due to inflation)

GSmithPhoto wrote:

Honestly, the OP isn't asking about contract obligations, and my advice is based on the conclusion that he doesn't have a contract for a certain pricing structure for a given time period.  At this point, the sub-standard images are costing him extra time, keeping him from expanding his business with clients who are willing to value his efforts, costing him revenue in addition to the work to produce a usable image.

Just my .01487 (value due to inflation)

I dig what you're saying G, you too Mark... both good points, however I wasn't talking about a contractual obligation, maybe more of a moral obligation, if you could even call it that.
You know, what folks used to do before everyone was convinced that chasing the dollar was the imperative, and life was about getting more... it's like, yesterday your life sucked and you didn't have a pot to piss in, you solicited work from me so that you could eat, and I fed you, I fed you until you one day you were strong enough to make it on your own. And instead of appreciation for what you had consumed of mine, you simply wish for me to go away.
It's something about character, and for those that this dilemma never even occurs to, well, it's something about character...

G Wilson wrote:

I dig what you're saying G, you too Mark... both good points, however I wasn't talking about a contractual obligation, maybe more of a moral obligation, if you could even call it that.
You know, what folks used to do before everyone was convinced that chasing the dollar was the imperative, and life was about getting more... it's like, yesterday your life sucked and you didn't have a pot to piss in, you solicited work from me so that you could eat, and I fed you, I fed you until you one day you were strong enough to make it on your own. And instead of appreciation for what you had consumed of mine, you simply wish for me to go away.
It's something about character, and for those that this dilemma never even occurs to, well, it's something about character...

Yes, character is important. If a client had character they could improve the quality of the images they are providing. If they are still over and under exposing and can't afford a lens hood to prevent flare then they can be somebody else's nightmare. Somebody who consistently brings crap work and pays very little is not a customer, they are a leech and a thorn in the side. There is nothing wrong or dishonorable about sending them on their way. Keeping them as clients is a sign of weak character in my book.

SaladinoLavadino wrote:
Hi there,

Background story: I use to be a newB retoucher in the industry and worked with some of my clients charging them quite a low price for retouching (average: 10USD/image). The client would sometimes send really bad image for retouching (way under or over-expose with heavy lens flare) which I need to remove manually and takes me a lot of time, I tried to charge more but he seemingly doesn't understand why it takes so much time and money to retouch each image. So he would come back to me from time to time with some really crappy images.

Now I have build a client base which appreciate my work more and I just don't want to retouch his images anymore. Is there a way I that I can tell him I no longer want to work with him politely and professionally? I know this might be a weird problem but I don't want to burn the bridge aggressively.

Any help would be great!!!! Thanks in advance

SaladinoLavadino wrote:
Thank you so very much for everyone's advice, really appreciate it. Will send an update pricing structure and see what happens.

A bit more background if that sparks any discussion: Basically he has been sticking with me for a few years (5+ I think), and initially I think my charge is reasonable since I'm new and still building up. Now I have enough returning clients and to be very honest with myself, those clients have work with higher creative potentials (like instead of fixing exposure and stuff, more like colour grading and styling the image in post). They are also stable clients and pay me fairly well (at least I feel so). But their work takes a lot of my time since they do like hundred changes with styling, so I don't really want to spend my night removing lens flare and trying to recover details anymore. That's why my initial thought is that I no longer want to work with him. But definitely will send him an updated pricing structure and see where it leads to, thanks a lot again everyone!

To me, you are sounding less and less as an ethical human being, and more and more like a cheating hypergamous female, he supported you for five plus years and now you want to get rid of him because you "THINK" you're too good for him. I'm sure you'll get plenty of support from this group, but I think there's something a slimey about it.

G Wilson wrote:

To me, you are sounding less and less as an ethical human being, and more and more like a cheating hypergamous female, he supported you for five plus years and now you want to get rid of him because you "THINK" you're too good for him. I'm sure you'll get plenty of support from this group, but I think there's something a slimey about it.

Thanks for your input mate, and yes I'm 100 percent a cheater. But I'll get more sleep.

G Wilson wrote:
To me, you are sounding less and less as an ethical human being, and more and more like a cheating hypergamous female, he supported you for five plus years and now you want to get rid of him because you "THINK" you're too good for him. I'm sure you'll get plenty of support from this group, but I think there's something a slimey about it.

No, this 'client' did not support the OP for five years, he paid for a service. He was apparently happy enough with the finished products he received for his money to keep sending work over. That doesn't mean his rates are fixed in stone.

All businesses raise their prices from time to time to reflect  what it costs them to do business and what they need to make a living.

The OP never even hints that 'they are too good for him', they are trying to run a business.

G Wilson wrote:
To me, you are sounding less and less as an ethical human being, and more and more like a cheating hypergamous female, he supported you for five plus years and now you want to get rid of him because you "THINK" you're too good for him. I'm sure you'll get plenty of support from this group, but I think there's something a slimey about it.

Wow. Comparing him to woman as a slur. Classy.

I've supported plenty of restaurants and small businesses. I never thought to compare them to cheating women when they raised their prices.

Model MoRina wrote:

Wow. Comparing him to woman as a slur. Classy.

I've supported plenty of restaurants and small businesses. I never thought to compare them to cheating women when they raised their prices.

G Wilson wrote:
It's something about character, and for those that this dilemma never even occurs to, well, it's something about character...

We get it, and we see your "character". So classy... not.

G Wilson wrote:
hypergamous

Hey, you know a big word. I'm impressed!

