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Too Good Too Be True....
I'm not upset, I'm just sticking my feather in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. I have a sponsor that has reserved a great location for me to do a photo shoot at, all I have to do is use it. The space is pretty large so I called on a buddy of mine to shoot with me. Not shoot with me, but shoot in the location with me. The place is big enough to allow two shooters to conduct seperate shoots without being on top of each other. I'm like cool, we'll get about 6 or 8 girls and shoot till our heads pop off! I'm thinking the location is great, what will make it better for us and the models, how about a professional MUA! Lets do this!!! Book the MUA on a per model basis rather than a day rate, with a guarantee for "X" amount of dollars and let her know what to expect, she's cool with it and she says she can handle the load. We start contacting models that have been contacting us about shooting. We tell them that all they have to pay for is makeup which will be no more than $75 per girl. I'm fumblefuckdazzled when you present an offer, (2 photographers of decent talent and a seriously hot location with so many different set options it's sickening) and tell them all they have to do is pay to get makeup done, it's a problem. I had to tell one girl that she'd be hard pressed to shoot with me by myself for less than $150 for even just a test, and that's without makeup. We've basically extended at free photo shoot with the urgency for them to use our MUA, who by the way, does a fabulous job with professional grade makeup. What more can a model / aspiring model as for? What will happen is AFTER the shoot, when images start pop'n up from the models that decided $75 wouldn't keep thier kids from going to college, start posting images, those who didn't opt to pay for makeup, (didn't get booked for the shoot) will wish they could turn back time. I've had this happen more than once to me while I was sitting alone shooting the shit with other photographers at "group type shoots" models simply pass you by like you don't exist, then a week later after images start popping up, email boxes start filling up, like.. I didn't know you were there.. HUH? You didn't see my T-Shirt, oh you thought I was just an EMG Fan? 2 Photographers + Professional Make Up Artist + Super Serious Set = $75 too good to be true? Anyone else make offers like this that get snubbed by models that think "everything" is supposed to be free? Get Familiar Jan 20 06 09:47 am Link EMG STUDIOS wrote: It's economics 101, man. Supply & Demand. Every model on this board is probably bombarded by hundreds of emails offering TFP/CD from qualified and less qualified photographers. A smart model, who's keen on making it in this very hard industry, would review the photographers' work, have a vision in her mind on how that photographer would be able to advance her career, and when she finds the right one/s would not let $$ stand between her and her success. A less serious model would opt for those photographers that leave nearby (no expenses), have a MUA doing TFP/CD (no expenses) and would give her 3-4 medium quality prints/files she can use. The first would probably move faster up the food chain, the latter would remain in mediocrity. Jan 21 06 07:18 am Link Darrick, I got the same thing this past week. I told the model that she is responsible for hair, makeup, and wardrobe, for what is essentially a TFCD shoot. She said the other phographers she worked with had provided her with MUA and wardrobe. that's crazy. I told her straight up, you want a MUA, you have to pay. $50-$75 is not a bad price for professional work. Some models need to understand, the more effort they put into the shoot, the more they get out of it. i can see if it was a paid shoot (model paying the photographer) and I provided a MUA as part of the package. Jan 21 06 09:42 am Link In your situation.....you SHOULD have had MUA work for free as well. BE CONSISTANT. Either EVERYONE works for free OR You have the models flat out hire you for a substantial fee and do everything high end. Jan 21 06 09:50 am Link I agree. If the photographer and model are not getting paid, then neither should the MUA. I've been contacted by a MUA who is good but wants a $35/look fee for TFP shoots. I said "no thanks". Jan 21 06 09:59 am Link Michael Barian wrote: Why?? From the way I read his post, the girls contacted him, not the other way around.. Perhaps under normal circumstances it would have cost them hundreds to shoot with him, rather then $75 dollars for an MUA.. Jan 21 06 10:03 am Link russellpmiller wrote: But did she want a crap load, or any, prints?? If not, what's the deal?? If this was a reduced rate becuase the shoot was TFP, she is probably looking at it as advertising and wanting enough to cover cost of materials.. Lets face it, make up is the one