Photographer
mathieu drut
Posts: 404
Santa Clara, California, US
CLOKWRK wrote:
This! A fine arts degree! Photoshop is another set of tools. Photoshop doesn't make the decisions about color, composition, value...or what LOOKS right. You do. It is all about deciding what looks right. Most people can see if something doesn't "look" right or if something is off, but they can't tell you what is wrong, or how to make it look right. I would hire a great artist (with zero PS experience) who can draw well and understands light, color etc. hands down over someone who is well versed in Photoshop. They will learn Photoshop a lot sooner than someone will learn to be a great artist. At the same time, you can't really be "well versed" in photoshop if you don't understand light or colors. And hiring someone with zero PS experience to do, say, beauty retouch doesn't strike me as a brilliant idea (even if the person is a great artist).... Why not hire the right person for the job? 
Artist/Painter
CLOKWRK
Posts: 91
Grosse Pointe, Michigan, US
mathieu drut wrote:
At the same time, you can't really be "well versed" in photoshop if you don't understand light or colors. And hiring someone with zero PS experience to do, say, beauty retouch doesn't strike me as a brilliant idea (even if the person is a great artist).... Why not hire the right person for the job? I beg to differ on the "well-versed" part. There are a lot of people very proficient with Photoshop's tools and what they do, but they may not necessarily know what to do to make an image look nice/pretty/pop/stand out etc.
I suppose your right about about the "zero experience" though... In an ideal world, I would hire a brilliant artist who is well-versed in PS! Still, IF I had to choose, and there was time to train, a good artist will eventually blow past a well-versed PS "operator." In studios that I've worked at, apprentices with strong art backgrounds usually excelled and typically became much better retouchers than many experienced retouchers who didn't consider themselves "artists." So, IMHO I still think a fine art education is going to fare well in the long run if the OP wants to retouch.
Photographer
Sentimental-SINtimental
Posts: 1314
Longview, Washington, US
I think as a retoucher that a good cosmetology class would be benefitial on all aspects. And yes to answer the original questions there aren't any actual schools that offer advance retouch work. I know that when I lived in Minnesota the Art Institute tried to talk my son into doing their special effects course... while it seemed to be something good to learn for his art skills, when I asked the reqruiter about placement he said that it was best to be on the coast or knew someone in the business already. But part of the course was digital manipulations and retouching... might be worth looking at
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
R Y A N B A T E R wrote:
Is there a course on where you can learn HIGH end retouching? I'm considering to do Graphic Design in Advertising in University next year In London, but was wondering If I could do a joint on course on Advanced level Retouching/Photoshop.
Thanks for the information.
,
Ryan
/
Advanced knowledge in Photoshop.
P.S. please don't joke, I'm being serious.
And do not Recommend any Dvd's... -_- If you've applied to the University of Arts (former London Institute) or LCP which was part of it when I studied there you won't go wrong as it produced a lot of good art dir, photographers, graphic designers and media people.
Seen as one of Europe's best.
Jessica-Dee...sorry but your sooo wrong.
Retoucher
Tommy Charles
Posts: 56
Greensboro, North Carolina, US
No, there aren't. So much of retouching is intuition and natural inclination/talent anyway.
Since you specifically requested that we not mention DVD courses, I won't name any. But, there are 1 or 2 really good ones for "high-end" work.
Photographer
GC1
Posts: 220
Paris, Île-de-France, France
Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
No. But I know lots of courses in Low End retouching. And I can sell you a degree to frame, really cheap. :-)))
Retoucher
nobody frm nowhere
Posts: 25
Nottingham, Maryland, US
Ashish Arora wrote:
They won't teach you how to retouch, but they will teach you Adobe Suite inside out, once you know the techniques and algorithms, apply them to retouching to advance it to a new level.
That's what my teacher told me the first day at my graphics design school.
It does make a difference.
Go ahead and join a school for it.
· Advertising · Graphic design · Public relations is a good career option for an aspiring photographer/retoucher.
PS- 1. I am not sure about London, but there are some really good ones in NY.
2. Its like any retouching DVD- teaches you what to do/how to, you don't learn by looking at it. You learn by working your ass off on images.
Same with the degree- builds a very good base. You can now grow a firm tower of career on it.
3. Contact Carrie
http://carrienyc.com/contact/
She should have an answer for London.  well said.
Digital Artist
Nathanfx
Posts: 251
Chelsea, New York, US
Nobody should try and "invest" in the Entertainment industry already for Education through accredited institutions any more.