G Wilson wrote:
slimey

Come on, you can do better than this.

G Wilson wrote:
To me, you are sounding less and less as an ethical human being, and more and more like a cheating hypergamous female, he supported you for five plus years and now you want to get rid of him because you "THINK" you're too good for him. I'm sure you'll get plenty of support from this group, but I think there's something a slimey about it.

I think you are being a bit harsh. I agree that there is a good reason to continue with the client after many years. But I think the OP has the chance to offer the client some help in return. Telling him what he has consistently done wrong and how he can correct it would be a good start. The photographer doesn't understand something and the OP does - so why not help him out with some advice and perhaps telling him of a new price structure. It doesn't have to be ugly. It can be a win-win. To me that is always the best ethical choice if available, which it usually is!

ChatGPT 4 wrote:
It's not a weird problem at all; many professionals face this situation at some point in their careers. It's a testament to your growth and the development of your business. Here's a step-by-step approach to handle this situation diplomatically:

Preparation: Before reaching out to the client, ensure that all current obligations are completed. If you're in the middle of a project for him, finish it to the best of your ability.

Set Up a Meeting: It's always best to have these conversations either face-to-face or over the phone rather than through email. This helps in conveying tone and allows for a more genuine interaction. If this isn't possible, an email will suffice.

Be Honest, But Tactful: Start the conversation by acknowledging and appreciating the past collaboration. Let them know how much you've valued their business.

Example: "I've genuinely appreciated the opportunity to work with you over the years. Our projects have been an important part of my journey as a retoucher."
State Your Reasoning: Explain that your business is evolving. You can mention how your pricing structure and project focus has shifted due to increased demand and changes in your business model.

Example: "Over time, my business has grown and evolved. My focus and client base have shifted, and I've had to reevaluate my pricing and the types of projects I take on."
Provide Alternatives: If you know of any other retouchers who might be a good fit for their needs and budget, suggest them. This shows you're still looking out for their interests, even if you can't personally provide the service.

Example: "While I might not be the right fit for your needs moving forward, I'd be happy to recommend some talented colleagues who might be more aligned with what you're looking for."
Leave on a Positive Note: Reiterate your appreciation for their business and wish them all the best. This keeps the door open for potential collaboration in the future or for other types of interactions.

Example: "Thank you again for the trust you've placed in me. I wish you all the best with your future projects and endeavors."
Follow Up: If the conversation happens over the phone or in person, consider sending a follow-up email to summarize what was discussed and to reiterate your appreciation.

Remember, it's okay to outgrow client relationships. As long as you handle the situation with grace and professionalism, you're doing your part to end things on a positive note.

and another AI, Midjourney v5, would be pretty great to retouch that kind of image. You can use his images as test cases. Not everybody gets paid to experiment with AI and future proofing themselves, potentially increasing their margins in the process.

Roaring 20s wrote:
and another AI, Midjourney v5, would be pretty great to retouch that kind of image. You can use his images as test cases. Not everybody gets paid to experiment with AI and future proofing themselves, potentially increasing their margins in the process.

Thanks, this is very helpful. I should've thought of asking chatGPT before posting haha. Appreciate it!!

SaladinoLavadino wrote:
Thanks, this is very helpful. I should've thought of asking chatGPT before posting haha. Appreciate it!!

people are universally finding ChatGPT (as of time of writing) to be more empathic on every topic, especially in professional areas where specialists have a lot of pride and ego to become a specialist and score lower on emotional intelligence in the process

so with that AI you get something analogous to experience, intelligence and empathy. most individuals humans don't possess those 3 simultaneously, and crowds of humans definitely don't.

G Wilson wrote:
maybe more of a moral obligation, if you could even call it that.
You know, what folks used to do before everyone was convinced that chasing the dollar was the imperative, and life was about getting more...

The MORAL thing to do is not take advantage of someone's kindness and try and screw them out of money they have earned. This has nothing to do with "chasing the dollar" and everything to do with exchanging skilled hours for financial compensation.

I don't know about you, but I do this FOR A LIVING. While I enjoy what I do greatly, at the end of the day I do this to pay my mortgage, keep food on the table, and enjoy a moderately nice lifestyle. I don't do this out of charity, although I do that from time to time too. My time has value, plain and simple. If you don't value your time, that's on you, but for some of us, we do value that time and we trade that time for compensation, usually financial compensation.

If this client is taking advantage, then it's on the OP to either change his model (what I would have done) or fire the client (also an option) and the OP should have ---ZERO--- guilt about this.

To the OP, there is definitely some good advice already given in this thread. Here are three options that I would present to you:

1) Charge by the hour, not by the photo. Explain to your client that you've changed your business practices.
2) Charge by complexity. When I take on these kinds of projects I use a multi-tier system. For example:

Tier 1: Basic RAW processing (color correction, cropping, exposure compensation, geometry correction, etc.)
Tier 2: Basic Retouching: RAW Processing + skin softening, minor blemish removal.
Tier 3: Tier 2+ More advanced retouching to include (Object removal/replacement, facial replacements, body modifications, background replacements, lens flare removal, etc.

You get the idea. Each tier though would have a different price to it. So if your client sends over 50 photos to edit, you send them back a price sheet stating that you have 40 photos at Tier 1, 8 at Tier 2, and 2 at Tier 3.

There you have it.

G Wilson wrote:
He gave you work when you were struggling.

OTOH You gave him help when his photography needed it.