T Brown wrote:
Wouldn't a well formatted email work?

Keep a master on the computer and then copy and paste into an email?

update as needed

Let's say I have an email with all the data that I send to my professor--no problem.
However if I want to share with a model in the shoot I do NOT want to release all the phone numbers of all the other models, togs, hair, MUA, props, location, mentor, backup and contingency plans, both for privacy and TMI purposes.
For example, I would disclose to a mentor who my maybes and alternates are but I wouldn't want to share that with the cast and crew because that might look like I'm jumping the gun and they might contact the one on the fence and they might say that I am considering but haven't confirmed, why am I listed?

The data is so imbedded that it's not merely a two-part document where one can cut and paste.

Then it's dynamic and fluid. In one phone call I could have multiple changes.

I thought about NOT sharing and that doesn't work either because then the models are prepared for the shoot, don't know what we're planning, don't know the flow, don't know what to bring, etc. so planning and communication are crucial to the success of my complex shoots!

Managing all the details appropriately is a trick!

Now that you know my m.o. a bit more--any other suggestions?
[I have not reviewed thoroughly the previous post].

FFantastique wrote:
Let's say I have an email with all the data that I send to my professor--no problem.
However if I want to share with a model in the shoot I do NOT want to release all the phone numbers of all the other models, togs, hair, MUA, props, location, mentor, backup and contingency plans, both for privacy and TMI purposes.
For example, I would disclose to a mentor who my maybes and alternates are but I wouldn't want to share that with the cast and crew because that might look like I'm jumping the gun and they might contact the one on the fence and they might say that I am considering but haven't confirmed, why am I listed?

The data is so imbedded that it's not merely a two-part document where one can cut and paste.

Then it's dynamic and fluid. In one phone call I could have multiple changes.

I thought about NOT sharing and that doesn't work either because then the models are prepared for the shoot, don't know what we're planning, don't know the flow, don't know what to bring, etc. so planning and communication are crucial to the success of my complex shoots!

Managing all the details appropriately is a trick!

Now that you know my m.o. a bit more--any other suggestions?
[I have not reviewed thoroughly the previous post].

I thought thats what BCC did in an email blind carbon copy?

Create a mailing list, or groups and just insert your pdf, and send BCC

You could use open office to format your notes, ideas, and export directly out to a pdf.

T Brown wrote:

I thought thats what BBC did in an email blind carbon copy?

Let's say my document says something like:

Model A--cell phone number
Model B--MM number, cell phone number.

Undecided model C--MM number only.

I want to share this with mentor--no problem.
But if I BCC Model A and Model B then they'll know I am considering Model C.
While in the theoretical sense this shouldn't be a problem, I've been doing this long enough to KNOW, that I need to not be totally transparent! I have gotten into huge trouble by being too candid, open and honest. And frankly, even mentors say TMI. So I need to meter the message out at different dosages and rates to different people. So BCC won't solve my problem.

BTW I try to keep all email in MM, so that's not an option.

FFantastique wrote:

Let's say my document says something like:

Model A--cell phone number
Model B--MM number, cell phone number.

Undecided model C--MM number only.

I want to share this with mentor--no problem.
But if I BCC Model A and Model B then they'll know I am considering Model C.
While in the theoretical sense this shouldn't be a problem, I've been doing this long enough to KNOW, that I need to not be totally transparent! I have gotten into huge trouble by being too candid, open and honest. And frankly, even mentors say TMI. So I need to meter the message out at different dosages and rates to different people. So BCC won't solve my problem.

BTW I try to keep all email in MM, so that's not an option.

How would they know? they wouldn't see the other recipient?

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
Really? Can people not do anything without an iphone telling them how to do it?

So.. in other words.. you either don't understand what he's asking for (as with the other respondent) or you don't know.

His question has nothing to do with an iphone telling him *how* to do anything.  he just happens to want to use his phone as a tool in this exercise.


To the OP..

I don't think that there's any one tool that exists today that will do what you want.

