jsl wrote:
You took my meaning incorrectly. I am saying that there could be photographers out there trying to bust stereotypes and you (which is odd as you are the one being asked to pose) are being the naysayer.

What the hell's the sense of modeling if you are going to pigeonhole yourself? Okay, I know your time is limited, so do them as paid sessions if someone asks. Or not, I guess.

EDIT: Wait, I just read your bio. You aren't even doing trade shoots at this time. So am I supposed to believe you turn down paid work because the pics won't benefit your portfolio? Aren't you getting paid to pose? I was assuming you were talking about trade sessions. If you are getting paid offers that require you to pose in a genre you are used to working in and the only difference is you have to keep your clothes on, and are turning them down, you'll get no sympathy from me, sorry.

The only times I turn down paid work is in instances where I am asked to pose do erotica or shoot violence or gore, on philosophical and moral grounds. I am not getting paid offers to shoot fashion. If I did, I would.

As it is, I'm not asking for sympathy. Just perspective.

immateria wrote:
A part of me is frustrated because when I was 19 and weighed 114 pounds, and was first thinking about modeling, I lacked the confidence and wherewithal to pursue mainstream genres. Now I'm 26, and happy with my body, with a well-developed sense of awareness, and a part of me wishes that I could take that confidence back in time and transfer it to my 19-year-old self.

But I can't. And I have so many activities and goals outside of modeling, that I cannot allow myself to take on shoots that won't benefit me outside of just providing me pretty pictures.

what other guidance are you seeking?

dave phoenix wrote:
If someone wanted to see pretty clothes, they'd look at clothing catalogs. Don't think of a fashion magazine as a magazine with pictures of pretty clothes, with some fashion models thrown in to accentuate the clothing.

Think of it as a guide to a high-end, luxury lifestyle. Imagine you're an alien and you're coming to earth and you want to be seen as a rich, cool, stylish human. A fashion magazine would help you, even if there was no clothing in there whatsoever - it would show you what your apartment should look like, the kinds of places you should eat and drink, the kind of people you should hang out with, the kind of person you should date, the type of posture and facial expression you should use, everything. It would give you a general feel, a general sense of what kind of style is fashionable now.

Spot on! This is one of the best definitions I've ever heard.  Bravo!

cyberean wrote:


what other guidance are you seeking?

The only thing I am seeking is perspective on photographers who contact me that do not shoot within a genre that I fit into without clarifying their intent.

immateria wrote:
The only times I turn down paid work is in instances where I am asked to pose do erotica or shoot violence or gore, on philosophical and moral grounds. I am not getting paid offers to shoot fashion. If I did, I would.

As it is, I'm not asking for sympathy. Just perspective.

Well, I would suggest you just ask the photographers who propose this to you. Seems like you'll get a fairly direct answer as to what they are looking to shoot with you, as opposed to asking randomly in a forum thread.

O_o

immateria wrote:
The only thing I am seeking is perspective on photographers who contact me that do not shoot within a genre that I fit into without clarifying their intent.

unless you haven't already done so... it would seem the shortest path to understanding their intent would be to contact them directly... to discuss and offer insight you seek

anything else would be speculative, at best  ...
as i suspect (??) all those responding in this thread aren't the ones contacting you

jsl wrote:
Well, I would suggest you just ask the photographers who propose this to you. Seems like you'll get a fairly direct answer as to what they are looking to shoot with you, as opposed to asking randomly in a forum thread.

O_o

cyberean wrote:
unless you haven't already done so... it would seem the shortest path to understanding their intent would be to contact them directly... to discuss and offer insight you seek

anything else would be speculative, at best  ...
as i suspect (??) all those responding in this thread aren't the ones contacting you

I have asked for clarification, I'm just also curious in a wider outlook.

