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Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Since last night, whenever I go to save or flatten an image in photoshop, it seems to be lightening the image by about 1/3 (or maybe even less than that) of a stop. Not a massive difference, but still noticeable and unwanted. Any idea what it could be? I'm using CS5.1
Nov 05 13 07:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wilde One
Posts: 2,351
Santa Monica, California, US


I had similar occurrences in CS6, where the flattened image was different from the layered image.

I re-installed Photoshop, which didn't help.

Then, one day, it silently went away, and now flattened and layered files look the same.

Photoshop has become so complex there seems to be something like "software ghosting" going on (just like ghosting in a lens with many elements). You probably can't write flawless software on that complexity level any more.

You can also trash your preferences.
Nov 05 13 11:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


So... there is no way to really fix it other than wait it out?
Nov 06 13 04:59 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Pictus
Posts: 961
Teresópolis, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil


When Photoshop weirdness starts, the first step is to RESET to the default settings.
Nov 06 13 05:14 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Ali Choudhry Photo wrote:
So... there is no way to really fix it other than wait it out?

This isn't exactly a fix, but you could re-think your practice of flattening psd files. Why do you do it?

Nov 06 13 06:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ACPhotography
Posts: 8,606
Plainview, New York, US


Peano wrote:

This isn't exactly a fix, but you could re-think your practice of flattening psd files. Why do you do it?

+1

I stopped using PSD a long time ago and went to tiff exclusively. I can compress tiff files much more which greatly reduces the file size when working with high MP cameras.

Nov 06 13 07:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wilde One
Posts: 2,351
Santa Monica, California, US


That defect the OP describes has nothing to do with the psd file format.

In my copy it showed up in TIFFs.

I just saw a flattened file I created over a year ago, and it was lighter than the layered file.

I copied the layered file, flattened it, and the flattened file was the same as the layered, and I threw the fake flat file out.

Until you find a fix, OP, you can use adjustment layers to bring the flattened file to the same brightness as the layered one.

And when you do a "stamp", a layer that incorporates all the layers in a flat file, you'll see the same effect and you can use that to steer your flat copy in a way to make it look like the layered.

You'll see, by the way, that at 100% view the layered and the flattened file look the same, but at other zoom ratios it won't until you can solve the problem.
Nov 07 13 01:45 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Peano wrote:
This isn't exactly a fix, but you could re-think your practice of flattening psd files. Why do you do it?
ACPhotography wrote:
+1

I stopped using PSD a long time ago and went to tiff exclusively. I can compress tiff files much more which greatly reduces the file size when working with high MP cameras.

I don't understand your +1. I wasn't questioning the use of psd format. I was questioning the practice of flattening the image.

Nov 07 13 06:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wolfy4u
Posts: 1,078
Grand Junction, Colorado, US


I'm a bit confused. obviously, files have to be one layer to be used outside ot PS. Are you saying that instead of flattening the file, to save it as jpg, pdf, or? and let the 'flattening' occur simply as a part of the save command?
Nov 07 13 06:26 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Wolfy4u wrote:
I'm a bit confused. obviously, files have to be one layer to be used outside ot PS. Are you saying that instead of flattening the file, to save it as jpg, pdf, or? and let the 'flattening' occur simply as a part of the save command?

Yes. Whether you use "Save as" or "Save for web," there's no need to flatten the file. I can't even recall the last time I flattened a psd file, because I always keep the layers intact for possible future use.

Nov 07 13 06:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeff Fiore
Posts: 9,175
Pelham, New York, US


Peano wrote:

Yes. Whether you use "Save as" or "Save for web," there's no need to flatten the file. I can't even recall the last time I flattened a psd file, because I always keep the layers intact for possible future use.

Yep.

I have found if you do flatten and image (I merge a couple of layers), you sometimes get a shift in brightness and contrast and sometimes color. it depends on your adjustment layers. I found that if you merge the adjustment layers first before merging on to an image layer, it doesn't affect the tonality or color. Basically, merge from the top layer down.

Peano is right, whenever I do a "save as" or a "save for web", I never run into that problem

Nov 07 13 06:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1472
Posts: 1,022
Pembroke Pines, Florida, US


Peano wrote:

Yes. Whether you use "Save as" or "Save for web," there's no need to flatten the file. I can't even recall the last time I flattened a psd file, because I always keep the layers intact for possible future use.

Isn't that what psd is for .. Or so I've been made to understand.  I save in psd then change to jpeg and flatten

Nov 07 13 06:44 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


1472 wrote:
I save in psd then change to jpeg and flatten

I'm not sure what you mean by "change to jpeg." You can "Save as" a jpeg, or you can "Save for web" as a jpeg. But that only prompts my earlier question: Why do you flatten the psd file?