If I understand correctly you want to have all of your data in some sort of master database and give certain fields and even whole records access restrictions so that only certain people will be able to see certain things.

Am I understanding correctly?

This seems like not a *terribly* difficult thing to build.. but it does sound like something that will have to be built (ie. custom).  You're probably best off with a web page with logins for each person and each person will be given certain levels of access.  It's certainly not trivial, though.  A web page has the advantage of being accessible from any device but then you'll have to pay for/maintain a server somewhere.  A stand-alone app of some sort would be handy since you have everything available offline but then you have the added complication of syncing between devices.

moonphotokitteh wrote:
I also use Evernote sharing option for all possible participant

Same here. With Evernote you can create text, picture, pdf, wav, and other media "notes" and then tag them so they all appear under one entry that can be shared with others. Evernote synchronizes with Windows, IOS, OS X, Android, Windows Phone, and is available as a web site.

They also have plug-ins/extensions for every major browser that make screen snapshots, picture saves, page saves very easy. I have thousands of picture ideas both as pictures and text. I go through them before a shoot and tag them to a particular shoot. Then I show the pictures to the model during the shoot using my iPad, or phone or on a computer screen.

You can obviously take pictures from within Evernote if your device has a camera and they go in as a note. I use that to take pictures from the TV screen if I see something that I may use as a picture idea.

In the past I used a blog or bulletin board type software that was provided by my hosting people to share information and discuss ideas with shoot participants. Not that I could get many people interested in the discussions. Actually I still do it on occasion:

http://www.gregorygarecki.com/projects

T Brown wrote:

How would they know? they wouldn't see the other recipient?

But it's in the body of the text!

What I want to do is be able to have a website where I can SECURELY post the information and then grant my professors FULL access and models LIMITED access.  Ideally something within MM would be great! But I don't think any such thing really exists far less for free.

FFantastique wrote:
But it's in the body of the text!

What I want to do is be able to have a website where I can SECURELY post the information and then grant my professors FULL access and models LIMITED access.  Ideally something within MM would be great! But I don't think any such thing really exists far less for free.

so...don't put their name in the body of the text make it generalized, lol.


"facepalm"

T Brown wrote:
ok well I guess I'm not going to be able to help you then, best of luck and let us know what you figure out..

If you're trying to keep all your email in MM then that's going to be a problem I think because then you're going to have to manually copy and paste each time to each recipient through your web browser.

Thats a question for the MODs

You may end up having to use a DB to actually build a database of people and then create records for specific data.

That is a lot of work up front and if it keeps changing a lot of maintenance.

Concur--too much overhead and then the tool starts to get in the way of the task. I'm looking for something lightweight, fast and efficient--something you can update at a traffic light based on the call while driving and then post so everyone can see the latest plan but not send it so that people don't get bombarded with so many changes.

Yes, I know--I may have started with talking about e-mails [while in a post I can't review my original post and I don't recall what I wrote initially] but now I'm talking about website.

Some people want to be updated immediately and some people only want occasional updates and rather than over informing some and under informing others, ideally a website with different levels of access would be even more idealer [sic] than various versions of emails! [sic].

That way it shifts some of the burden onto the participant to check the site for updates WHEN they WANT to and they can see the latest shoot plan and process.

To beg the question of why do I need such a complex planning process, let me give you an example, I was attempting to do a location shoot that involved literal moving parts--it involved what government considers to be critical infrastructure. Models who were afraid of heights or who could not swim were asked explicitly not to participate. Water craft was solicited to provide shooting angles and as back up rescue. Multiple shoots other shoots have had people on alert to preclude drowning. Compound this with having real weapons on set with machinery at height and the potential for something going haywire is not inconsequential.

Is all this hyper planning necessary or overkill? define "necessary."

A few years ago I spoke with a photographer who lost a life due to a shoot. [I'm intentionally vague to protect the privacy of all parties.] It was heart wrenching. I do not EVER want to have a story like that to tell. So while I want daring and dangerous shots, I'm VERY careful in their acquisition.