Forums are good for that kind of thing

Incidentally, as I'm sure you're aware, replying to a PM doesn't guarantee a response back. Clarification doesn't always come.

immateria wrote:
I get asked to do fashion nudes,

WTF is fashion nudes some sort of internet invented gibber.
I think I'll invent some gibber words ' fashion topless'.

immateria wrote:
...

Incidentally, as I'm sure you're aware, replying to a PM doesn't guarantee a response back. Clarification doesn't always come.

then i would suggest they weren't/aren't *serious* with their inquiry ...

anyone who is, would/should, IMO, at the very least offer a courtesy response and elaborate

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
WTF is fashion nudes some sort of internet invented gibber.
I think I'll invent some gibber words ' fashion topless'.

They are nudes shot in a fashion style. Oddly enough.

Also: www.thefashiontit.com

cyberean wrote:


then i would suggest they weren't/aren't *serious* with their inquiry ...

anyone who is, would/should, IMO, at the very least offer a courtesy response and elaborate

You're very correct. But that still leaves to to search for answers to these sort of deep, philosophical quandaries in the forums.

immateria wrote:

You're very correct. But that still leaves to to search for answers to these sort of deep, philosophical quandaries in the forums.

be careful what you ask for ...

cause stuff around here can get 'deep'

... justa different kinda *deep*   : D

cyberean wrote:


be careful what you ask for ...

cause stuff around here can get 'deep'

... justa different kinda *deep*   : D

...

I don't want to know.

And I've been hanging 'round here for, like, five years.

immateria wrote:
I get contacted by them from time to time. Sometimes, I get asked to do fashion nudes, and I see examples of what they have in mind, and sure, I can do that. I've loved getting back the images from those shoots.

But once in a while, I get an ambiguous "I want to work with you." from a person who doesn't have any nude work in their work either on here or on their websites, and I don't know what to do with it.

I'm never going to be a fashion model. I'm 26, and while the lower end of my weight spectrum makes me fashion-shaped, I spend about half my time being slender, but definitely not supermodel waify. There is no sense for me to build a portfolio that will not realistically translate into getting me paid work.

I guess I'm confused because, after years of hanging round the forums and getting the "Read newmodels.com" sorts of advice tidbits to models with unrealistic expectations of changing the industry, I don't understand why I get encouraged to step out of the realistic expectations I've set for myself as a model.

While I'm not a fashion photographer, I will say that from my perspective I CAN totally see why anyone would want to work with you, and have thought so for a very long time.

If my only chance to shoot you was shooting head shots, I would without hesitation.  Not sure why we'd want to do such a silly thing, but I've been that impressed for quite some time.  Yes, you have a wonderful figure and shape, but you have a very cool face too. 

(Eastern Europe/Russian bone structure, *sigh*)

Having you do artistic nudes or fashion nudes makes perfect sense to me, and even "fun" nudes, but quite simply it does not confuse me in the least why anyone would want to work with you.

Not only do I hope we can work together some day, I'd love to hear you sing too.

So, there is my $0.03

immateria wrote:

They are nudes shot in a fashion style. Oddly enough.

Also: www.thefashiontit.com

Ahh yes It was on the front cover of Vogue........ Fashion nude issue with an editorial  'fashion tit'.

It's f'ing web site internet invented gibberish.

immateria wrote:
I actually thought about starting this thread on the topic of more direct communication, because the bottom line is that every time I get a message of "I'm a fashion photographer, and I want to work with you" and nothing else, I end of pulling my hair going: "What do you want from me?!" until I get clarification. Life would be easier of people were just more upfront about what they are looking to do.

How many of these ambiguous requests, after clarification, turn out to have been nude requests, and how many turn out to be clothed requests?

c_h_r_i_s wrote:

Ahh yes It was on the front cover of Vogue........ Fashion nude issue with an editorial  'fashion tit'.

It's f'ing web site internet invented gibberish.

It's funny how you're the only person in this thread to take umbrage at a term, and to decide to derail it with your off-topic vitriol.

CP_ wrote:

How many of these ambiguous requests, after clarification, turn out to have been nude requests, and how many turn out to be clothed requests?