Nov 07 13 07:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Peano wrote:

Yes. Whether you use "Save as" or "Save for web," there's no need to flatten the file. I can't even recall the last time I flattened a psd file, because I always keep the layers intact for possible future use.

I should have clarified. The lightening happens when I flatten files. It also happens when I don't flatten them manually but just save as jpegs... because to save as jpegs, photoshop needs to flatten the file anyway. So manually flattening the file (or not) isn't the issue here.

Nov 07 13 03:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Ali Choudhry Photo wrote:
I should have clarified. The lightening happens when I flatten files. It also happens when I don't flatten them manually but just save as jpegs... because to save as jpegs, photoshop needs to flatten the file anyway. So manually flattening the file (or not) isn't the issue here.

What happens if you stamp all the layers to the top of the stack? (Alt-Ctrl-Shift-E)

EDIT: Could you link to one of these psd files? You could downsize the dimensions to make the file smaller, just preserve all the layers.

Nov 07 13 03:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


The new stamped layer also gets lightened. This is doing my head in.
The best solution I've found is darkening the image slightly so that the final lightened image is where I want it... but because this is more guesswork than anything, not really the greatest solution.
Nov 15 13 05:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Ali Choudhry Photo wrote:
The new stamped layer also gets lightened. This is doing my head in.
The best solution I've found is darkening the image slightly so that the final lightened image is where I want it... but because this is more guesswork than anything, not really the greatest solution.

If you could link to one of the psd files that behaves this way, we could do a little test. If merging the layers doesn't change the brightness on someone else's machine, then you'd know the gremlin is in your machine. Or just send the file to someone you know and have them try it.

Nov 15 13 07:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


I can e-mail it to you if you'd like?
Nov 20 13 04:54 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Ali Choudhry Photo wrote:
I can e-mail it to you if you'd like?

A psd file with layers is too large for email. Upload it to Dropbox or some such free service and then you can post the link here for others to test.

Nov 20 13 06:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Ah right! Here is one that I am currently working on that is producing this error.

It is still a work in progress as I haven't yet added the highlights/shadows layers which I do by screening/multiplying a levels layer.

Despite this, it is producing the previously mentioned error.

NOTE: IMAGE IS NSFW

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9y105uru1pecnpk/ek6yNrZnjD
Nov 20 13 10:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Your Dropbox link leads to an empty folder.
Nov 21 13 07:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Seems to still be uploading for some reason. I will post back when it finishes.
Nov 21 13 02:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


It should work now.
Nov 21 13 06:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Digital Artist
Tulack13
Posts: 15
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


I see. You probably used High Pass for Frequency Separation. Am I right? Plus using 8bit image, which is adding to your problem. Plus your blur layer and High pass layer different in numbers. You can't do that.
Nov 21 13 07:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ali Choudhry Photo
Posts: 176
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


I did use high pass. I'm not really sure about the other things, I may have done them (still learning photoshop, so will have to look them up).

What should I do differently, specifically?
Nov 22 13 05:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,055
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


When I click on the (generic) icon in your Dropbox folder, I get a message that says "unable to preview this item."

I use High Pass with PS 5.1. I also use TIFF for my working files. (They're larger than PSD - but at some point in the future I may want to use something other than Photoshop.) I've never had this problem.

About the only time I flatten a working file is to save it as a JPEG. It takes less memory to save it (faster and less likely to have to restart my computer). After saving, the TIFF file closes with layers intact (no Save before closing), and the JPEG opens. No discernible difference.

Have you tried resetting Photoshop to the factory defaults?
Nov 22 13 05:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


This layer is, as W.C. Fields used to put it, the "Ubangi in the fuel supply." That's causing the brightening. Why it does that, and how you might fix it, I does not know. But I'm pretty sure it isn't a local Photoshop problem. You need to get that stranger out of the woodpile

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7892/5kx7.jpg
Nov 22 13 06:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Digital Artist
Tulack13
Posts: 15
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Ali Choudhry Photo wrote:
I did use high pass. I'm not really sure about the other things, I may have done them (still learning photoshop, so will have to look them up).

What should I do differently, specifically?

It seems to me that you used high pass to separate color from texture. You used it in a very strange way, but I assume that what you did. Because I see blur layer and High pass above it.  If you doing frequency separation, numbers on your blur layer and high pass layer should be the same. Hight pass will give you 1 tone calculation mistake. In 8 bit it would be visible even more. Use apply image instead. PM me, and I will give you an action if you don't now how. And I want to know why you masked blurred layer?

This is where high pass and 8 bit give you calculation error.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q75/s720x720/1480743_10153499528560153_1830416327_n.jpg

Nov 22 13 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
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