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Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
It does prevent wasting time if a photographer is looking for llamas who shoot nudes.  I think there are more photographers on this site that shoot nudes than not, and those llamas that don't do nudes might be sensitive to that?  A llama who has a derogatory message on her/his profile directed towards those llamas and photographers that do shoot nudes ... for an extreme example "I find nudity distasteful and refuse to do such dirty garbage!"  Don't contact me for nudes ... I don't do porn!"   No one I know has posted those exact words, but there are some llamas with a prejudicial attitude towards llamas who do nudes. 

When it comes to attitudes, I do not enjoy working with any people who are racist, overtly judgemental towards others, or pushy (bossy) about everything having to be their way.  I call those types "Diva's" and not in a good way.  It is a fact that I do shoot nudes, and I also shoot with a diverse number of llamas of all shapes, ages, and ethnicities.  Each person is different, so I respect the individuals right to choose what they wish to do.  llamas do not have to do nudity!  It's the attitudes towards others that do I think these photographers are dealing with.  Just because you don't llama nude doesn't mean I wont shoot with you!  (and you know that!)

That is a good point and makes sense. I always try and make sure my posts and comments in my profile do not include any judgement on nudes. I simply say I do not do nudes. No need to imply that you think nudes are porn or skanky or etc. I have seen some of those profiles that say "I don't do skanky nudes" and can definitely understand the offence. I personally think there are a lot of llamas on here that do amazing nudes! I have personal reasons for not doing nudes, but I definitely support llamas doing nudes because it's really a work of art. I definitely don't understand people viewing it as porn, as I'm sure it the photographer and the llama don't view it that way. A lot of my family members are super conservative and like to say even women in bikini's are "slutty"...never understood it. No one was born with clothes on! smile

Feb 22 13 10:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 730
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
It does prevent wasting time if a photographer is looking for models who shoot nudes.  I think there are more photographers on this site that shoot nudes than not, and those models that don't do nudes might be sensitive to that?  A model who has a derogatory message on her/his profile directed towards those models and photographers that do shoot nudes ... for an extreme example "I find nudity distasteful and refuse to do such dirty garbage!"  Don't contact me for nudes ... I don't do porn!"   No one I know has posted those exact words, but there are some models with a prejudicial attitude towards models who do nudes. 

When it comes to attitudes, I do not enjoy working with any people who are racist, overtly judgemental towards others, or pushy (bossy) about everything having to be their way.  I call those types "Diva's" and not in a good way.  It is a fact that I do shoot nudes, and I also shoot with a diverse number of models of all shapes, ages, and ethnicities.  Each person is different, so I respect the individuals right to choose what they wish to do.  Models do not have to do nudity!  It's the attitudes towards others that do I think these photographers are dealing with.  Just because you don't model nude doesn't mean I wont shoot with you!  (and you know that!)
vbabe wrote:
That is a good point and makes sense. I always try and make sure my posts and comments in my profile do not include any judgement on nudes. I simply say I do not do nudes. No need to imply that you think nudes are porn or skanky or etc. I have seen some of those profiles that say "I don't do skanky nudes" and can definitely understand the offence. I personally think there are a lot of models on here that do amazing nudes! I have personal reasons for not doing nudes, but I definitely support models doing nudes because it's really a work of art. I definitely don't understand people viewing it as porn, as I'm sure it the photographer and the model don't view it that way. A lot of my family members are super conservative and like to say even women in bikini's are "slutty"...never understood it. No one was born with clothes on! smile

For some models the fact that a photographer has nudes in his portfolio is a red flag in and of itself. In fact, some of my model friends have told me that they generally avoid photographers with nudes in their portfolios.

That's just one reason why I have a separate portfolio for 18+ work.

On the other hand, I get more friend requests from models who don't shoot nudes than from models who do, so it's obviously not an absolute.

Feb 23 13 01:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Unlimited Boudoir
Posts: 27
San Diego, California, US


Bravo Magic Images wrote:
Here is my list of what i look for in red flags.

1. Miss spelled words on bio.

2. Cell self shot images on port.

3, More Ass Booty Tail images I car to look at.

