boy does makeup wrote:
so guess what... I did a full face of makeup last week... used lashes, SFX products, and lots of 'extra's that I had to come out of pocket for... and you know what, I did it for free... because I can.

Sure... I can charge $200-$300 for my half/full day rate (and often do) but only if I feel like it. I also shoot for free, or for cupcakes, and sometimes I won't shoot with someone regardless of compensation... because I can.

Not quite sure what is your point here... unless it was a test or something great for your book.

I thought making money doing makeup was one of the main points of being a full time makeup artist...?

Maria V Bortolussi wrote:

Not quite sure what is your point here... unless it was a test or something great for your book.

I thought making money doing makeup was one of the main points of being a full time makeup artist...?

nah... it was neither. I rarely have a need to 'test' anymore... and my book is decent enough without having to update it every time I shoot. Of course the majority of the images I get back are GOOD FOR MY BOOK (because I choose my projects based on interest/creativity, and less on compensation) Also, money isn't everything... and I can/do make money otherwise. (Makeup Consultation, Photography, Press Releases, Marketing, etc) My point is that people whine too much about undercutting, when they have no control over it.

As I have explained in a few other threads... there always has and always will be undercutting, there will always be those who choose who they want to work with regardless of compensation, and there will always be those willing to accept an inferior product for a lower price. - it's amazing how many people are confused when our team posts images from photoshoots... and the budget for the whole shoot was less than $20, Photography/Model/MUAH/Wardrobe/etc... and yeah, we've done some stuff with absolutely no budget... nobody was paid, with no promise of usable images, or profitability. - but AMAZING IMAGES were created and later sold. We also let models market/sell prints of their work, (love breaking the rules) we don't whine about copyright, or charge models, and we don't have to deal with agencies (even though many models we work with are agency repped) we don't have to come out of pocket for hardly anything....

because, instead of charging astronomical amounts for the privilege of working with us... we build lasting relationships.

even more fun... I turn down paid work if it conflicts with the scheduling of my FREE shoots with my team. - so... in effect LOSING money, but gaining SO MUCH MORE.

this reminds me recently of a photographer posting a HUGE WAD OF CASH on FB, and was being nasty to 'wanna be models' who aren't making a ton of cash. I had to laugh, because its those 'wanna be models' that got him all that cash... and the best part: obviously his life is in such a wonderful place that a picture of paper money, and some snarky comments about personal success is ALL HE HAS to try and make himself happy.

so yeah... keep chasing that paper, I guess.

-Jarret
Boy Does Makeup

Keila Sone wrote:
The new MUA did not get paid because she was just happy to work with an agency...moral of the story is work is work and if I would had let that slide they would have never paid for work again and as we all know too well everyone knows each other in the fashion industry,I don't want to have the reputation that I will work for free...unfortunately that very skilled MUA has just gain that reputation.

So have you ever worked for TFP?

KJB wrote:
I wrote this only 3-4 months ago, but it deserves a re-post:

To all HMS members who are braking into paid jobs (not TF, specs or testing), welcome to: Negotiation 101

The first and MOST important thing to understand is that if you want make H/M/S your primary source of income, you need to treat it like a REAL business.
You need to have solid base rates to guide your negotiations.
And to set realistic rates you need to know what the majority of artists:
- at your experience level
- with similar credentials
- in your geographic market
are being paid for the jobs you are trying to book.
You're going to have to do some serious research to get this data, but it is essential. Once you have a good cross section of these rates, add them up and average them out. Take that number and raise it slightly. This will give you a good starting rate and will prevent you from accidentally undercutting anyone at your level.

IMPORTANT: Don't get stuck worrying about the Craigslist and MM "discount artist/stylist" - they aren't laying the foundation for a career by charging this way and will never establish the solid foundation needed to build a sustainable business.  The "discount artist/stylist" is NOT your competition and will not be booking the jobs you want.  REPEAT: They are not competition for the legitimate paying jobs that will move your career forward.

Never quote a rate until you know what the budget is. The client or photographer always know how much money they have allotted for H/M/S. If they refuses to tell you what they have budgeted for your job, something is not legit and you should be concerned. Don't confront them, simply ask them to get back to you when they have the budget worked out.
That's not being bitchy or being a "diva" (as some photographers on MM would chose to call it) - It's being a smart business person.

You don't have to be rigid about rates when you're the one doing the negotiating. Adjusting your rate for a project that offers advantages to move your career forward in a tangible way is totally acceptable. (tangible = it will get you more paid jobs)

Industry Standards for Booking in the Real World (outside of "MM World")

Half or Full Day Rate:
Photo - Editorial/Commercial/Advertising
Film & Video - Music/Theatrical/Reality
Live Media Events - Press Junket/Satellite Tour/Runway/Fashion Show

SPECIAL NOTE:
Runway/Fashion Shows can also be booked at a Flat Rate. NEVER "Per Model".
EXTRA SPECIAL NOTE:
Kit Fees are charged ONLY for Film & Video bookings.

Flat Rate or Per Client Rate:
Salon
Headshots
Glamour Studio
Special Event/ Bridal/Prom

EXTRA EXTRA SPECIAL NOTE:
"Per Look" is a booking term that does not exist outside of MM or GWC World. Please do not offer it to a legitimate, paying client outside of MM - it's will show your inexperience and possibly damage your credibility.

I think that just about covers all the basics.

And to any of you reading this post who wish to HIRE an artist/stylist...
Always remember, you get what you pay for.

Thx Kevin 4 sharing this vital 411. U r such an inspiration