thing that is non reusable.. Models can shoot over and over in an outfit and photographers can use the same camera and in the case of digital, media cards over and over. Our waste is minimal compared to an MUA.. Jan 21 06 10:08 am Link Maybe it's just that...it's too good to be true...maybe you should just have advertised it as a normal shoot and charged your normal rate....or allowed the models to split your normal rate. Jan 21 06 10:09 am Link The problem is now most models expect to be paid or not be paid at all for modeling. Many don't see the difference with shooting with better photographers and they don't want to pay a MUA. To be frank though their right... All a pretty or even average girl needs is a webcam or low level quality image and the TFP offers start coming in. While some will progress past the web and go to modeling agencies most won't. They aren't going to invest a dime in any of this. I remember a quote my mother used to say; 'Wisdom is wasted on the young.' By the time many figure out they should have invested in themselves its too late. Models have a short shelf life. Jan 21 06 10:14 am Link Tony Lawrence wrote: Exactly my point. Smart models will not waste time and will not cut corners. A TFP with a mediorce photographer will lead them nowhere in most cases. The most it can do is bring the model to the attention of a better photographer who will identify the talent and offer her a paid shoot. If the model is smart, she will take the opportunity and invest the money to get this leap. If she's not thinking ahead (or is insecure or not committed), she'll want to save $$ and continue with mediocre photographers doing TFPs (not to say that all photographers doing TFP are mediorce of course). Jan 21 06 05:07 pm Link I'm Interested! Please see my portfolio and let me know if you are interested as well!!! Okay bad joke. Seriously, no one wants to pay money, even for a make-up artist, if they are new. Right now, they are thinking that you need them more than they need you, so if you really wanted to shoot them, you'd foot that boll or let them do their own make-up. And that's where they are going wrong. Once they see the results with the professional make-up artist, they will never shoot without one, even TFP, and even if they have to pay out of pocket for it. It's worth it. I hardly ever do my own make-up anymore and I don't shoot models without a professional make-up artist. Even for my paid shoots, especially for model portfolios/headshots, I actually require that the clients invest in professional hair and make-up if they use my people or their own. Unless they can do it themselves, which I've seen some models whoa re genuises at doing their own make-up. You can't guarantee a great shot otherwise. Plus, I don't like to sit for hours touching up skin on PS because of bad make-up or no make-up. I've turned work away before. My 2 pennies. Jan 21 06 05:16 pm Link ROTFLMGDAMFAO... Man you think that's bad. Try having models FLAKE on you for all expense paid trips to Montego Bay, San Juan Puerto Rico, Maui, and Fiji. And this AFTER reservations and airfare were taken care of and only about 12 hours before the plane was supposed to leave. Good thing I ALWAYS have back up plans and that I don't ever fly commercial for things like that. But the reality of it is that no one has ever accused most models and/or photographers of being business people. The concept of spending money on something that wonderful is lost on them. To many opportunity is something that is HANDED to them with no cost. The payoff for you however is the same as it is for me. The ones who have their heads about them and took the step will reap great rewards. Kind of like models who want me to pay them to shoot and then for me to submit what I shoot to my contacts at various magazines, and studios. Like ummmmm NO!... LOL Blows me away. Especially since you do such great work. Jan 21 06 05:42 pm Link Michael Barian wrote: I don't agree with this in general. And here is why. Overall it costs digital photographers NOTHING to shoot. Not like there are film and developing costs involved. Jan 21 06 06:03 pm Link DJTalStudios wrote: What crack are you smoking???? Jan 21 06 06:07 pm Link raveneyes wrote: Well not to mention theres your time not only shooting but processing even if its digital, not to mention the cost of all the goodies initially, it probally takes up less to make back the money you spent on a digital body than a film body. But not to get into a film vs digital debate, just theres always some degree of cost. Oh and raveneyes, film processing doesnt seem to have shot up at all, though I know scanning services are bloody expensive which is why I picked up a 150$ scanner, but far as development, its like 3.50$ per roll of color negative, and upto 5$ per roll of slide film, not too bad actually (some places have it cheaper than that). Jan 21 06 06:38 pm Link |