4. Credits that indicate nothing worth reading about.

5. No experience but wants top dollar for pay.

8. Must have Escort friend grandma or bouncer at shoot.

9. Demands all RAW images on day of the shoot.

and LOL

10. Will not shoot with Fat over weight photographers

just a few red flags i dont bother with.

Feb 23 13 02:51 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Flirting.
Pushiness (for anything, including, but certainly not limited to, pushing well beyond what I've clearly stated I do).
Trying to guilt me into a trade shoot, when it wouldn't benefit me.
Trying to bribe me with money to do "more."
Dissing everyone's work but his own.
Overall, just being a pr*ck.
Feb 23 13 05:32 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Flex Photography wrote:

Eliza C wrote:
Here is my list of what i look for in red flags.

1. Miss spelled words on bio.

2. Cell self shot images on port.

3, More Ass Booty Tail images I car to look at.

4. Credits that indicate nothing worth reading about.

5. No expierance but wants top dollar for pay.

6. will not shoot nudes unless paid the allowed amount.

7.No TFP unless you pay them for gas make up artist and wardrope

8. Must have Escort friend grandma or bouncer at shoot.

9. Demands all RAW images on day of the shoot.

10. Will not shoot with Fat over weight photographers

just a few red flags i dont bother with.

Apparently lots of irony! big_smile

HEY!! I didn't write that I criticised it for the same reason!! Can you redo the quote marks please smile

Feb 23 13 06:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Radfish Photo
Posts: 66
Denver, Colorado, US


Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
Bad or distasteful images. Past work is not always correct in predicting future work, but if their images aren't something you could see yourself in then I would pass.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

^^^^^^^ This!

Feb 23 13 07:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


Barely StL wrote:

Patrick Walberg wrote:
It does prevent wasting time if a photographer is looking for models who shoot nudes.  I think there are more photographers on this site that shoot nudes than not, and those models that don't do nudes might be sensitive to that?  A model who has a derogatory message on her/his profile directed towards those models and photographers that do shoot nudes ... for an extreme example "I find nudity distasteful and refuse to do such dirty garbage!"  Don't contact me for nudes ... I don't do porn!"   No one I know has posted those exact words, but there are some models with a prejudicial attitude towards models who do nudes. 

When it comes to attitudes, I do not enjoy working with any people who are racist, overtly judgemental towards others, or pushy (bossy) about everything having to be their way.  I call those types "Diva's" and not in a good way.  It is a fact that I do shoot nudes, and I also shoot with a diverse number of models of all shapes, ages, and ethnicities.  Each person is different, so I respect the individuals right to choose what they wish to do.  Models do not have to do nudity!  It's the attitudes towards others that do I think these photographers are dealing with.  Just because you don't model nude doesn't mean I wont shoot with you!  (and you know that!)

For some models the fact that a photographer has nudes in his portfolio is a red flag in and of itself. In fact, some of my model friends have told me that they generally avoid photographers with nudes in their portfolios.

That's just one reason why I have a separate portfolio for 18+ work.

On the other hand, I get more friend requests from models who don't shoot nudes than from models who do, so it's obviously not an absolute.

This is a good point. I don't mind connecting with photographers with nudes in their port as long as it's not the only thing in their port. I'd be surprised if a photographer hadn't done nudes at some point in their career unless he/she is just starting out. Doesn't bother me one bit as long as they have a variety in their port that will give me something I can work with or an idea that we'd get the photos we'd want out of it (since I don't do nudes).

Feb 23 13 12:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,656
Salinas, California, US


vbabe wrote:
This is a good point. I don't mind connecting with photographers with nudes in their port as long as it's not the only thing in their port. I'd be surprised if a photographer hadn't done nudes at some point in their career unless he/she is just starting out. Doesn't bother me one bit as long as they have a variety in their port that will give me something I can work with or an idea that we'd get the photos we'd want out of it (since I don't do nudes).

Some photographers AND models have set up a separate account for nudes because they are so cautious as to family, friends, and even other models or photographers getting the wrong impression about their work.   Some of those models might even use an alias for their nude profiles on here.  They often have good reason to do so as they wish to avoid judgement from those other people.

