John Horwitz wrote:

NOT ACCEPTED!!!

My only apology should be to those that never got to read my post.

K E E L I N G wrote:

Actually the longer this thread remains the less damage will occur.  Without this warning even more people may unwittingly buy subscriptions the magazine is selling despite the lack of a product.  At least this is giving them fair warning, isn't that a good thing?  Or is Miss Leigh's reputation the only important thing?

JM Dean wrote:
It amazes me how they can come out of nowhere when someone complains about not getting what they paid for…

http://www.carrieleigh.com/Nabout.html

Joel Adams wrote:

http://www.carrieleigh.com/Nabout.html

The same announcement was made on

Thursday, April 26, 2012 at http://drlightness.blogspot.com/
A piece of art history calls it a day

3 days after the OP paid for the magazine and at least a year after the last issue was printed.

Joel Adams wrote:

http://www.carrieleigh.com/Nabout.html

**shrugs**

Why not send out these to people who didn’t get any issues after paying or only got 1 or 2 issues? IMO that would be the right thing to do.

http://www.carrieleigh.com/Nstrbckiss.html

http://www.carrieleigh.com/Nstrcbe.html

K E E L I N G wrote:

Actually the longer this thread remains the less damage will occur.  Without this warning even more people may unwittingly buy subscriptions the magazine is selling despite the lack of a product.  At least this is giving them fair warning, isn't that a good thing?  Or is Miss Leigh's reputation the only important thing?

Just me giving you the silent treatment.

JM Dean wrote:

**shrugs**

Why not send out these to people who didn’t get any issues after paying or only got 1 or 2 issues? IMO that would be the right thing to do.

http://www.carrieleigh.com/Nstrbckiss.html

http://www.carrieleigh.com/Nstrcbe.html

Hmmmm....

I had given up on ever seeing my magazines but seeing as they still have stock, are still accepting orders for back-issues and there was a promise posted above that there would be an accounting of missed subscriptions I have resurrected my 19month long thread of emails to Nude Magazine about my missing issues.

What the hell, may as well give it another shot......

Fleming Design wrote:
Unbearable, do you think Carrie Leigh is so special in some way that she should be allowed to just keep the subscription money or do you think that she should face criminal charges, like anyone else would, if refunds are not made?  Mail fraud was mentioned earlier.

I don't think anyone suggested that Carrie Leigh keep subscription money, nor has Carrie Leigh implied she would... Maybe you should read her statement again...

Also... Magazines go out of business every day... when they do they close their doors with no regard to subscription holders... just a "Sorry. Out of business". So I give props to Carrie Leigh for even considering refunds, because it has never been done before... Never...

Another thing... I have said this before, but my messages have been deleted by moderators... You obviously do not understand what mail fraud is, so why not do some research before running your mouth and slandering someone.

Joel Adams wrote:

I don't think anyone suggested that Carrie Leigh keep subscription money, nor has Carrie Leigh implied she would... Maybe you should read her statement again...

Also... Magazines go out of business every day... when they do they close their doors with no regard to subscription holders... just a "Sorry. Out of business". So I give props to Carrie Leigh for even considering refunds, because it has never been done before... Never...

Another thing... I have said this before, but my messages have been deleted by moderators... You obviously do not understand what mail fraud is, so why not do some research before running your mouth and slandering someone.

Are you really Carrie Leigh?

Maxximages wrote:

Are you really Carrie Leigh?

I am very easily researched..

I explained my relationship to NUDE magazine, but the censor nazi deleted my post.

Maxximages wrote:

Are you really Carrie Leigh?

Really, I’m just here taking screen saves for legal purposes, trying to be silent and go about my business.  But, having had to look FOR DAYS at what is a nauseous gathering of haters, most of whom have never laid down a dollar for a NUDE magazine, I have to say that now I have seen everything. 

Don’t you people have anything to do with your time?  If you have no hobbies or interests and want to go on a protest against something, why don’t you turn  your time and energy to something to better a staggered world - toward environmental issues, the plight of the poor and starving all over the globe, the indecency of factory farming, the greed and corruption of the oil industry, political oppression, religious fanatics, and an endless list of problems that hang over the future of our children and grandchildren like a dark cloud.

Carrie Leigh made something beautiful to celebrate the art world.  This is what she gets for it? 

You have been given more explanation than you are entitled to by law or logic.  If anyone feels entitled, it is the haters in this thread.

Are you really artists or just wannabes upset that you couldn’t get published in NUDE and now it’s closing?  Why don’t you go home and make art, not war over a $12.95 art journal.  And get some counseling.

unbearable lightness wrote:

Really, I’m just here taking screen saves for legal purposes, trying to be silent and go about my business.  But, having had to look FOR DAYS at what is a nauseous gathering of haters, most of whom have never laid down a dollar for a NUDE magazine, I have to say that now I have seen everything. 