The schools are already flooding Hollywood with kids who have to turn to prostitution and other means of illegal trade to pay off their loans because there arnt enough jobs out there anymore. Which leads to most of you working for free and the standard of living for commercial artists out there to plummet.
Photographer
Feverstockphoto
Posts: 623
Belfast, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Here's a breakdown per year of one course in London that i was looking at. Maintenance Loan - Paid directly to you £4893 Tuition Fee Loan - Paid directly to your college/university £9000 Higher Education Maintenance Grant - Paid directly to you £3475 Times that by 3 years excluding the grant = £41679 + % interest to pay back. I think you start paying back when earning £21000 a year upwards @ 9% of surplus. So if earning £25000 it's 9% of £4000 you pay back - £360 a year i think. But sure why worry about the small details, you only live once! .
Retoucher
Greg Curran
Posts: 231
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
No. But I know lots of courses in Low End retouching. And I can sell you a degree to frame, really cheap. +1
Retoucher
CarrieNYC
Posts: 10
New York, New York, US
hey!
IM doing an advanced retouching workshop THIS WEEKEND at the School of Visual Arts! July 20/21 2013.
Everything is provided; computer, Wacom Tablet, pen and ME, Carrie Beene.
It's not too late to sign up.
Cheers
(Bring a sweater, the AC really WORKS in our studio)
Photographer
Digitized Life
Posts: 20
Antioch, Tennessee, US
Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
No. But I know lots of courses in Low End retouching. And I can sell you a degree to frame, really cheap. LOL....
THAT WAS FUNNY!!
Photographer
Jakov Markovic
Posts: 1128
Belgrade, Central Serbia, Serbia
It's called style and good taste, and no academy teaches that.
What helps with the technical aspect might be involved with studying fine arts.
Photographer
Jakov Markovic
Posts: 1128
Belgrade, Central Serbia, Serbia
CarrieNYC wrote:
hey!
IM doing an advanced retouching workshop THIS WEEKEND at the School of Visual Arts! July 20/21 2013.
Everything is provided; computer, Wacom Tablet, pen and ME, Carrie Beene.
It's not too late to sign up.
Cheers
(Bring a sweater, the AC really WORKS in our studio) You should take this course, Carrie is one of the GREATS, but it is still up to you to build your taste.
Photographer
Robert Randall
Posts: 13890
Chicago, Illinois, US
This post is meant to be informative to the OP. An ad agency I work with has an opening for a retoucher in their LA office. I thought it might be helpful for you to see what they require of the candidates that might be interested in their job offering. ![https://www.robert-randall.com/MM/Retoucher.jpg]() What you should also note about this job opening is that it will be filled by a person that is more skilled than anyone I've seen to date on MM. You should also note that the agency will still hire outside retouch firms when the particulars of a given job are beyond the ability of the person they hire. In a closed loop system such as MM, it's all too easy for people to become affected by what they perceive as the pinnacle of an industry they really know nothing about. Giuseppe, by proxy, has already proven that a monkey can be taught how to press a button. So, you can stay in here and learn how to turn model's faces into frozen sorbet, or you might try interning or job shadowing at an ad agency, or better yet... http://www.saddingtonbaynes.com/work Good luck!
Photographer
TRAE TRIPLETT
Posts: 2
Brooklyn, New York, US
There are too many talented High-end Retouchers on this site for everyone to act dumb, where did you learn it, how sad, this is how the industry replies to aspiring photogtaphers, "biy my video" how Sad.
Retoucher
Tincture
Posts: 126
New York, New York, US
The best "school" you could hope for is to start working at a retouching studio and learn from the other retouchers there. There is no substitute for learning when there are stakes involved.
For what it's worth, all of the retouchers that I know have a degree in either photography or illustration. I'm not saying it's an absolute necessity, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Retoucher
Adriano De Sena
Posts: 305
London, England, United Kingdom
Cheftrae wrote:
There are too many talented High-end Retouchers on this site for everyone to act dumb, where did you learn it, how sad, this is how the industry replies to aspiring photogtaphers, "biy my video" how Sad. I can tell you there are too many photographers on this field who expect professional work for 2 or maximum 5 bucks per image. But the lowest price I saw was 0,25$.
This is how the industry replies? Do it for 2 bucks? "how sad".
Maybe you missed something. you can find lot of answers, guide, link, advice from real pros like models/photographers/retouchers/make up artists. that's how this community replies!