Let's put it this way: the people I end up shooting with are usually the people who told me they want to shoot nudes upfront.

That could change.

Lately, outside of this whole fashion issue, every time I've had contact with an artist who hasn't been straightforward with what they want from the beginning, the shoot just ends up being scrapped down the line anyway. Or maybe I'm just attracting a lot of flakes. I've been having a rough time of it, lately.

immateria wrote:
A part of me is frustrated because when I was 19 and weighed 114 pounds, and was first thinking about modeling, I lacked the confidence and wherewithal to pursue mainstream genres. Now I'm 26, and happy with my body, with a well-developed sense of awareness, and a part of me wishes that I could take that confidence back in time and transfer it to my 19-year-old self.

But I can't. And I have so many activities and goals outside of modeling, that I cannot allow myself to take on shoots that won't benefit me outside of just providing me pretty pictures.

Oh believe me too immateria,

I certainly wish I could take my current confidence, drive, knowlege and wherewithall right back to my 17 year old self too, when I was the same height but minus the years and weight!  We cannot. However, I would go on and accept those offers, (if from non flakes) and not fight it. Embrace the "where" you, (and I) are know because in 20 years you, (or I) don't want to be saying the very same thing about wishing we could go back to ourselves with our current knowledge.

Right? Go shoot! Don't fight it.
Jen
p.s. edit: however, not just for pretty pictures though, have a goal, even if it is in just developing a relationship with a photographer who will return the gesture in kind to give you things that will benefit your portfolio or modeling goals but, I wouldn't completely dismiss, a non flake photographer, without discussing the anticipated outcomes for mutual benefit.

immateria wrote:

The only thing I am seeking is perspective on photographers who contact me that do not shoot within a genre that I fit into without clarifying their intent.

I don't see why you wouldn't necessarily fit the genre. You're the right height and size. You can pose, and are comfortable in front of the camera.  Right there, you beat the majority of the models on here who want to be "fashion models"

Lots of fashion editorials are done with actors who aren't at all fashion size or height. Sometimes it's just as much about the subject of the photos, as anything else.

Neil Snape wrote:
fashion is about the portrait of you, or at least the best is. You are not the norm for fashion, yet thin enough and enough form that you certainly can do some great pix. As long as the stylist knows your size, I can't see any reason you can't.

Just to add confusion...

I'm with Neil and a couple of others on this. Yes, at 26 you are not the hot new face everyone is looking for, but everything else about you works for fashion (including the nudity thing, no one gets naked faster than a fashion model!). Surprisingly enough the big earning years for most "fashion" models is after they hit their mid twenties, it's hard to sell luxury products and services when the model doesn't look like they belong there (think cruise lines, high end restaurants, luxury cars, etc.). Yes, I know that is commercial ad work, but that's where fashion models make a lot of money. How you are positioned (as a commercial model or a fashion model) in the industry has an enormous impact on the rates charged. The rates Next (as an example) gets their models for commercial work is much higher than what you would get for the same job being booked through a commercial agency.

You're 5'9, have a killer body (I'm trying not to say "great breasts" but let's get real here!), and you have an attractive face. Would I expect you to be walking fashion week in New York? Probably not, but would I think you'd would book a lot of lingerie catalog work? Sure. The next time a "fashion photographer" gets in touch with you, look at his/her work carefully. If they are being published, you probably should "test" with them, it could open some doors.

And if you want to get some spectacular nude shots, you're more likely to get those from a real fashion photographer than from anyone else!

All of this is meant in what I think was your intention in opening this thread, I'm not saying you have to do anything, but neither are as many options closed to you as you might think. You are 5'9, thin, live in New York City (if you lived in Cleveland I'd probably not suggest all of this), so why not? Fashion, as in purely editorial fashion, is a pretty closed set, but fashion as it's understood and practiced by the fashion agencies has far more blurry lines than most people think.