Don’t you people have anything to do with your time?  If you have no hobbies or interests and want to go on a protest against something, why don’t you turn  your time and energy to something to better a staggered world - toward environmental issues, the plight of the poor and starving all over the globe, the indecency of factory farming, the greed and corruption of the oil industry, political oppression, religious fanatics, and an endless list of problems that hang over the future of our children and grandchildren like a dark cloud.

Carrie Leigh made something beautiful to celebrate the art world.  This is what she gets for it? 

You have been given more explanation than you are entitled to by law or logic.  If anyone feels entitled, it is the haters in this thread.

Are you really artists or just wannabes upset that you couldn’t get published in NUDE and now it’s closing?  Why don’t you go home and make art, not war over a $12.95 art journal.  And get some counseling.

Spend the next two years walking into stores, picking up items, taking to the counter and paying for them, and then leaving them there as you walk out. Then come back and tell us how it's just not nice to the companies that sold you those items to bring to light that you never actually got what you paid for.

"oh, poor Carrie Leigh, you're all being so mean!" - its very simple. If they never wanted to be questioned or attacked or to make people upset with them, they should have either sent the items the people paid for, or taken the "buy a magazine!" button off their website the minute the printers stopped printing new copies. You don't just go "oops, I just kept taking your money! My bad." and wait until someone makes a public stink about it to finally make a statement about what you did. The fact that she didn't put on her website until after this happened that she was closing a magazine that was already two years gone shows that until someone was going to publicly say something, the whole scam would have continued, people would have kept losing their money.


Further, it's not up to you or anyone else to decide what amount of money is important to someone. We're not all a bunch of rich people who can throw 13 bucks away, for all you or anyone else knows some of these subscription holders were giving their last 13 bucks to support an artist they thought was worthy. I've certainly done it, I've seen other people do it. To a lot of people there is no such thing as "just 13 bucks" so it's terribly insulting to act like its not a big deal that they were ROBBED of their "just" 13 bucks.

Laura UnBound wrote:

Spend the next two years walking into stores, picking up items, taking to the counter and paying for them, and then leaving them there as you walk out. Then come back and tell us how it's just not nice to the companies that sold you those items to bring to light that you never actually got what you paid for.

"oh, poor Carrie Leigh, you're all being so mean!" - its very simple. If they never wanted to be questioned or attacked or to make people upset with them, they should have either sent the items the people paid for, or taken the "buy a magazine!" button off their website the minute the printers stopped printing new copies. You don't just go "oops, I just kept taking your money! My bad." and wait until someone makes a public stink about it to finally make a statement about what you did. The fact that she didn't put on her website until after this happened that she was closing a magazine that was already two years gone shows that until someone was going to publicly say something, the whole scam would have continued, people would have kept losing their money.


Further, it's not up to you or anyone else to decide what amount of money is important to someone. We're not all a bunch of rich people who can throw 13 bucks away, for all you or anyone else knows some of these subscription holders were giving their last 13 bucks to support an artist they thought was worthy. I've certainly done it, I've seen other people do it. To a lot of people there is no such thing as "just 13 bucks" so it's terribly insulting to act like its not a big deal that they were ROBBED of their "just" 13 bucks.

well said and thank you

Laura UnBound wrote:
the whole scam would have continued

Scam, Thief, Fraud... All ok in the eyes of MediocreMayhem's Moderators to let slide, though potentially libelous terms. But god forbid you call someone an a'hole or buffoon... Buffoon? OMG how horrible.. did I say that???

In my now hidden posts I tried to answer some of what has been talked about and what is being accused, but not only has what I have said been hidden... I have been told by two moderators now that if I edit what I had said... remove the buffoon calling... they would let me repost what I had said... but... not attempt has been made to return to me my posts. If it is the moderator's idea that I rewrite it all,  then piss off.. Unlike most who haunt your forums, I actually have work to do.

I am reminded by others of the true insignificance of the very few people posting here anyway. Some who held no subscriptions at all and just need something to cry about, and some who hold NUDE Magazine in contempt because their work was not accepted for the magazine. People who actually have a question about unfulfilled subscriptions since the announced closing of the Magazine, would do better actually reading Carrie's message on the NUDE Magazine site then to pay attention to the uninformed babblings here.

John Horwitz wrote:
I worked for a startup magazine in Chicago during the 1970's and was the only one who got paid. As far as I know 'George' the editor / publisher still owes many thousands of dollars to people and just quietly skipped town one day to fleece a new crowd in California.