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
RINALDI wrote:
Suppose one course will cost you 500 bucks and it will get you between 2 and 5 college credits (I dunno). I rather buy the DVD's with Gry, Vitaly, Natalia and Kruno for that money. It won't teach you Adobe Suite inside-out like a digital imaging program, but it does teach you how to fully apply PS to exactly what you want, retouching. Well, college can provide a great opportunity to network with others in different fields which can then lead to networking and pulling/giving favors in the working world. That alone could be worth the price of admission, not to mention the fraternity of having a degree from a well known school.
From there I would, in school, learn what the ad industry would demand as far as skills and then learn those as well as things in the near future so you could be on the cutting edge of where things are going - in the industry - which may be a bit different than what we are exposed to here or what we talk about here as MM is generally about people and skin and not a lot of ad work.
Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Tincture wrote:
The best "school" you could hope for is to start working at a retouching studio and learn from the other retouchers there. There is no substitute for learning when there are stakes involved.
For what it's worth, all of the retouchers that I know have a degree in either photography or illustration. I'm not saying it's an absolute necessity, but it certainly doesn't hurt. Well and I bet someone starting in the industry (although at lower levels unless they were really really talented) would learn a lot of stuff in the first few years. The degree, although complained about here sometimes, helps a person get that first job or to (at a company or ad agency) where as some DVD's or 1 on 1's, unless they were with someone famous, may not be enough to get a person that first job.
I mean, if I was hiring someone and I had a choice between a person with great work and no schooling vs a person with great work and a degree, I would go with the degree.
Christian Bela wrote:
I can tell you there are too many photographers on this field who expect professional work for 2 or maximum 5 bucks per image. But the lowest price I saw was 0,25$.
This is how the industry replies? Do it for 2 bucks? "how sad".
Maybe you missed something. you can find lot of answers, guide, link, advice from real pros like models/photographers/retouchers/make up artists. that's how this community replies! So, crank out 10 images in an hour and now all of a sudden you made $50. Work for an ad agency or company in the industry and crank out the same 10 images in an hour and you get paid $20-25 an hour plus benefits, if you're lucky, at a starting position.
Unless there is a land of milk and honey that I'm not aware of.
Robert Randall wrote:
This post is meant to be informative to the OP.
An ad agency I work with has an opening for a retoucher in their LA office. I thought it might be helpful for you to see what they require of the candidates that might be interested in their job offering.
... Well and even in the professional banking/business world where I spend my time there is sometimes a limit to how far a person can advance before they need a college degree, any college degree. So yes, we can thumb our noses at them a little (not you and I but in general), and I'm sure a lot of us have forgot most of what we learned back then, but that piece of paper can and does open doors that would otherwise have been shut.
Again...
Is it better to walk into an interview with a degree and some great retouching work or walk in with a handful of DVD's from people they may not have heard of and a list of workshops and youtube videos along with great work?
I wonder who would get the job?
Also, I'm sure the go-getting college student, to make the most of the money they are spending, would be working their ass off and would have been to some workshops or watched some of those same DVD's or videos anyway...
Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com
Retoucher
Adriano De Sena
Posts: 305
London, England, United Kingdom
Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
I mean, if I was hiring someone and I had a choice between a person with great work and no schooling vs a person with great work and a degree, I would go with the degree.
Is it better to walk into an interview with a degree and some great retouching work or walk in with a handful of DVD's from people they may not have heard of and a list of workshops and youtube videos along with great work?
I wonder who would get the job?
Also, I'm sure the go-getting college student, to make the most of the money they are spending, would be working their ass off and would have been to some workshops or watched some of those same DVD's anyway... all you need is your portfolio. nothing else. You portfolio speaks for itself!
Retoucher
201retarded
Posts: 74
Hoboken, New Jersey, US
Tincture wrote:
The best "school" you could hope for is to start working at a retouching studio and learn from the other retouchers there. There is no substitute for learning when there are stakes involved.
For what it's worth, all of the retouchers that I know have a degree in either photography or illustration. I'm not saying it's an absolute necessity, but it certainly doesn't hurt. +1
Retoucher
a k mac
Posts: 476
London, England, United Kingdom
Ashish Arora wrote:
Now that's some useful information Chris, I was looking for it, cos I have to further my studies in London next year most probably. Thanks! Among others, Rankin and Solve Sundsbo were students at London College of Communication (previously known as London College of Printing)
Photographer
Photography by Sean
Posts: 216
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Ryan Bater - Retoucher wrote:
I'm not looking for DVD's, but thanks
I want to do something interesting in university, something that requires a very good entry level. A mixture of advanced knowledge of graphic design, retouching, and advertising, I think.
I guess my best bet is asking lecturers, thank you for the information. Are you looking for pragmatic experience or for the bragging rights that going to school would bring?
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