CEDRIC H wrote:
So is the fashion industry racist or are Blacks simply not in season?

I doubt it's racism, but I will be checking out that show tonight!

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I'll make sure I watch.  One thing we should consider is that Blacks
(I'm African American also) only make-up about 14% of the US population.
Although this issue seems to be a world wide issue but I will focus on the
US.  If 14% is correct.  Then think about how many Black women are tall
enough, thin enough, young enough and in or near a major market and
interested in becoming a fashion model.

That number compared to White models is no doubt very small.  I'm not
saying there isn't a problem but all sides of a issue must be explored.
I hope that BET does just that.

I just wanted to agree...100%

Special Ed wrote:

I just wanted to agree...100%

I agree... this is  still kind of a tough topic. There are many different factors you have to take into consideration. It's so easy to throw out the race card but I think there is quite more than that. What I dont really understand is how it has been said African American models arent marketable...but thats another story.

Tiara L wrote:

I agree... this is  still kind of a tough topic. There are many different factors you have to take into consideration. It's so easy to throw out the race card but I think there is quite more than that. What I dont really understand is how it has been said African American models arent marketable...but thats another story.

It should'nt be a tough topic... It's simple actually, if the black population is only 14% then by the numbers you should have 14% black models in your fashion/runway show/campaign. Now if you have a clothing line that's marketed towards the black community, then having more black models would make sense. This would also be true of clothing lines that are marketed towards the white community. If you put more of either skin colored models in your show, then you are not appealing to your demographic.

How is it more difficult than that????

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I'll make sure I watch.  One thing we should consider is that Blacks
(I'm African American also) only make-up about 14% of the US population.
Although this issue seems to be a world wide issue but I will focus on the
US.  If 14% is correct.  Then think about how many Black women are tall
enough, thin enough, young enough and in or near a major market and
interested in becoming a fashion model.

That number compared to White models is no doubt very small.  I'm not
saying there isn't a problem but all sides of a issue must be explored.
I hope that BET does just that.

I don't think that availability of qualified black models is really an issue, Tony.  There are far more qualified applicants (Black and White both) than there are models accepted.  If designers wanted to use black models, they certainly could.

I'll try to watch the show tonight also, but I am reasonably sure that the real issues will not be discussed, or that if they are, they will be overwhelmed by rhetoric which appeals to emotion.  I have yet to see an honest discussion of these things in the public media.

Greg Cobb Photography wrote:
Someone watches too much BET.

I saw an ad on there today while working on a computer for a customer.  It's obvious that the whine-o-thon is racially focused.  I'm sure everyone will enjoy the show that puts down modelling and the industry.

???

Moxie Haze wrote:
so. Is this about African AMERICAN models only?

Nah...black models in general. From all over...

It's on commercial right now

TXPhotog wrote:
OK, I saw the show.  As predicted, it was very disappointing.

Two of the people on it had some credibility, I thought, and said something responsible related to the discussion:  Tracy Reese and the new faces director for Elite.  Everybody else was busy complaining, or patting themselves on the back, but nobody was really getting at the issues.  The real, underlying issues were not discussed at all.

And they spelled my last name wrong.  Unforgivable.

There really is a conversation to be had about this, that needs to be had.  But this wasn't it.

Can you give some insight? I only caught bits and pieces. You can message me if you don't want to start trouble

TXPhotog wrote:
OK, I saw the show.  As predicted, it was very disappointing.

Two of the people on it had some credibility, I thought, and said something responsible related to the discussion:  Tracy Reese and the new faces director for Elite.  Everybody else was busy complaining, or patting themselves on the back, but nobody was really getting at the issues.  The real, underlying issues were not discussed at all.

And they spelled my last name wrong.  Unforgivable.

There really is a conversation to be had about this, that needs to be had.  But this wasn't it.

It was on the BET.  Aside from spelling your name correctly, you should have expected everything you saw.  Worthless ass channel.

MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:
It was on the BET.  Aside from spelling your name correctly, you should have expected everything you saw.  Worthless ass channel.

Well, truth be known, I don't watch BET all that much.  I'm aware of the reputation, and this is consistent with it.  Certainly not a good start at having the serious conversation that we need to have.

They could have had a show with a lot more substance if they had just interviewed you, me and Tony Lawrence.  And, with due respect to us, an even better one if they had tried very hard to get credible industry leaders and thinkers to comment.  But they blew it.

brancifort wrote:
can people grow some thick skin and get on with their own life instead of other peoples lives.
i wish i had the time to figure out why top fashion designers are not hiring me to shoot their new campaigns. i should be hired because i think im good enough and i want to shoot.
isn't that enough, oh im sorry, but the choice isnt really mine to make for them. its theirs to make because THEY are the client and THEY get to choose who they hire to shoot for them.
it kinda makes sense.
but im still gonna call jesse and al to get picket lines and media attention.
im putting all of you designers on notice.
calvin, tommy, coco, yves, tom, ralph, you dont know it but you are going to hire me. because i want you to.

I don't think your comments are quite fair.  While I don't think that the industry
is racist I do think its fair to ask the questions.  Black folks buy designers
clothes.  They may feel they want to be represented.  Nobody is calling on
Jesse or Al and your comments hint at a narrow minded view. 

Designers do have the right to hire who they want.  So do companies
and years ago most would not hire Blacks all under the guise of Blacks
not being qualified.  If we had not spoken up.  If honest and in many
cases fair minded White Americans had not said no  then maybe
Jim Crow would still be the law of the land.

Some Black people question why fewer Blacks are being used in fashion
ads and runway work.  They wonder why after being let in the door so
to speak that Black women and men find that door now closed.  They
question is it about race.  To ignore them is to invite more questions
and furthers the ideal that it is about race.

