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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


JessicaBaker wrote:
I don't think my measurements are relevant to the original discussion. I'm not saying it's disgusting. I'm just not a fan of your unprovoked critique and the off-guess of the size. Nobody likes someone to guess their size wrong, nothing against you personally.

ehm, where did I critique you?
you ask what work girls your size can do, and you talk about plussize and fashion sizes. Size is important, and your real size is determined by you measurements, not by what you wear in a store. I wear a 12 in most stores, but that doesn't make me a 12... in modelling, it's about the measurements. So yes, it's relevant.

i tried to give you a helpful, kind, informative reply, there's really no need to get all butthurt.

Jan 03 13 02:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,286
Atlanta, Georgia, US


The term is stupid and sounds a bit insulting to others.

I see a lot of commercial, advertising, glamour, and fitness llamas that are not size 0-2s.  They still need the height (and measurements) but there is more latitude on physique and would think this would be the best route for a llama who isn't going to be fashion standard.

twocents
Jan 03 13 02:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,512
Los Angeles, California, US


Ford +, New York:

http://models.fordmodels.com/models/11/talents/13477
5'11.5 Size 10 (and clearly not big at all)

http://models.fordmodels.com/models/11/talents/27528
5'10 size 10

http://models.fordmodels.com/models/11/talents/13018
5'10 size 8-10

So, for some girls who fit into those sizes, plus is an option.
Jan 03 13 02:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,512
Los Angeles, California, US


AJScalzitti wrote:
The term is stupid and sounds a bit insulting to others.

I see a lot of commercial, advertising, glamour, and fitness models that are not size 0-2s.  They still need the height but there is more latitude on physique and would think this would be the best route for a model who isn't going to be fashion standard.

twocents

How did I forget glamour?

Le duh.

Also an option.

Jan 03 13 02:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4,058
New York, New York, US


JessicaBaker wrote:

I didn't ask about MY size. I asked about the range of sizes from 4-10. So my specific measurements are not relevant. I completely agree that 12/14 is minimum/preferred. Therefore, that's why I asked about the range that I did.

You need to get more specific, as depending on where in that size range a model falls and what city she's in......the answer differs.

Jan 03 13 02:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dave phoenix
Posts: 1,272
Phoenix, Arizona, US


If a llamaing agency has a plus board and there are girls 6-10 on there, great. If another has a board and calls it "real size" and there are girls 12-18 there, then great.

Debating whether one is correct or not is pointless. The agencies can call the boards whatever they want, and they exist to satisfy the demands of clients who are looking to hire llamas, so they're going to market the girls however they see fit. You can disagree with the terms all you want, but I'm 100% certain that llamaing agencies have NO interest in your thoughts on the issue.

Feel free to call an agency and say "I think you should call your board 'real girls' instead of 'plus' because plus is insulting to me" - just make sure to report back with the results.
Jan 03 13 02:11 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


dave phoenix wrote:
Feel free to call an agency and say "I think you should call your board 'real girls' instead of 'plus' because plus is insulting to me" - just make sure to report back with the results.

it's actually a term that came from the plussize community smile. mostly bigger women who were fed up with seeing size 10 models described as plus, and want the term plus to only be used for models like size 16-18. it's not an official term or anything, there's just lots of arguing going on big_smile (it's quite a broad niche, sizewize...)

but yeah, it's silly really. it's just a word...

Jan 03 13 02:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JessicaB - Model
Posts: 122
Jacksonville, Florida, US


Thank you everyone for your discussion. I appreciate it.
Jan 03 13 02:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dave phoenix
Posts: 1,272
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:
it's actually a term that came from the plussize community smile. mostly bigger women who were fed up with seeing size 10 models described as plus, and want the term plus to only be used for models like size 16-18. it's not an official term or anything, there's just lots of arguing going on big_smile (it's quite a broad niche, sizewize...)

but yeah, it's silly really. it's just a word...

well, yeah, like i said - people who don't like size 10 models being described as plus are free to complain as much as they like to each other online, but they're just wasting their own time.

agencies will continue to conduct business, call their models whatever they want to call them, and keep making money.

it's not like someone at elite in new york is going to go, "what? people on online forums don't like the term plus? STOP EVERYTHING, we've got to change it to make them happy!"

Jan 03 13 02:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Autumn Rose Brightly
Posts: 1,091
Crowley, Texas, US


JessicaBaker wrote:

Not a 12 at all, more like 8-10. I'd rather not call myself plus, thanks.