I am into variety, as I don't like to be labeled into one category of photography.   The majority of my photography does not involve nudity, but I do have some in a folder which involves nudity that takes some effort to find on here.   As you know, I don't require models to do nudes, but I do consider the attitude of non-nude models towards those who do nudes to be important.  I'd like to shoot more nudes someday, so those with a very anti-nude, or derogatory opinion of others who do nudes might not be someone I'd want to work with.  It's the same reason I choose not to work with someone who I know is racist.   What we write in our profiles is important!

Feb 23 13 02:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 5,191
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


vbabe wrote:
What are the red flags you look for when browsing ports and people to work with? Lack of credits? Lack of shoots? What else?

...anyone who puts something stupid like this in their profile as they clearly do not understand what "TFP" means:

http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/JonathanRphoto/No-TFP-1-1.jpg

Feb 23 13 02:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,656
Salinas, California, US


Shot By Adam wrote:
...anyone who puts something stupid like this in their profile as they clearly do not understand what "TFP" means:

http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/JonathanRphoto/No-TFP-1-1.jpg

That's kinda loud!   What are you saying?


"No TFP!  Contact me for rates ... "

Oh yeah ... I pass those by too. 
(Unless it's someone I really want to hire.)


You didn't have to shout it!    wink

Feb 23 13 02:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


Omg that is crazy! I love TFP just as much as paid because I enjoy receiving my photos. That's one of my biggest reasons for modeling. I'm sure there are photographers that may give you a few images for personal use, but in paid shoots, pay is the agreement and they do not have to provide you photos.
Feb 23 13 09:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,656
Salinas, California, US


I know. .. the forums are frustrating to post in when things are so sticky!  tongue

Oh, and umm  .... back to the topic.
Feb 23 13 09:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
PigeonFoo
Posts: 284
Syracuse, New York, US


I really, really dislike when a photographer (or anything else, but I'm approached by more photographers than, say, wardrobe stylists) beats around the bush on what they want to shoot, or suddenly after discussing for a period of time bring up something they hadn't even mentioned before.

Example.
They're talking about shooting me and they'd like to shoot "whatever", and despite my best efforts they still can't give me any clear defining genres. (Glamour, nude, body paint. Just, something to give me an idea.) I've had photographers constantly just meet me with the vague "whatever" or "I shoot lots of things" answer despite my inquiries as to what they had in mind.

Or the worst case.
Day one, they ask me about shooting glamour and dates and times.
Speak for a few days about the glamour, lingerie sexy stuff, and they want to shoot trade.

Day five, suddenly slip in "nude" in the conversation. Whoa, whoa, whoa. We did not discuss, nor did I therefore agree to, anything nude. Furthermore - you gotta pay me. Then they get offended.

Or, oh lord, how about the photographer who wanted to shoot photosets and videos featuring my feet. Then after hashing out the details for a week or so... he gives me the names of two popular foot fetish models who's videos he wants to basically...um, what's the nice way of saying rip off? Homage? He urges I check them out, and find tons of videos of these girls rubbing male's genitals with their feet, and tons of face sitting while fully nude and the like.

When I brought this up in a text his literal reply was "Is that a problem?" Yes, I should say so. In over a week of discussing what you want to do, you never told me you want me to rub my foot on your dick. That right there was the BIGGEST red flag I have come across to date in this job.
Feb 23 13 10:06 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 9,502
Baltimore, Maryland, US


PigeonFoo wrote:
When I brought this up in a text his literal reply was "Is that a problem?" Yes, I should say so. In over a week of discussing what you want to do, you never told me you want me to rub my foot on your dick. That right there was the BIGGEST red flag I have come across to date in this job.

Thats pretty much a good reason to CAM and get him off the site.

Feb 24 13 03:24 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 9,502
Baltimore, Maryland, US


I love models who have 9 or more requirements listed on their port for a shoot. Nothing says Diva more clearly, or at least a lack of judgement in working with other photographers that caused the prerequisite list to grow. 