Let me be clear there is no Black entitlement program for Black aspiring
fashion models.  Everybody goes into the same market and sometimes
that market may not want your look at that moment.  It may not seem
fair and it may not be or it may be the current mood of the industry.

However lets not dismiss those voices with a wave of our hands or
jokes about civil rights marches by Rev. Jackson or Rev. Sharpton.  To
some its a serious subject and one even if we don't agree we should
at least give ear too.

Round 2 wrote:
People on this site are so full of shit,

With their ignore the industry and listen to me because I'm a know it all, attitudes.

I just thought I'd remind you that you are on this site as well... Which would then make you full of shit as well.

Miss Mahogani wrote:
i do believe theres a lot less black girls on runway, and i feel its sad. but i do agree that our body shapes are different from your general runway euro girl or even white girls. i mean i am runway size. [0-4] but the way that i am built most clients would say that i dont fit, because i have bigger hips. so i do agree that black girls arent seen on the runway as much as we are in videos. its hard being a model as it is, but its even harder being a black female model.

So then, tell us... How many black girls do you think should be seen on average per runway show then???

Special Ed wrote:

So then, tell us... How many black girls do you think should be seen on average per runway show then???

i think they should have more than just one. its really sad that there arent more. i mean out of approximately 20-25 girls, there is only one black girl and 24 white girls, thats really sad. i think there should at least be half. its like the lady said on the show on bet were the ones supporting a lot of the brands that are at fashion week, and different shows, but they dont support us. when i say us, i mean the brands like versace, dolce & gabanna, louis vuitton. i mean just because im a black girl, doesnt mean that i want to do videos, or apple bottom, or baby phat shows forever! [eventhough I MYSELF would love to start there, and move up!] i would love to do versace, and the other top brands.

Miss Mahogani wrote:

i think they should have more than just one. its really sad that there arent more. i mean out of approximately 20-25 girls, there is only one black girl and 24 white girls, thats really sad. i think there should at least be half. its like the lady said on the show on bet were the ones supporting a lot of the brands that are at fashion week, and different shows, but they dont support us. when i say us, i mean the brands like versace, dolce & gabanna, louis vuitton. i mean just because im a black girl, doesnt mean that i want to do videos, or apple bottom, or baby phat shows forever! [eventhough I MYSELF would love to start there, and move up!] i would love to do versace, and the other top brands.

Half... Seriously??? How is that possibly fair when the black community only makes up approximatly 14% of the population? This would also mean that only 14% of the brands you mentioned are supported by the black community. Yet you want at least half of the models to be black???

BarryH wrote:
My (non-white) wife brought this up recently while we were watching clips from various fashion shows. Despite the fact that these were international designers, the models were overwhelmingly (as in 90%+) white. Why so few black & Asian faces these days? Though I don't have statistics, I'm a relatively old guy and it seems to me that there was more diversity in this industry in twenty years ago.

Well, it's a bit rare to have Asian girls that are 5'10 and above. This is unfortunate, I think Asian chicks are incredibly beautiful and would be a welcome addition to the runway. Since this won't really happen, white girls are used as they are more popular in the Asian market right now. 

As for the percentage you spoke of, 90% white isn't that far off the actual population numbers. 86% would be about correct.

As we all know the industry changes constantly and someday in the future, there'll be white folks complaining theres to many black models on the runway.

BarryH wrote:
I don't think debating the percentages of ethnic populations of the US is so relevant, as this is a global industry.

The industry may be, but the fashion shows aren't.

At a typical New York fashion show how many fashion buyers were in the audience from, say, Namibia?  Nigeria?  Zambia?  Cameroon?

Need I go on?

One of the things people having these conversations never consider is this:  who is the audience for the show?  Who is sitting in the front row?  What do they care about?

Special Ed wrote:
So then, tell us... How many black girls do you think should be seen on average per runway show then???

Miss Mahogani wrote:
i think they should have more than just one. its really sad that there arent more. i mean out of approximately 20-25 girls, there is only one black girl and 24 white girls, thats really sad. i think there should at least be half.

From time to time I ask the same question, always to try to get people to focus on what reasonable criteria for judgment ought to be.  It isn't helpful to complain about "not enough" if we aren't able to say what "enough" is.

At least a respondent came back with an answer, which often is not the case.   As people here might guess, I don't think "half" is a particularly good answer as a benchmark for "enough that we don't need to complain about it anymore", but at least it is a starting point for discussion.

For her we know what "enough" means.  Now we could discuss why "half" is the right answer, and not "three quarters" or "one sixth" and, while admitting that precision isn't important, perhaps have a foundation for understanding the complaint and dealing with it.  It's a step forward.

Anyone else want to propose an answer, and a rationale for it?

Miss Mahogani wrote:

i think they should have more than just one. its really sad that there arent more. i mean out of approximately 20-25 girls, there is only one black girl and 24 white girls, thats really sad. i think there should at least be half. its like the lady said on the show on bet were the ones supporting a lot of the brands that are at fashion week, and different shows, but they dont support us. when i say us, i mean the brands like versace, dolce & gabanna, louis vuitton. i mean just because im a black girl, doesnt mean that i want to do videos, or apple bottom, or baby phat shows forever! [eventhough I MYSELF would love to start there, and move up!] i would love to do versace, and the other top brands.

1. Half?  Wow.  Blacks don't make up half of the population, why should they make up half of a runway show?  What about hispanics?  Asians?  Middle Easterners?
2. One does not start in music videos and work their way up to Versace.  If you are fit for videos, the chances are high you are not fit for Versace.