Plus is not a derogatory term, thanks. I am a proud plus model even though I don't fit what non-industry defines as a plus-woman

Jan 03 13 02:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sabine Luise
Posts: 890
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Damianne wrote:

Aw, I'm a fake girl.

sad I am not even considered. lmao!

Jan 03 13 09:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Autumn Rose Brightly
Posts: 1,091
Crowley, Texas, US


Sabine  wrote:

sad I am not even considered. lmao!

You are considered...as absolutely beautiful big_smile

Jan 03 13 09:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The F-Stop
Posts: 1,436
New York, New York, US


I'm a real size photogrpher.. that count?

Love real size.. soft curves.. so beautiful!
Jan 03 13 09:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sabine Luise
Posts: 890
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Autumn Rose Brightly wrote:

You are considered...as absolutely beautiful big_smile

Bah! The flattery...

Thanks and you too of course.

Jan 03 13 09:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Undead Threads
Posts: 574
Greenville, South Carolina, US


I judge models 95% by looks.  I don't really care about size. besides in the real world 4-11 is still on the slim side.
Jan 03 13 09:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Autumn Rose Brightly
Posts: 1,091
Crowley, Texas, US


My size is L for lovely
But M's are marvelous
S's are stunning
XS's are extra sweet
XL's are extra loveable

These letters and numbers have as much or as little power as we (as individuals) give them. I choose to be happy no matter my letter(s)/number(s)
Jan 03 13 09:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nico Simon Princely
Posts: 1,653
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


model emily  wrote:
I'm a real size 2.  tongue

The reason sizes 6-10 might be called "REAL SIZE" is because it's "no man's land" for any mainstream fashion modeling, so "real size" is simply a made-up term to comfort and appease women who don't fit the standards.

The fact you say you've heard this terminology from agencies supports this theory.

It doesn't mean you can't do other types of modeling -- fitness and glamour and art and (some) commercial modeling are open to you outside of these size standards.

EDIT:  As a slight tangent ...   Modeling is a job.  While we may not be able to change the industry, we can stop letting terms like this and the fashion industry define us as people.  Every once in awhile I'll see something stupid posted on Facebook, usually by a big girl, that juxtaposes a photo of a large plus size model next to a tiny thin model and it says something ignorant and obnoxious like "REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES" or "BIGGER IS BETTER".   This is sort of akin to "reverse racism" -- cruelty is cruelty.  I like TAYLOR's post below.

+1

I'm so tired of fat people putting thin people down. Being fat is most often a lifestyle choice, because people choose to accept it.

I know a girl a MUA I worked with that was about 200lbs. I shot her doing makeup on a model for her MUA port. She looked at the picture and said "OMG I look like that!" and she changed her diet, workout and is now about 120lbs looks greats does both MUA and modeling and I'm super proud of her!

Her whole family was overweight. She did not buy the B.S. excuse that it was genetic and and she was right.

I also know many girls that have gone the other direction due to poor diet, lack of exercise and too much Alcohol.

If you like being fat,heavy BBW what ever you want to call it fine but don't put other people down for taking care of themselves and wanting to look good and feel good.

Likewise don't put down the fat people, but honestly I think there is much less of that these days.

Jan 03 13 10:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,863
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


JessicaBaker wrote:
So we all know that fashion standard is < size 4 and plus is often > size 12. I, like many others, fall into the middle of these and are labeled "real size." I often struggle with getting work because of this. Do any of you other real size models have this problem? What type of modeling do most women between sizes 4-10 do?

This question is not to critique my pictures, criticize me for using a term I didn't even make up, or to provoke negativity. It's just a simple question. If you don't have anything positive to contribute, please just don't say anything.

Postive thing to contribute:
There are more areas of modeling than the one small single section that would request a size four.
Personal thing to contribute: I am a real size too and a real woman as well, (I know you say you didn't create the term but, you are using it so I am responding. smile)

post edit:

JessicaBaker wrote:
Not a 12 at all, more like 8-10. I'd rather not call myself plus, thanks.

Plus size models that I've met or watched on runway totally ROCK! They got "it" going on. I've wished that if I ever could manage to get big that I could work it like that. Most any fashion show I've done with plus size models they get applause and accolades, not the slim models. Local shows and dance performances I've been a part of here in Alaska, and in San Antonio and Chicago have had the crowd elevate in cheer and applause when the plus size ladies come out. smile
They are fabulous.
Jen
p.s. blast from the past memory of a compliment I got once...in Chicago in the era of tight skinny jeans in the 80's was when a coworker saw me in street clothes and out of uniform and he said in surprise. "oh! you are a little 'big' girl!" meaning that I had shape. I really took that as a huge compliment! I'd love to consider myself as a little Big gal.