Do models need to know the safety precautions in place? Yes. I don't want any after-action review to reveal that we had a mishap due to a lack of communication. Hence the strong desire to disclose the plan as it develops so that participants can weigh in and ask probing questions, etc.

Shoots are usually intentionally new and different so it's not cookie cutter and it's not like I can work out all the bugs once and use the same m.o. repeatedly.

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
Really? Can people not do anything without an iPhone telling them how to do it?

No! ;-)

Wye wrote:

So.. in other words.. you either don't understand what he's asking for (as with the other respondent) or you don't know.

His question has nothing to do with an iphone telling him *how* to do anything.  he just happens to want to use his phone as a tool in this exercise.


To the OP..

I don't think that there's any one tool that exists today that will do what you want.

If I understand correctly you want to have all of your data in some sort of master database and give certain fields and even whole records access restrictions so that only certain people will be able to see certain things.

Am I understanding correctly?

This seems like not a *terribly* difficult thing to build.. but it does sound like something that will have to be built (ie. custom).  You're probably best off with a web page with logins for each person and each person will be given certain levels of access.  It's certainly not trivial, though.  A web page has the advantage of being accessible from any device but then you'll have to pay for/maintain a server somewhere.  A stand-alone app of some sort would be handy since you have everything available offline but then you have the added complication of syncing between devices.

U b right on the money! I feel like I've been heard and understood! KUDOS.
It's not a trivial task and I do NOT want to layer on building a website with designing a shoot!
I can't be the only person with this problem! LOL.

Evan Hiltunen wrote:
The OP states that his enemy (nemesis) is attempting to plan a shoot. The OP puts the word "complex" in quotation marks drawing attention to the OP's opinion that the shoot-planning really isn't complex at all.

So, the real question is: why is the OP trying to work out the shoot logistics for a simple shoot planned by his enemy?

Yes, I know all of the meanings behind "nemesis" and I'm well aware that his usage, in this case, is imprecise.

Apologies. Putting the adjective in quotes was misleading. It may be simple for you folks but it's complex to me.

Let me give you scenario of a shoot where I want to figure out some of the following details:
* unknown number of people on set but estimate 2 dozen,
* F&B
* firearms
* fire system
* heights
* load bearing strengths of various components--how many models can you place on certain devices before it's likely to collapse, what are the models weights, which models will show up, what are their heights, skin color,
* schedule, hours of operation,
* bathrooms,
* staging area,
* shoot priority
* hair
* MUA--who, throughput, sequencing
* wardrobe
* privacy
* releases
* 2257
* protocols,
* crossfire,
* escorts,
* property release.
* what is EACH persons' objective function and how can we optimize everyone of the dozen on set within the existing constraints and create awesome images and have fun!?
* are there any dietary restrictions?
* is anyone "allergic" to anyone else--are there any adverse interactions?
* are there any shooting restrictions?
* how to deal with LEOs.
This is in addition to the regular shoot list, lights, directions to venue, etc.

So, is this complex or "complex"?

Peter House wrote:
Evernote is recommended by many.

I prefer a physical white board for planning.

Heard of it and even downloaded and set up username and password but haven't used it :-(.

How secure is Evernote?

How shareable is it?

A white board in my car (where I do a lot of my thinking, planning and plotting) would be downright unweildy! :-)

T Brown wrote:

so...don't put their name in the body of the text make it generalized, lol.


"facepalm"

I don't think I've managed to clearly communicate the complexity of the shoots I'm trying to undertake.

For example, one shoot I'm attempting to do involves a lot of legal work that I want the profs to see that I've done my homework and that I want the AD [Assistant Director] to have to explain to LEOs [Law Enforcement Officers] if they show up, but I don't want all the models to be privy to that portion of the planning because it's TMI [Too Much Information] [If I have to spell everything out, what's the point of abbreviating?!].

How can I let some see only the various tips of the iceberg, so to speak, yet concurrently let others see the entire picture and to do so without denormalizing? [geek speak LOL. Sorry, I can't help myself.]

FFantastique wrote:
I don't think I've managed to clearly communicate the complexity of the shoots I'm trying to undertake.