So... Then you are very aware that it is not uncommon for a magazine to just disappear and leave people assed out... But you condemn and insult a publication that has said that they will make an accounting to subscribers??? I'll bet that you cannot find a publication that has gone out of business that cared the slightest for it's subscribers when the doors closed.. Not one.

Joel Adams wrote:
but... not attempt has been made to return to me my posts.

Is there a reason why you can't just retype it without whatever content there was that the mods objected to?

You do realize that a forum post isn't a tangible item that can be "taken away" and then "returned", right?

Just retype it.

John Horwitz wrote:
What I find truly sad is this: So many people were seduced by having either a name on the masthead or a first published piece that they failed to realize they held on to a falling star for too long and are now reluctant to admit their foolishness.

No one starts a business with any other intent than to make money - no one. "Celebration" is a cruel word used to induce others to part with work, money or ideas in order to make something of beauty, with little hope of financial gain for the one who gives. In the end you can't eat fame.

I worked for a startup magazine in Chicago during the 1970's and was the only one who got paid. As far as I know 'George' the editor / publisher still owes many thousands of dollars to people and just quietly skipped town one day to fleece a new crowd in California.

I did see one issue of Nude - while the photographs were well done it was, in my opinion doomed by this: that was all it had going for it. IMHO it lacked the diversity of Maxim, the softness of MetArt, or the wonderful articles of Playboy.

the people affected by the failure to produce the magazine are not only those who submitted to it. Regular people bought a product just to look at it. I have magazines I'm not in. Those people lost money too. Is it foolish to buy a subscription to a magazine with the understanding that the owners will actually produce said magazine you paid for? And if they fail to ever do so, return your money? Or at least stop taking new subscriptions for something that the owner knew damn well wouldn't be made?


Investing in a start up is one thing, everyone involved knows there's a risk it will fall through and money will be lost.

That is entirely different than a store saying "I physically HAVE a product ready for you to purchase, and when you do I will give it to you" and then not actually have said product. The website doesn't say "buy my magazine, I MIGHT put one together and send it to you...maybe"

Joel Adams wrote:

So... Then you are very aware that it is not uncommon for a magazine to just disappear and leave people assed out... But you condemn and insult a publication that has said that they will make an accounting to subscribers??? I'll bet that you cannot find a publication that has gone out of business that cared the slightest for it's subscribers when the doors closed.. Not one.

I really don't know why I am wading into this frivolous shit-fight...

I haven't read where anyone is arguing with you that when a magazine folds, the subscribers are SOL. It happened to me with a newspaper subscription I had. Annoying and frustrating, yes.

But what you don't seem to be grasping is that is not what others are saying. Their concern (if they are not subscribers) or their complaint (if they are) is that money was being accepted for a product that was no longer in production.

If I sell my car, that's one thing. But if I continue to sell my car after someone else has bought it and I know I can't provide what was purchased, I am in a helluva lot trouble.

Rob Domaschuk wrote:

Is there a reason why you can't just retype it without whatever content there was that the mods objected to?

You do realize that a forum post isn't a tangible item that can be "taken away" and then "returned", right?

Just retype it.

It was long and I will not give they who censored it the time needed to retype it.. It is not deleted, it is hidden and they can send it.

Joel Adams wrote:

Scam, Thief, Fraud... All ok in the eyes of MediocreMayhem's Moderators to let slide, though potentially libelous terms. But god forbid you call someone an a'hole or buffoon... Buffoon? OMG how horrible.. did I say that???

In my now hidden posts I tried to answer some of what has been talked about and what is being accused, but not only has what I have said been hidden... I have been told by two moderators now that if I edit what I had said... remove the buffoon calling... they would let me repost what I had said... but... not attempt has been made to return to me my posts. If it is the moderator's idea that I rewrite it all,  then piss off.. Unlike most who haunt your forums, I actually have work to do.

I am reminded by others of the true insignificance of the very few people posting here anyway. Some who held no subscriptions at all and just need something to cry about, and some who hold NUDE Magazine in contempt because their work was not accepted for the magazine. People who actually have a question about unfulfilled subscriptions since the announced closing of the Magazine, would do better actually reading Carrie's message on the NUDE Magazine site then to pay attention to the uninformed babblings here.

Could you possibly stop derailing the topic with your hissy fits about having your inflammatory post taken away from you? That would be cool. Retype it or move on.