Jan 03 13 10:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,863
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


K I C K H A M wrote:

Really? I've never heard an agency use that term.

Me either. Closest I can tell is that I've heard both Life-style and Plus size.
Jen

Jan 03 13 10:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,863
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


dave phoenix wrote:
...Feel free to call an agency and say "I think you should call your board 'real girls' instead of 'plus' because plus is insulting to me" - just make sure to report back with the results.

Actually Sir,

The way that it is insulting is not in calling "Plus" but in calling "real" because it insintuates that all other sizes are not "real women."

Every heard the term "real women have curves?" That is pretty unkind to women who do not have curves and mass. We are all equally women and beautiful regardless of size.

Saying skinny is as unkind as saying fat, (at least I think so.) Saying that someone should "put some meat" on their bones is as insulting as asking a larger person if they really need to eat that 'whatever'. No?

Jen

Jan 03 13 10:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4,058
New York, New York, US


Nico Simon Princely wrote:

+1

I'm so tired of fat people putting thin people down. Being fat is most often a lifestyle choice, because people choose to accept it.

I know a girl a MUA I worked with that was about 200lbs. I shot her doing makeup on a model for her MUA port. She looked at the picture and said "OMG I look like that!" and she changed her diet, workout and is now about 120lbs looks greats does both MUA and modeling and I'm super proud of her!

Her whole family was overweight. She did not buy the B.S. excuse that it was genetic and and she was right.

I also know many girls that have gone the other direction due to poor diet, lack of exercise and too much Alcohol.

If you like being fat,heavy BBW what ever you want to call it fine but don't put other people down for taking care of themselves and wanting to look good and feel good.

Likewise don't put down the fat people, but honestly I think there is much less of that these days.

While I agree with the general point that one shouldn't insult thinner women as less than "real" or to bolster curvier women...... I also have to point out the obvious:

Depending on the height of the girl, a size 6-10 is far from fat. Just not fashion standard.

Jan 03 13 10:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,286
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Paige Morgan wrote:

While I agree with the general point that one shouldn't insult thinner women as less than "real" or to bolster curvier women...... I also have to point out the obvious:

Depending on the height of the girl, a size 6-10 is far from fat. Just not fashion standard.

I was once told that 'real size' was what fat girls call themselves to feel good about being fat.

I think some people feel that way because in many cases people who were saying it were in fact trying to put down the slimmer girls - its just not appropriate one way or the other.

As for the fashion industry, it is what it is.  Not everyone can do it, physically or emotionally and that is fine.  Why would this career be any different than another?  Not everyone can become a doctor, lawyer, engineer or pilot.

Jan 03 13 10:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sabine Luise
Posts: 890
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I really didn't get body hate from the OP even though the title wasn't worded right.

Anyway it was going to go "there". C YA
Jan 03 13 10:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4,058
New York, New York, US


AJScalzitti wrote:

I was once told that 'real size' was what fat girls call themselves to feel good about being fat.

I think some people feel that way because in many cases people who were saying it were in fact trying to put down the slimmer girls - its just not appropriate one way or the other.

As for the fashion industry, it is what it is.  Not everyone can do it, physically or emotionally and that is fine.  Why would this career be any different than another?  Not everyone can become a doctor, lawyer, engineer or pilot.

I don't disagree with any of that(The "real women" premise being hurtful/flawed, not glorifying one body type at the expense of another, and fashion being a specific beast)

I just disagree with Nico Simon Princely's assertion that a size 6-10 should be considered a BBW big_smile

Depending on height, that's not large at all.

Jan 03 13 11:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,286
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Paige Morgan wrote:

I don't disagree with any of that(The "real women" premise being hurtful/flawed, not glorifying one body type at the expense of another, and fashion being a specific beast)

I just disagree with Nico Simon Princely's assertion that a size 6-10 should be considered a BBW big_smile

Depending on height, that's not large at all.

I think the BBW girls would take issue with that as well big_smile

Jan 03 13 11:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4,058
New York, New York, US


AJScalzitti wrote:

I think the BBW girls would take issue with that as well big_smile

I think any rational creature would at least give that assertion the side eye. Smaller girls, larger girls, dudes, the more intelligent companion animals etc. big_smile

Jan 03 13 11:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Undead Threads
Posts: 574
Greenville, South Carolina, US


Autumn Rose Brightly wrote:
Plus is not a derogatory term, thanks. I am a proud plus model even though I don't fit what non-industry defines as a plus-woman

Just wonted to jump in here. A good plus size model is hard to find. been looking for months. to find a local one...

