Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Is that to suggest that most critques are dishonest?
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
It's as opposed to the flattery that goes on in photo comments.
Photographer
Jim Duvall
Posts: 172
Seattle, Washington, US
I think it is a way to signal that you will not be offended if someone points out a flaw in your work or a way in which it could be approved. After reading a lot of the comments I see some people flattering some really average shots in hopes that they may work with the person some day.
Photographer
Dee
Posts: 3004
Toledo, Ohio, US
Because they dont want to say what they really want..Here is what they really mean...
"please come stroke my ego..I cant tell by looking at my images that I suck so you come tell me if I do or not...but you better not say that I do..and if you do critique honestly, I am going to say you have no fricking clue what you are talking about anyways!!"
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Dee wrote:
Because they dont want to say what they really want..Here is what they really mean...
"please come stroke my ego..I cant tell by looking at my images that I suck so you come tell me if I do or not...but you better not say that I do..and if you do critique honestly, I am going to say you have no fricking clue what you are talking about anyways!!" Ahhh that makes sense.
I figured they were just asking us not to stroke their egos and to instead hit them right between the eyes. But then, if someone knows they are bad, why ask for criticism in the first place? Unless they think they are good and they are just acting humble by asking for honesty. Unless they are not sure and they really want nothing more than to be stroked.
Ya see, it is way to confusing for a simple midwestern boy like me!
Photographer
Dee
Posts: 3004
Toledo, Ohio, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Ahhh that makes sense.
I figured they were just asking us not to stroke their egos and to instead hit them right between the eyes. But then, if someone knows they are bad, why ask for criticism in the first place? Unless they think they are good and they are just acting humble by asking for honesty. Unless they are not sure and they really want nothing more than to be stroked.
Ya see, it is way to confusing for a simple midwestern boy like me! LOL yeah you got it!! ROFL...
Photographer
Ken Norcross
Posts: 423
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Most critiques are simply the opinions of what each individual finds interesting or attractive- even a strictly technical criticism can be construed as subjective.
So, if anyone wants to 'honestly critique' my photos - feel free; I'm always curious as to how other people view my work.
Makeup Artist
ROSHAR
Posts: 3791
Los Angeles, California, US
I can understand though if you have produced something
and something about it just isnt right- but the Artist/Model/Photographer wants to know some feedback on how to correct it for next time.
So many times Ive needed feedback on what images to use in my portfolio and what to dump.
Now what I dont understand is when the image is absolute blatant(sp?) CRAP and someone wants you to critiqe something that could be taken off of a webcam.
Did I somewhat contradict myself?
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13408
Nashville, Tennessee, US
I guess it means......do not sugarcoat.
Model
Diane ly
Posts: 1068
Manhattan, Illinois, US
So they can get their ego stroked even tho they shouldn't have a bigger head than they already do........they love to live in a fantasy world thinking that they are something that they are not. Just my HONEST opinion! LOL..... 
Model
Jay Dezelic
Posts: 5029
Seattle, Washington, US
This thread seems to be kind of a newbie bash. I think there are a lot of models/ stylists/ and photogs on this site that honestly do not know how to evaluate their own work. Sometimes it's really hard to be introspective. Especially when you don't know much about the business. I don't think it is so much ego stroking that people are looking for, rather I think a lot of people are looking for validation. Because there are so many here that do not make a living at this business, they are often in a quandary as to how much effort they can justify to put into it. - And to try and gauge what they can potentially get out of it if they work hard enough. There are a lot of experts here too that have the ability to give us newbies a barometer whereby to make our decisions.
I very much appreciate critiques (good or bad). And if all you like to comment on is the good stuff, then that's fine too. At least I can find out what I am doing right
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Jay Dezelic wrote:
This thread seems to be kind of a newbie bash. Nah Jay, I think you are being hyper-sensitive here. Asking for an honest critique is an oxymoron sort of like saying "Jumbo Shrimp," give me a big-little.
It is a bit of a chuckle. I would presume that all critiques are should be honest.
Bashing is to criticize one for geing new or for being critical because they want to learn. Have we degenerated so much that we can't laugh at ourselves a little bit?
I don't think so. The point of this post was just to muse about the need to ask people to be honest. It is humorous. It isn't a swipe at anyone. Lighten up.
When the day comes that I can't chuckle at myself is the day that I shouldn't be on the forums. If you are concerned about bashing, look to the mean spirited, not the light spirited.
Oh well. Jay, you just surprised me.
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
i don't. Lie to me baby! Honest critiques are for looooosers!
