Brittiany wrote:
I am 17 now and I feel that I look a few years older and I represent myself with a very mature attitude which makes me seem older than I am. I notice a lot of people getting WAY more attention when they have lingerie pics especially when I view people around me competing for similar jobs or photographer attention. I see other girls my age doing these shoots and I think maybe I should. But part of me feels like it may hurt my reputation more than help it since I am not professional or working with an exclusive agency.

How do you feel about underage lingerie shooting? Is it a pro or con of model life for 'youngsters'?

Brits, there is no problem as long as all parties (you, photographer, parents) are on the same page, a comfort level is established, boundries set, and all the legalities (releases) are covered. 

I have shot plenty of girls 16 and 17 years of age with the full cooperation of thier parents based on what the 'model' wanted.   Once trust is covered and we have spoken at great lenghts to make clear on what will be done. The shoot gets booked.  No problem, keep it positive.

Marcus

Chris Ambler wrote:
I won't shoot anyone under 18 for any genre whatsoever. Any photographer who will shoot risque genres with someone under 18 is taking their own risk.

That said, who cares? Make up your own mind. Far be it from me to tell anyone what to do.

And on that note, excellent ploy to get people to look at your portfolio. I hope you get all the attention you want.

How dare you accuse me of such a thing! I am not looking for attention but hey, two birds with one stone! I just want advice because it's been on my mind a lot lately and I'm the type of person who can't sleep when somethings buzzing around in their mind. Like a mosquito I guess

Brittiany wrote:

How dare you accuse me of such a thing! I am not looking for attention but hey, two birds with one stone! I just want advice because it's been on my mind a lot lately and I'm the type of person who can't sleep when somethings buzzing around in their mind. Like a mosquito I guess

Sensitive? In this industry? Oh, the humanity.

Chris Ambler wrote:

Sensitive? In this industry? Oh, the humanity.

No, not sensitive. I meant that in a playful way. You know, HAHA. Serious group of people we are.

Oh yea! One more thing. Thank you for all the compliments. You are all beautiful people and skilled at what you do.

Brittiany wrote:
P.S Adriana Lima's beatiful face was added to the Dream Angels when she was only about 15

That's exactly what I was about to say. Make sure your parentals are fine with it and present at the shoot. I know many photographers shoot exactly that, not because of the age she is, but the ages she can represent in an image. It's done quite often and if both you and your parents are comfortable with it, then fine.  It's all I would never from alot of these people till you get to shoot the next supermodel. That said be careful.

Shawn

Brittiany wrote:
I want attention from agencies and well experianced photogs.

Above it may have sounded like I was suggesting you do a lingerie shoot.  I wasn't.  I was simply trying to correct all the people who have this notion that no "reputable photographer" would shoot anyone in lingerie who was under 18.  That notion is false, and simply betrays their own personal biases and/or lack of knowledge of how the fashion industry works.

That said . . .

If you are contemplating shooting lingerie to get "attention from agencies and well experienced photogs" I would suggest it's a bad idea.  Here's why:

A good fashion agency in a major market city like LA or NYC may very well want to send you out to have lingerie (or topless) pictures done in test shoots, and use those to attract the interest of clients and photographers.  It happens daily.  But they don't need to (and don't want to) have potential models running around shooting lingerie on the hope that it will help get them noticed.  It won't.  Swimsuit is just fine.

In the fashion world "well experienced photogs" may well be more interested in you because of lingerie shots, but it's because they will want to do "personal work" that includes lingerie (or less).  That's not a bad thing (** GASP! **) if done by the right photographer under the right conditions - but that typically means with a good agency as an intermediary to screen who does those things and why.  It isn't something you (even if your parents are involved) should be doing on your own.  You won't know how to separate the people who can actually do you some good from those who will only claim it.

All of that nets out to:  if you aren't planning on being a lingerie model in the near future, it's not a good idea to do those shots.

TXPhotog wrote:

Above it may have sounded like I was suggesting you do a lingerie shoot.  I wasn't.  I was simply trying to correct all the people who have this notion that no "reputable photographer" would shoot anyone in lingerie who was under 18.  That notion is false, and simply betrays their own personal biases and/or lack of knowledge of how the fashion industry works.

That said . . .

If you are contemplating shooting lingerie to get "attention from agencies and well experienced photogs" I would suggest it's a bad idea.  Here's why:

A good fashion agency in a major market city like LA or NYC may very well want to send you out to have lingerie (or topless) pictures done in test shoots, and use those to attract the interest of clients and photographers.  It happens daily.  But they don't need to (and don't want to) have potential models running around shooting lingerie on the hope that it will help get them noticed.  It won't.  Swimsuit is just fine.

In the fashion world "well experienced photogs" may well be more interested in you because of lingerie shots, but it's because they will want to do "personal work" that includes lingerie (or less).  That's not a bad thing (** GASP! **) if done by the right photographer under the right conditions - but that typically means with a good agency as an intermediary to screen who does those things and why.  It isn't something you (even if your parents are involved) should be doing on your own.  You won't know how to separate the people who can actually do you some good from those who will only claim it.