A favorite was when a model insisted on bringing escorts, yes the plural of escort, to a shoot. Normally I dont mind an escort, i often make them carry heavy things for me, but Im not into the whole hanging out with all of your friends on a shoot thing.
Feb 24 13 03:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Just A Perfumed Alibi
Posts: 47
Kansas City, Missouri, US


rp_photo wrote:

I consider photographer portfolios that suggest a fixation on a particular gender, race, physique, or body part to be a "yellow flag". To me it suggests they might have some fetish or obsession that could lead to complications.

All of my gallery displays include "repetition shots" of various body parts, or situations...its what I do, and its never lead to a "complication".

Feb 24 13 06:16 am  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


PigeonFoo wrote:
I really, really dislike when a photographer (or anything else, but I'm approached by more photographers than, say, wardrobe stylists) beats around the bush on what they want to shoot, or suddenly after discussing for a period of time bring up something they hadn't even mentioned before.

Example.
They're talking about shooting me and they'd like to shoot "whatever", and despite my best efforts they still can't give me any clear defining genres. (Glamour, nude, body paint. Just, something to give me an idea.) I've had photographers constantly just meet me with the vague "whatever" or "I shoot lots of things" answer despite my inquiries as to what they had in mind.

Or the worst case.
Day one, they ask me about shooting glamour and dates and times.
Speak for a few days about the glamour, lingerie sexy stuff, and they want to shoot trade.

Day five, suddenly slip in "nude" in the conversation. Whoa, whoa, whoa. We did not discuss, nor did I therefore agree to, anything nude. Furthermore - you gotta pay me. Then they get offended.

Or, oh lord, how about the photographer who wanted to shoot photosets and videos featuring my feet. Then after hashing out the details for a week or so... he gives me the names of two popular foot fetish models who's videos he wants to basically...um, what's the nice way of saying rip off? Homage? He urges I check them out, and find tons of videos of these girls rubbing male's genitals with their feet, and tons of face sitting while fully nude and the like.

When I brought this up in a text his literal reply was "Is that a problem?" Yes, I should say so. In over a week of discussing what you want to do, you never told me you want me to rub my foot on your dick. That right there was the BIGGEST red flag I have come across to date in this job.

I did one foot fetish video...it was stepping on bugs, weird, but nothing sexual and paid. Another time, more recently, I had been discussing a paid shoot with a photographer, sounded more like a lingerie, boudoir (sp?) type shoot...until later he said it was foot fetish and asked if I minded foot kissing. I politely declined.

Feb 24 13 11:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Conrad Turner
Posts: 33
New York, New York, US


vbabe wrote:
I got a request for a shoot recently and the photographer has 2 photos in the port. One is a photo of himself and another I cannot tell if it's a model or himself as the lighting is a bit dark. He joined earlier last year, no tags or anything. I am iffy on it if he's been on MM for almost a year and no photos of his work online since it states he's been doing photography for years. He wants to shoot a good concept, but with no samples of any of his work, I am iffy on it.

i just recently experienced similar. i placed a casting call where the first model to reply had a page that's been around since 08', had no friends, no tags, and only 3 photos in her port all appeared to be shot by the same photographer. as urgent as i was to fill this vacant spot, that was too many flags to follow a "first come, first serve" mentality i had at the time.

Feb 26 13 12:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
D-Fotograf
Posts: 54
Frankfurt, Hassia, Germany


Funny I have heard the same thing about, -" ...the greatest and most professional photographer?"

But here is the thing, - there just isn't one that is the greatest and/or most professional? Secondly, any professional will tell you, every one has to learn. Sure there are some who started never went to school and did the trail and error method or others like myself, spent an arm and leg on attending a predacious school and ended up changing professions.

But none of this has to do with the question that was posed. All I can say, if you are wanting to shoot with someone and want to see if they are all mouth and no fact, vet them.


Jackson frontier photos wrote:

The greatest and most professional photographer that ever lived once had a lack of experience.