John
--
John Fisher
900 West Avenue, Suite 633
Miami Beach, Florida 33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com

John Fisher wrote:

I'm with Neil and a couple of others on this. Yes, at 26 you are not the hot new face everyone is looking for, but everything else about you works for fashion (including the nudity thing, no one gets naked faster than a fashion model!). Surprisingly enough the big earning years for most "fashion" models is after they hit their mid twenties, it's hard to sell luxury products and services when the model doesn't look like they belong there (think cruise lines, high end restaurants, luxury cars, etc.). Yes, I know that is commercial ad work, but that's where fashion models make a lot of money. How you are positioned (as a commercial model or a fashion model) in the industry has an enormous impact on the rates charged. The rates Next (as an example) gets their models for commercial work is much higher than what you would get for the same job being booked through a commercial agency.

You're 5'9, have a killer body (I'm trying not to say "great breasts" but let's get real here!), and you have an attractive face. Would I expect you to be walking fashion week in New York? Probably not, but would I think you'd would book a lot of lingerie catalog work? Sure. The next time a "fashion photographer" gets in touch with you, look at his/her work carefully. If they are being published, you probably should "test" with them, it could open some doors.

And if you want to get some spectacular nude shots, you're more likely to get those from a real fashion photographer than from anyone else!

All of this is meant in what I think was your intention in opening this thread, I'm not saying you have to do anything, but neither are as many options closed to you as you might think. You are 5'9, thin, live in New York City (if you lived in Cleveland I'd probably not suggest all of this), so why not? Fashion, as in purely editorial fashion, is a pretty closed set, but fashion as it's understood and practiced by the fashion agencies has far more blurry lines than most people think.

John
--
John Fisher
900 West Avenue, Suite 633
Miami Beach, Florida 33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com

Between you and Neil, this thread is closed.
She has gotten answers to her question. The rest is up to the OP.

John Fisher wrote:

I'm with Neil and a couple of others on this. Yes, at 26 you are not the hot new face everyone is looking for, but everything else about you works for fashion (including the nudity thing, no one gets naked faster than a fashion model!). Surprisingly enough the big earning years for most "fashion" models is after they hit their mid twenties, it's hard to sell luxury products and services when the model doesn't look like they belong there (think cruise lines, high end restaurants, luxury cars, etc.). Yes, I know that is commercial ad work, but that's where fashion models make a lot of money. How you are positioned (as a commercial model or a fashion model) in the industry has an enormous impact on the rates charged. The rates Next (as an example) gets their models for commercial work is much higher than what you would get for the same job being booked through a commercial agency.

You're 5'9, have a killer body (I'm trying not to say "great breasts" but let's get real here!), and you have an attractive face. Would I expect you to be walking fashion week in New York? Probably not, but would I think you'd would book a lot of lingerie catalog work? Sure. The next time a "fashion photographer" gets in touch with you, look at his/her work carefully. If they are being published, you probably should "test" with them, it could open some doors.

And if you want to get some spectacular nude shots, you're more likely to get those from a real fashion photographer than from anyone else!

All of this is meant in what I think was your intention in opening this thread, I'm not saying you have to do anything, but neither are as many options closed to you as you might think. You are 5'9, thin, live in New York City (if you lived in Cleveland I'd probably not suggest all of this), so why not? Fashion, as in purely editorial fashion, is a pretty closed set, but fashion as it's understood and practiced by the fashion agencies has far more blurry lines than most people think.

John
--
John Fisher
900 West Avenue, Suite 633
Miami Beach, Florida 33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com

Oh, wow! Thanks. I really appreciate this. I see what you mean.

I have gotten great nudes from fashion photographers, but I certainly haven't looked at things quite this way.

immateria wrote:

Oh, wow! Thanks. I really appreciate this. I see what you mean.

I have gotten great nudes from fashion photographers, but I certainly haven't looked at things quite this way.

Face it... you're awesome... .  any questions?