All of that nets out to:  if you aren't planning on being a lingerie model in the near future, it's not a good idea to do those shots.

I'm curious aren't many of the models seen in the major European fashion mags
under 18?  Aren't many of those same models in lingerie and gasp even nude?
You made some great points in your posts.  Would people say the same things
if she posed in a swimsuit which can in many cases be more revealing.  I can just
see the thread now.  'Should I pose in a swimsuit?'  and the responses might be;
well I would never shoot a model under 18 in a swimsuit or why do you want to
wear a swimsuit there's plenty of time for that when you get older.  Maybe we
might read; any photographers shooting you in a swimsuit risks jail time.  This
is really silly isn't it?  I'm not suggesting that she pose in some of that see through
lingerie or with whips and chains.  Whats the difference between lingerie and
what you see at the beach?  She's covered at the top and bottom.  Its getting
to the point that we will have to video tape our shoots.  Have a attorney present at all times and no photographer can shoot any model under 18 unless she's covered from head to toe.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Its getting to the point that we will have to video tape our shoots.  Have a attorney present at all times and no photographer can shoot any model under 18 unless she's covered from head to toe.

Tony, let me help you out for your next shoot:  http://simplyislam.com/clitems.asp?i=C& … 20Clothing

TXPhotog wrote:

Tony, let me help you out for your next shoot:  http://simplyislam.com/clitems.asp?i=C& … 20Clothing

Shhh.  I'm already in enough trouble thinking a women should have the right to
choose if she will bear children.  Thinking its beyond stupid to kill or riot
over a cartoon and that Jews aren't evil.  By the way you've got some solid
shots.

Blue Water Photography wrote:
Bottom line: I don't think any reputable photographer, professional or otherwise, will shoot lingerie with minor models.

Good thing thought ain't deeds. Ever seen a JC Penny catalog? Lots of disreputable photographers they must hire in the course of a year. Lots of companies make lingerie, bikinis and thongs for kids. I wonder who they get to model those clothes?  By the way: Why is everyone scared to photograph children?

Geez wheez, people. Get a grip! It's a job!

Chris Ambler wrote:
I wasn't implying that no reputable photographer would shoot someone under 18. Far from it.

Down, boy!  Not everything is about you.

Blue Water Photography wrote:
Bottom line: I don't think any reputable photographer, professional or otherwise, will shoot lingerie with minor models.

iceblueeyedgirl wrote:
Like others stated, any reputable photographer would probably steer clear of wanting to shoot this with a minor.

Vegas Alien wrote:
As long as you're not posed sexually, it's totally legal and not obscene.  Only sick individuals will turn innocent images into porn. I would have no problem shooting a minor in lingerie with parental consent and control over the shoot and conditions (escort, etc).

Yo...stop giving the poor minor inaccurate and downright wrong legal advice. A minor can pose sexually in the United States and not be illegal. Advise her on your own feelings as to that kind of modelling at her age, but you do no one any kind of favors by lying about what the law says.  OK, maybe lying is too strong a word...I should say spouting your ignorance of the law, as that would be a totally accurate assesment of your legal advice. Pure ignorance.

The legal prohibition, and yeah, I checked with lawyers today, is sexually explicit and exploitive, which, they say, is absolutley not the same as sexually suggestive.

Want a US company legally selling images of scantily clad minors, look here: http://childsupermodels.com.  Last year Florida lawmakers tried to make that kind of photography illegal and attempted to shut down sites like that. Instead, the Florida senators got shut down by that raggedy piece of paper in the Sminthsonian called the United States Constitution which, by the way, gives every single American the right to walk around the street buck naked without harrassment. As one judge recently said in a obscene exposure case: "I will agree that the defendant's body is obscene and offensive, hwoever the constitution gives him full right to express his obscene carcass in whatever manner he deems fit." This was a case in which two neighbors were fueding and one decided to drop his pants in front of the next door mother and her kids.

TXPhotog wrote:
That notion is false, and simply betrays their own personal biases and/or lack of knowledge of how the fashion industry works.

Perhaps the most important qualifying statement is whether or not a model at this age is, well, qualified. 

The 'net and the fashion industry are as a distant worlds apart as Venus and Uranus.  Unless the shooter and model are under the guidance of a booker/agent then this thread is moot.  Without that oversight it all becomes pretending, and that's where people get lead down the thorny and hurtful primrose path.

The only answer to this teen debacle is to shoot under the watchful eyes of working professionals, whether that is lingerie or otherwise.  Or, do whatever simply for the sake of it.

MichaelHaynes wrote:
Yo...stop giving the poor minor inaccurate and downright wrong legal advice. A minor can pose sexually in the United States and not be illegal. Advise her on your own feelings as to that kind of modelling at her age, but you do no one any kind of favors by lying about what the law says.  OK, maybe lying is too strong a word...I should say spouting your ignorance of the law, as that would be a totally accurate assesment of your legal advice. Pure ignorance.

The legal prohibition, and yeah, I checked with lawyers today, is sexually explicit and exploitive, which, they say, is absolutley not the same as sexually suggestive.