Scam, thievery, fraud, are all adjectives being used to describe an action taken by a person, not attacking the personal character of someone. If you directly called a person a name, you broke a rule, stop doing it and your posts will stay put. Nobody (yet) has gone on to say inflammatory things like "Carrie Leigh is a theiving bitch who stole my money and ran with it and I hate her and I want her dead!", they've simply said her business practices in regards to an item shes producing suck. If someone starts calling Carrie names, I'm sure it will get hidden.

I'm also pretty sure people here aren't whining just because they're bitter they didn't get published. Their money was stolen. Plain and simple.

Joel Adams wrote:

It was long and I will not give they who censored it the time needed to retype it.. It is not deleted, it is hidden and they can send it.

Okay.

As long as your desire is to be obstinate instead of getting a point across, then carry on. :-)

Joel Adams wrote:

Scam, Thief, Fraud... All ok in the eyes of MediocreMayhem's Moderators to let slide, though potentially libelous terms. But god forbid you call someone an a'hole or buffoon... Buffoon? OMG how horrible.. did I say that???

In my now hidden posts I tried to answer some of what has been talked about and what is being accused, but not only has what I have said been hidden... I have been told by two moderators now that if I edit what I had said... remove the buffoon calling... they would let me repost what I had said... but... not attempt has been made to return to me my posts. If it is the moderator's idea that I rewrite it all,  then piss off.. Unlike most who haunt your forums, I actually have work to do.

I am reminded by others of the true insignificance of the very few people posting here anyway. Some who held no subscriptions at all and just need something to cry about, and some who hold NUDE Magazine in contempt because their work was not accepted for the magazine. People who actually have a question about unfulfilled subscriptions since the announced closing of the Magazine, would do better actually reading Carrie's message on the NUDE Magazine site then to pay attention to the uninformed babblings here.

Well said, Joel, and I hear you about having other things to do.  I want to quickly clarify that the last issue of NUDE was not two years ago.  Again, a look at the website http://www.carrieleigh.com would override the misinformation and psychobabble going on here.

We have stated that refunds will be sent, so what is the problem with these people???  For the most part, the complainers never purchased a NUDE online anyway.  That points to the only logical motive for their comments, and that would be to defame a business and a person.

Rob Domaschuk wrote:
But what you don't seem to be grasping is that is not what others are saying. Their concern (if they are not subscribers) or their complaint (if they are) is that money was being accepted for a product that was no longer in production.

Again.. In the posts that MM hid/censored... There were efforts being made to keep the publication going.. there were two issues ready to publish, but problems needed to be solved.. The decision to halt these efforts came recently. I myself was still creating works for future issues.

unbearable lightness wrote:
We have stated that refunds will be sent,

A spokeswoman emerges!

unbearable lightness wrote:
Well said, Joel, and I hear you about having other things to do.  I want to quickly clarify that the last issue of NUDE was not two years ago.  Again, a look at the website http://www.carrieleigh.com would override the misinformation and psychobabble going on here.

We have stated that refunds will be sent, so what is the problem with these people???  For the most part, the complainers never purchased a NUDE online anyway.  That points to the only logical motive for their comments, and that would be to defame a business and a person.

The problem is people up to two years ago never received their purchases, and it's taken until just days ago for the site to publicly talk about what they're doing to solve the problem. The minute there was an issue they should have notified the subscribers and those who purchased that there was an issue and they intended to resolve it, several people who posted here (and probably others who don't belong to this site or frequent the forums) had already just written it off as having their money stolen because they never got what they paid for and some of them never got an answer when they questioned it. Why wasn't it addressed before someone had to make a public deal about it? Where's the accountability?

It's also funny that I can still buy old editions, probably ones people who subscribed were never sent. If I go buy one right now will I actually get it? If there are extra copies sitting around why werent they sent to the people who actually subscribed for them? If not, why is that page still active?

John Horwitz wrote:
Joel, I'm getting the feeling you haven't been published before - it's time to leave the bitterness behind and move on son, there are bigger battles in life than this. It will eat you alive if you let it and soon you will be an old and bitter person...let it go son - let it goooooooooooooooooooo

That is funny John.. Any time you would like to compare credits... We are different fields, but I have no doubts mine might be a little more high profile... My MM Portfolio is not a representation of my career art or credits.

Laura UnBound wrote:
It's also funny that I can still buy old editions, probably ones people who subscribed were never sent. If I go buy one right now will I actually get it? If there are extra copies sitting around why werent they sent to the people who actually subscribed for them? If not, why is that page still active?

Uhm... Ever heard of overstock? Stock held for selling back issues? Warehouse remainders?? People aren't complaining about getting issues that were published after their subscriptions, they got those. If you want to order a back issue.. sure go ahead.. they are  still available and at a much lower price than you will find on ebay....