I think people in general think Pulse = fat they don't get how small a pulse size can be. even up around a 16 can still look slim in photos.

Jan 03 13 11:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Serena Toxicat
Posts: 313
Oakland, California, US


RS is the NOS of modeling.
Jan 04 13 12:06 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


I'm eternally amused by the hesitance to accept shallow judgements in a field where what you look like is all you're selling.
Jan 04 13 12:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glenn Hall - Fine Art
Posts: 431
Townsville, Queensland, Australia


I like my models to have some meat.
Jan 04 13 01:42 am  Link  Quote 
Model
AllisonLael
Posts: 704
Los Angeles, California, US


They starve to have 'normal fashion stats'. Or they eat more, work out, bulk up to be 'plus'. And yes, when I lived in NYC an 8, and even once met a model who was a 6, was considered plus.

Or, do all the other kinds of modeling...glamour, fetish, commercial (depending on size and look), spokesmodeling/tradeshows (sometimes they care about size, sometimes not), fitness?, nude, art, ....
Jan 04 13 02:38 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


Damianne wrote:
I'm eternally amused by the hesitance to accept shallow judgements in a field where what you look like is all you're selling.

look is much more than just size though smile

Jan 04 13 02:42 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


AllisonLael wrote:
They starve to have 'normal fashion stats'. Or they eat more, work out, bulk up to be 'plus'. And yes, when I lived in NYC an 8, and even once met a model who was a 6, was considered plus.

not only wrong, but insulting to both sides.

Jan 04 13 02:42 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:

look is much more than just size though smile

Oh absolutely.
But what an absolute doll and complete sweetheart you are, Anna, is the least important thing that makes you a fantastic model, although it makes you a great asset to our community.

Jan 04 13 03:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Harold Rose
Posts: 2,925
Calhoun, Georgia, US


JessicaBaker wrote:
So we all know that fashion standard is < size 4 and plus is often > size 12. I, like many others, fall into the middle of these and are labeled "real size." I often struggle with getting work because of this. Do any of you other real size models have this problem? What type of modeling do most women between sizes 4-10 do?

This question is not to critique my pictures, criticize me for using a term I didn't even make up, or to provoke negativity. It's just a simple question. If you don't have anything positive to contribute, please just don't say anything.

Most of my work is in the  South East part of USA.    Have to admit that this is out of the  Fashion market..   When I use a model,   it usually has nothing to do with her size.  A stove (range)   usually looks better with a short or smaller model (to make the stove look larger)    Soft drink machines look better with a larger model.. (large bulky machines are a negative)   to make the vending machine look less bulky.    Agri-culture,  us just more of most anyghing can be worked with...      A size 14 overpowers a Mo-Ped,   Tourist postcards and advertising, is  just place you model well..   

Advice:    Keep in contact with all the advertising agencys in a 200 mile radious..  make sure to get sheets to  all  art directors..    Repeat every 3 months..  It doesn't hurt to make regular contact with  TV station art directors..  E mail me for   other discussions..

Jan 04 13 03:18 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


Damianne wrote:
Oh absolutely.
But what an absolute doll and complete sweetheart you are, Anna, is the least important thing that makes you a fantastic llama, although it makes you a great asset to our community.

bahaha :p

there's this scene in the devil wears prada, where they are talking about the industry and this guy puts on his sarcasmface and says
"Yes, that is what this multi billion dollar industry is all about. INNER beauty."

Jan 04 13 03:25 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:

bahaha :p

there's this scene in the devil wears prada, where they are talking about the industry and this guy puts on his sarcasmface and says
"Yes, that is what this multi billion dollar industry is all about. INNER beauty."

At least my inner beauty is a real woman. My inner beauty is goddamn voluptuous.

Jan 04 13 03:42 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


Damianne wrote:

At least my inner beauty is a real woman. My inner beauty is goddamn voluptuous.

I'm pretty sure I don't have an inner beauty, I just have an 82 year old sarcastic woman with verbal diarrhea.

Jan 04 13 05:14 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:

I'm pretty sure I don't have an inner beauty, I just have an 82 year old sarcastic woman with verbal diarrhea.

I'm a hedonistic Sicilian stress eater, my inner woman has curves. I'm currently eating stressmuffins I stresscooked. They're nummy. *nums*

Jan 04 13 05:26 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


Damianne wrote:

I'm a hedonistic Sicilian stress eater, my inner woman has curves. I'm currently eating stressmuffins I stresscooked. They're nummy. *nums*

they sound nummy! stressmuffins are the best! I'm eating tomatoes. stupid new year's resolutions...

Jan 04 13 05:36 am  Link  Quote 
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