Want a US company legally selling images of scantily clad minors, look here: http://childsupermodels.com.  Last year Florida lawmakers tried to make that kind of photography illegal and attempted to shut down sites like that. Instead, the Florida senators got shut down by that raggedy piece of paper in the Sminthsonian called the United States Constitution which, by the way, gives every single American the right to walk around the street buck naked without harrassment. As one judge recently said in a obscene exposure case: "I will agree that the defendant's body is obscene and offensive, hwoever the constitution gives him full right to express his obscene carcass in whatever manner he deems fit." This was a case in which two neighbors were fueding and one decided to drop his pants in front of the next door mother and her kids.

You're talking FEDERAL law
As I have noted in other threads, in some states (Pennsylvania is notable here, I've cited big chunks of their laws in other similar threads) it's illegal to pose a minor for photos in a sexually suggestive fashion even if said minor is fully clothed.  And the laws are written in such a way as to leave that VERY open to interpretation.  Chances are in most cases a photographer might win after  along court fight only to have his reputation & finances ruined.
I live in Florida, and a few people, including one I know, got hit with prosecution under that law before it got struck down.  It was enough to ruin them.  And any time the courts knick one of those laws out, they go rushing to pass more.

SLE Photography wrote:

You're talking FEDERAL law
As I have noted in other threads, in some states (Pennsylvania is notable here, I've cited big chunks of their laws in other similar threads) it's illegal to pose a minor for photos in a sexually suggestive fashion even if said minor is fully clothed.  And the laws are written in such a way as to leave that VERY open to interpretation.  Chances are in most cases a photographer might win after  along court fight only to have his reputation & finances ruined.
I live in Florida, and a few people, including one I know, got hit with prosecution under that law before it got struck down.  It was enough to ruin them.  And any time the courts knick one of those laws out, they go rushing to pass more.

Two key points you made: 1) the Florida law was indeed struck down, as will Pennsylvania's once anyone appeals a conviction under it to the Disrict level. 2) Prosecutors do play dirty pool by running to the media with the charges (always of course using the catch phrase 'innocent until proven guilty') yet still they run so quick to the court of public opinion.

Two nice legal rules of thumb: Find an attorney who never goes to court. Such an attorney likely has the resources to shut down a prosecutor before he can even say boo to the press, much less get to court. Second: If innocent, request a bench trial. If guilty, request a jury. A judge will go by the law, including superceding federal law and even the constitution. Juries, who by no means are anywhere near qualified to render verdicts on legal matters, are swayed by emotional and personal feelings and opinons and can be swayed by a good lawyer.

In any event, thoudands of p htos are taken of children everyday. I do not see the massive witch hunt everyone is worried about. Also, prosecutors are loath to take on cases they cannot win. If you and your attorney are armed with the proper information (and sometimes grease) you will be left alone.

area291 wrote:
The only answer to this teen debacle is to shoot under the watchful eyes of working professionals, whether that is lingerie or otherwise.  Or, do whatever simply for the sake of it.

You and I just said the same thing.

NeonLynxie wrote:
I hope I get an answer to this here, if not, then maybe someone can answer me to my email [email protected]


Is it okay for me to shoot in a bra and shorts?
and Having somewhat of my butt showing with a shirt over it?


Its not relle lingerie but its still showing. Idk if thats okay to do or not?



the reason why Im asking is some of the pictures are more on the sexy side.


Thats why I dont know if its right.

Here's a thought. Ask your parents. Not strangers on the internet. If you're asking if it's allowed on this site, the answer is it depends.

PYPI FASHION wrote:

Here's a thought. Ask your parents. Not strangers on the internet. If you're asking if it's allowed on this site, the answer is it depends.

this is true.

as for the bumper of this 2 year old thread...

NeonLynxie wrote:
I hope I get an answer to this here, if not, then maybe someone can answer me to my email [email protected]


Is it okay for me to shoot in a bra and shorts?
and Having somewhat of my butt showing with a shirt over it?


Its not relle lingerie but its still showing. Idk if thats okay to do or not?



the reason why Im asking is some of the pictures are more on the sexy side.


Thats why I dont know if its right.

the lingerie isn't the issue. it's more in how it's portrayed.

Doug Lester wrote:
I can understand your interest in doing lingerie sessions, but it's far safer for the photographer to wait until you turn 18. There is a difference between doing lingerie for a catalog and doing it for the internet.

But I'm very curious as to why no one else has asked, why does your profile say you are 19?

Because the thread was started Apr 03 06 08:41 pm when she was 17 - she's now 19

Doug Lester wrote:
But I'm very curious as to why no one else has asked, why does your profile say you are 19?

The thread is 2 years old...  recently bumped by a 17 year old.

B Ballard Photography wrote:
Bottom line: I don't think any reputable photographer, professional or otherwise, will shoot lingerie with minor models.

So I guess the Sears, JCPennys, & Vickie Secrets Pink line are all shot by "disreputable photographers."

[/sarcasm]

Edit: Sorry, I didn't realize when posting this is a necro-thread.