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
...Stacy wrote:
i don't. Lie to me baby! Honest critiques are for looooosers! OK, I have never seen an ex-naval nuclear engineer with better photos or look than you. OK, but then you are the only ex-naval nuclear engineer that I have ever met but it it was a totally honest critique.
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
that was mean.... 
Photographer
Ken Norcross
Posts: 423
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Jay Dezelic wrote:
This thread seems to be kind of a newbie bash. Well, I'm a newbie, so anyone- please bash away!
Jay Dezelic wrote:
I think there are a lot of models/ stylists/ and photogs on this site that honestly do not know how to evaluate their own work. I have to agree with that statement - when it comes to evaluating my own work, I'm the worlds harshest critic. I personally make no pretenses about being an "artist"; I'm first in line when it comes to finding flaws/imperfections in my photos:
"Boy, I really f**ked up the (pick one:)
exposure
composition
DOF
subject matter
any or all of the above
on that one!"
And I do appreciate other people pointing out what they don't like or think is right - after all, it's how I learn!
Model
Jay Dezelic
Posts: 5029
Seattle, Washington, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Nah Jay, I think you are being hyper-sensitive here. Asking for an honest critique is an oxymoron sort of like saying "Jumbo Shrimp," give me a big-little.
It is a bit of a chuckle. I would presume that all critiques are should be honest.
Bashing is to criticize one for geing new or for being critical because they want to learn. Have we degenerated so much that we can't laugh at ourselves a little bit?
I don't think so. The point of this post was just to muse about the need to ask people to be honest. It is humorous. It isn't a swipe at anyone. Lighten up.
When the day comes that I can't chuckle at myself is the day that I shouldn't be on the forums. If you are concerned about bashing, look to the mean spirited, not the light spirited.
Oh well. Jay, you just surprised me. I don't mean to sound overly sensitive about anything, I'm not. Everybody's got opinions. And they are all valid in a specific context. I think that there is basically to levels of critiquing. 1.) Tell me what's GOOD, and 2.) Tell me what's both GOOD and BAD. - Some people don't want to hear the bad, others do. (If I were sensitive, I would not want to hear the bad).
I just thought that there could be a valid interpretation of the term "Honest Critique" to mean "tell me what's both GOOD and BAD" vs. "just tell me what you like". Both kinds of critiques are useful.
Even though you posted the tread in jest, I think it was a good topic to broach since people are not always clear on what they want in terms of comments.
Model
Barbray
Posts: 885
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Is that to suggest that most critques are dishonest? You think?
Sheeeeeeesh...perish the thought Alan!
Photographer
Jack D Trute
Posts: 4558
New York, New York, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Is that to suggest that most critques are dishonest? Why?
Are you clueless?
Even the ignorant can figure out that there is some value attached to giving a critique.
Give an honest critique and you are seen as mean, rude or worse.
I could critique this question further but then people would think Jack was rude. We DO NOT want that now do we?
People asking for an honest critique is the same as someone asking for reality in Japan.
The Truth is rarely written or spoken there.
The Japanese take the thought of retaining face to the extreme. One can never tell another what you really feel but hide behind words.
As one westerner mentioned of the practice. If the japanese ever said what they really felt then they would kill each other.
This is also a practice in the western world though to a lesser extent. But to understand the way the eastern cultures retain face but in some ways never speak the truth is to understand ourselves and the way that we communicate. Especially when we have something to sell to the one speaking. In the American version, put it this way.
I want to sell my services to the group of model A or B. Model asks for critique.
If I give honest critique telling model B that she should just get a college education then I am slamming her and get no business.
Is it the Truth? Yes. But not what anyone wants to here.
Photographer? Much the same. Do you want your competitors or those above you to tell you that you are not good enough? NO.
I respect the Trute above all else but sometimes the truth must be put in diplomatic terms.
I suck as diplomacy.
Photographer
John Paul
Posts: 937
Schenectady, New York, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Is that to suggest that most critques are dishonest? Good question..
I like to give honest critiques, but no one ever wants to hear them.. I get yelled at for not saying that the image in question isn't a perfect 10!
I make critical points, and offer up possible ideas to make the photo situation look better (IMO) next time they are shooting that type of thing.......but then someone looks at my portfolio, and points out something about a picture that isn't 100% perfect even though I've never ever stated that "my work is better than your work" in the critique, or even inferred that..
So,...I might be more inclined to giving a rather "dishonest" critique/ a much
"softer" critique on a public message board, where egos aren't bruised in the open.. However, people contact me every week or so to ask me for my thoughts on some image that they took,...perhaps because they know I'll tell them what I really think..
Good topic!
JP
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