Is complexity part of your aesthetic, or just a consequence?

moonphotokitteh wrote:
Sounds very complicated to me...

Maybe this wil be helpful to you
https://fstoppers.com/other/how-success … shoot-2671

(concept board pdf link inside)

I also use Evernote sharing option for all possible participant

THANK YOU! Just watched both videos, read the text and also read the PDF.

Nice.

I do many of those things--hours of preshoot meetings with location, equipment, etc. and I want to be able to document my findings from those preshoot meetings at a level appropriate for myself and my mentor, which is on a different level from a what a model wants.

For example: shooting with a jet at an airport involves multiple jurisdictions, multiple clearances, LOL. I think it took me about 18 months at one airport. I would want my prof/mentor to know all the details but I wouldn't want to share the personnel and their phone numbers I called to gain access to every model that I invited to that shoot.

So what I'm doing is not just a visual palette, shoot list and concept--but I want to document the nitty gritty that *I* need to make a shoot work. Phone numbers, mailing addresses, e-mails, confidential preferences, planning, models I considered but canned, etc. but I do NOT want to share with every model.

I want light weight, dynamic, not denormalized document control.

I should seriously try Evernote.

Monad Studios wrote:

Is complexity part of your aesthetic, or just a consequence?

VERY excellent question. IDK for sure but I suspect that it's both.
I want to do complex for complexity sake. Sort of like the engraving on money is intentionally very detailed to reduce the possibility of counterfeiting.
Anybody can do easy, so I intentionally pick hard!

RINALDI wrote:
You can create a pdf with textfields, dropdown menus, etc. After which you only need to fill in the pdf and save/print it.

Not so simple for me.
I want to be two faced--I want to report to profs all the excruciating details so I can get maximum points, HOWEVER, for the model who doesn't care and has no need to know, I want to withhold a lot of info extraneous to that role.

For example for one event I contacted ATC [Air Traffic Control] to request that for a certain time period on a certain day they divert traffic to different runway so that it wouldn't interfere with the event.

It's like PowerPoint slides where you have presenters notes that the audience doesn't see.

FFantastique wrote:
Anybody can do easy, so I intentionally pick hard!

How... What... Well, that's a thing.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:

How... What... Well, that's a thing.

It's Kennedyesque--We choose to do this not because it's easy but because it's hard!

How? by adding levels of redundancy or complexity not required. For example if I do a Lady Godiva shoot I will want TWO models on the horse even though the story line requires only 1. This is intentionally variation on the established legend.

Not just any two, but two who are both accomplished equestrienne, then who are within 5 lbs of weight, 1" of height and similar size and build.

With the horse itself, it has to be regal in bearing, markings, color and covering.

Then we have to have a Peeping Tom.

It has to be shot in a period setting, that is private...and pro bono.

AND all of this has to be duplicated in close proximity in case any component piece fails, we have a backup location, steed, models, MUA, etc. that we can roll over too. Then how do you make good use of the excess capacity if it does show up and is on standby? What is the plan B to assign them to so they're properly utilized and not wasting their precious time yet not interfering with the A team? Are you starting to see how the shoot readily grows in complexity?

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
This is too much for me I'm leaving bye

Adios!

T Brown wrote:
Man I really tried to help giving you my best ideas, but seriously I think you're waaay over thinking this....

You're going to spend more time updating your lists, contacts, and planning to ever get any shooting in..

Air traffic control??? really...wow...ok, have fun with that

Best of luck man, but by all means let us know how it goes... 

Yes, I concur to a degree. But when I back off the thinking, I find that I miss something, or kick myself.

I had one dawn till dusk shoot. Very long story short, model drove about 1.25 hours to the shoot, did make up, but when it was her time to shoot--she was no where to be found. She finally answered the phone and I asked what had happened. She said I was not organized. [My mentor said, "You're so organized, it's frightening."] Whatever the facts of the case, I APPEARED not to be organized and that's all that mattered to her. So she drove 2.5 hours, did make up and got no images...and no pay. Is that fair to her? Why should she have to pay for my "disorganization"?  So not only do I have to be organized, I have to appear to be organized! LOL  It pains me to this day. Time is the stuff the life is made of. To ask someone to volunteer their time and then waste it is unconscionable!