Feb 26 13 12:37 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,433
Anchorage, Alaska, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:

I am good friends with some black male photographers here on this site.  They don't sound "black" on the phone and have told me about female models who are racist and say something upon meeting them and walk out!  I'm sure that racism still exists, and so does prejudice towards age, weight, and just not looking like the models "idea" of what a photographer should look like.  Shocking, isn't it!  And photographers are the ones supposed to be making the model look good, and therefore should have the most concern about physical appearance.   It's a strange World, huh?

Yes, totally freaking shocking. Wow...wow.

Feb 26 13 10:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,656
Salinas, California, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
I am good friends with some black male photographers here on this site.  They don't sound "black" on the phone and have told me about female models who are racist and say something upon meeting them and walk out!  I'm sure that racism still exists, and so does prejudice towards age, weight, and just not looking like the models "idea" of what a photographer should look like.  Shocking, isn't it!  And photographers are the ones supposed to be making the model look good, and therefore should have the most concern about physical appearance.   It's a strange World, huh?
MyrnaByrna wrote:
Yes, totally freaking shocking. Wow...wow.

I'm not shocked.  It's sad, but I am sure there are models in this very website that are racist. The odds are against me being wrong about that.  I have also witnessed prejudice first hand outside of the photography and model World.  Having a preshoot meeting can reduce the chances of an "incident" where a racist turns tail and runs.  I've heard of models AND photographers who wont shoot with other people for other such reasons ... as in lame excuses like "He's too old"  "I don't shoot with women photographers"  "I don't shoot with gays" and so on ... although I always try to find the beauty in this World, I am aware that ugliness exists.

Feb 27 13 01:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,656
Salinas, California, US


Robb Mann wrote:
I love models who have 9 or more requirements listed on their port for a shoot. Nothing says Diva more clearly, or at least a lack of judgement in working with other photographers that caused the prerequisite list to grow. 

A favorite was when a model insisted on bringing escorts, yes the plural of escort, to a shoot. Normally I dont mind an escort, i often make them carry heavy things for me, but Im not into the whole hanging out with all of your friends on a shoot thing.

Hopefully you do what I do ... shoot in a large area where fold up chairs can be set up and you and the model charge people for being there.  What we do as models and photographers is worth watching , and I plan on doing more shoots for spectators in the near future.  There are plenty of models that are like minded with me on this.  Split the proceeds with the model.   We can make bank!  wink

Feb 27 13 01:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,338
Tempe, Arizona, US


vbabe wrote:
Good points. His profile pic looks like it's his photo for his OkCupid profile. Even has the OkCupid label on the image. He has some great ideas, but I really need more samples of his work to continue.

Why?  Just because someone has a good imagination doesn't mean he can actually deliver.  Ask for a sampling or move on, or keep asking the same question(s).  It's on you now...

Kindest regards,
Edward

Feb 27 13 02:10 am  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:

I'm not shocked.  It's sad, but I am sure there are models in this very website that are racist. The odds are against me being wrong about that.  I have also witnessed prejudice first hand outside of the photography and model World.  Having a preshoot meeting can reduce the chances of an "incident" where a racist turns tail and runs.  I've heard of models AND photographers who wont shoot with other people for other such reasons ... as in lame excuses like "He's too old"  "I don't shoot with women photographers"  "I don't shoot with gays" and so on ... although I always try to find the beauty in this World, I am aware that ugliness exists.

Or those who refuse to shoot with "fat" photographers. I was speechless to hear that.

Feb 27 13 08:54 am  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


EdwardKristopher wrote:
Why?  Just because someone has a good imagination doesn't mean he can actually deliver.  Ask for a sampling or move on, or keep asking the same question(s).  It's on you now...

Kindest regards,
Edward

I already turned him down nicely last week. If he's claiming to have been doing photography for so long, he should definitely have more images and been more willing to provide them. And your port image should not be the same image you use on Okcupid. I was under the impression he's on MM more than just for photography, especially if he was randomly texting me when it was not shoot related. LOL!

Feb 27 13 08:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Antediluvian Design
Posts: 1,128
Scranton, Pennsylvania, US


Yikes, see you all in a few months. Maybe we can all learn a little trust.
Feb 27 13 10:44 pm  Link  Quote 
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