My strategy is to treat people's time as if I were paying top dollar. It's a good practice so that when/if I ever do, I will have already optimized most of my techniques.

Another aspect of sharing with models what goes on behind the scenes is so that they understand that the tog and team have invested a considerable effort in making the shoot feasible. One shoot took me about 7 years to get the access. Several projects are multi-year projects. One I have conceptualized is intergenerational.

I know--overthinking. However, when you examine the collective work on MM--it's absolutely incredible! [I'd put that in caps, but I don't want to shout!]  To do something new and different, I have to think outside the box so that future anthropologist MIGHT find something noteworthy! LOL.

Yes, really. ATC. The event involved sound so aircraft on approach was not desirable and not something I know how to "PhotoShop" out ;-).

We also had bolt cutters on the checklist in case we needed to force access for crew to set up for the shoot so that we could stay on schedule (didn't need them). We had alternative venue for inclement weather--which we needed.

We didn't have a good plan for power failure. We had some equipment on batteries but it would have really cramped our style if AC power was interrupted for long. We may have considered a generator but opted not to retain such on standby due to the expense but as I recall, we disclosed this so that the main cast knew that we had considered all reasonable contingencies and what our response would be.

Overthink and overengineer are things I intentionally do not only for their intrinsic value but for style points! ;-)

And no, I don't get much shooting done but I can be selective what/who I shoot and how!

Evan Hiltunen wrote:
Because of your OCD regarding details and sharing of information, and that you seem to be achieving paralysis through analysis, the ONLY reasonable solution is for you to hire someone that can set up a structure that meets your needs and that person needs to, also, do updates and manage permissions.

That is the simplest, most effective, solution to your problem.

You spend so much time creating a mountain from a mole hill, you don't have the focus to climb it.

And why should you have to climb it? You can choose whether it is a mountain or a mole hill.

I typed a long explanatory message and then MM lost it. :-(.

I'm not going to do it again. But the summary is that attempts to hire and retain good help hasn't worked either.

And I've experimented with both modus operandii: mountain and molehill.

Still looking.

T Brown wrote:
Man I really tried to help giving you my best ideas, but seriously I think you're waaay over thinking this....

You're going to spend more time updating your lists, contacts, and planning to ever get any shooting in..

Air traffic control??? really...wow...ok, have fun with that

Best of luck man, but by all means let us know how it goes... 

Update as you requested.
Planning another shoot.
At least one participant (who has a CPA, and they are NOT easy to obtain) is expressing confusion because there are too many texts, models, MUAs, hair, etc.

So I searched the forums searching for a solution and I'm back to finding my own perennial problem.

So we have currently have about 4-6 models from one source, about 4 from another, about 2 from a third source. So may be a dozen in total. So far it's a group and not a team.
We don't know who is REALLY coming, yet we have to attempt to schedule a sequence so they can get through hair and makeup before shoot.
Then we have to work on associated concepts for each.
We don't have all the names, numbers, looks, etc.
Sure we could wait till they arrive on the day and have real model mayhem! LOL But that's not my style. 
I like to be reasonably well prepped so that we minimize wasted time on set and we all have realistic expectations.

One of my major goals is to avoid wasting people's time with people complaining that they're not getting adequate camera time, etc. If that's the case, I like to let them know BEFORE they get to the shoot that you'll probably have only 20 minutes (or whatever), even though you've driven 2 hours (or whatever). If you still want to come, I'm delighted to have you but it may not be worth it to you. This ability to provide appropriate disclosures based on the planning done reduces cognitive dissonance.

So yes, I do a fair amount of analysis--but it's not to the point of paralysis, like was previously suggested.

Evernote--suggested more than once, I don't see how it gives me the control I seek.
Database--don't want to invest that much into a database--I'm looking for something relatively flat.