John Pringle wrote:
The sunlight should read F-16 at any chosen ISO when the shutter match the ISO

100-ISO = 1/125@F-16 in sunlight.

If it is off, the meter is not working...

Basically, you can also point the dome at the light source and measure.
The light that falls on your subject will be captured right. But if the light spread is not enough to cover the rest of your image area, it will need a light modifier... or more power with diffusion.

So that's what I missed by not going to school... I appreciate the info. I'll try that tomorrow in the sun.

John Pringle wrote:
The sunlight should read F-16 at any chosen ISO when the shutter match the ISO

What?!  The Sunny 16 does not replace a meter, it's a rough rule-of-thumb you use if you are caught off without a meter.  It is crude and can be quite inaccurate.  What is "sunlight"?  Overcast counts?  Mid-day?  Dawn or dusk?  On the equator?  Or up in North Pole?  No one would use the sun to calibrate a lightmeter, are you kidding?

If that's the rule you use, why bother with a meter?!

Assuming that you are using the meter correctly (matching ISO on your camera and your meter etc), if you think your meter is way off, send it back to your manufacturer for calibration.

Keith Carey Photography wrote:
Whenever I meter, the meter is always off.

Impossible to answer if you dont mention:

1- how are you metering
2- with what gear
3- for what lighting conditions

Capt Stu Beans wrote:

Impossible to answer if you dont mention:

1- how are you metering
2- with what gear
3- for what lighting conditions

What he said!....but also...

- Are you keeping the little dome clear?
- Are you careful about metering at the spot you're concerned with, and not just in the general area?
- What meter are you working with?  Does it have a spot metering function, and, if so, are you sure you're not using it set to spot?
- As above...for what lighting conditions?  But, more specifically, is this a studio light situation?  Are you metering each light separately?

Keith Carey Photography wrote:
Does anyone know of a good online tutorial for light metering? Whenever I meter, the meter is always off. I do get the pic I want, but I end up eyeballing it. Thanks.

Hopefully you don't mean that you're trusting your LCD display to tell you that your settings are correct...

With an incident meter, point the dome towards your light source. Set the meter's ISO to match your camera's selected ISO, set the shutter speed or aperture desired, and take your reading. Metering for light ratios is a different process. Is that what you were looking for...?

John Pringle wrote:
The sunlight should read F-16 at any chosen ISO when the shutter match the ISO

100-ISO = 1/125@F-16 in sunlight.

If it is off, the meter is not working...

Basically, you can also point the dome at the light source and measure.
The light that falls on your subject will be captured right. But if the light spread is not enough to cover the rest of your image area, it will need a light modifier... or more power with diffusion.

Actually, both statements are incorrect.  The "sweet 16" rule would mean that the shutter speed must equal the ISO.  You would be closer to an accurate measurement if, in bright sun and at ISO 100, the shutter was set at 1/100 (rather than 1/125).

Meter manufacturers recommend that, for primarily front lit images, you point your meter at the camera, not the light source.  The dome of the meter will mimic the shape of the face and the exposure setting will be much more accurate for the diffused highlight.

There is an excellent article at ShootSmarter.com on how to create a "face mask histogram" in Photoshop to determine when your exposure is on the money.  Your meter should be calibrated to your camera (both can be off slightly, even straight out of their boxes) and the face mask histogram is a good place to start.

Christopher Grey Studio wrote:

Actually, both statements are incorrect.  The "sweet 16" rule would mean that the shutter speed must equal the ISO.  You would be closer to an accurate measurement if, in bright sun and at ISO 100, the shutter was set at 1/100 (rather than 1/125).

Meter manufacturers recommend that, for primarily front lit images, you point your meter at the camera, not the light source.  The dome of the meter will mimic the shape of the face and the exposure setting will be much more accurate for the diffused highlight.

There is an excellent article at ShootSmarter.com on how to create a "face mask histogram" in Photoshop to determine when your exposure is on the money.  Your meter should be calibrated to your camera (both can be off slightly, even straight out of their boxes) and the face mask histogram is a good place to start.

I read that article last night and it was excellent. I'm still not sure why my meter seems to be so "off"

lll wrote:

What?!  The Sunny 16 does not replace a meter, it's a rough rule-of-thumb you use if you are caught off without a meter.  It is crude and can be quite inaccurate.  What is "sunlight"?  Overcast counts?  Mid-day?  Dawn or dusk?  On the equator?  Or up in North Pole?  No one would use the sun to calibrate a lightmeter, are you kidding?

If that's the rule you use, why bother with a meter?!

Assuming that you are using the meter correctly (matching ISO on your camera and your meter etc), if you think your meter is way off, send it back to your manufacturer for calibration.

I think he was telling him the sunny sixteen rule to check his meter not as a form of metering. And no it has to be straight sunlight  in pretty much the middle of the day, before the sun gets near the horizon (normally mid morning to late afternoon) for it to work. It's crude but to find out if your meter is working or not it will get you close. My only question is are you using a separate  incident light meter or the reflected one in your camera, they're too very different critters.

Shawn

Shawn Kuck wrote:

lll wrote:
My only question is are you using a separate  incident light meter or the reflected one in your camera, they're too very different critters.

Shawn

Do you mean am I metering with my camera or with a hand held meter. If thats the question, it's a hand held Sekonic L-358

Keith Carey Photography wrote:

I read that article last night and it was excellent. I'm still not sure why my meter seems to be so "off"

I'd recommend you take your meter to a local camera shop and ask them to compare it to a meter they know works well.

Jay Bowman wrote:
I'm not trying to hijack this thread by any means, but I do have a question (which is relevant to the subject)...

For the 2 years I've been shooting, I've always metered TTL.  I orginally began with an Eos Rebel.  I recently purchased a Mamiya 645 (which is fully outfitted) and an RB67 (which I'm presently outfitting).  The prism for the 645 allows for TTL metering, but the prisms for the 67 are a bit beyond my price range at present. 

My question: can the exposure readings from the other cameras be used to set my 67 if I had to or would my exposures be way off?

Jay,

I say get a light meter (Sekonic makes good intro ones) and just plug it into your RB67. I am assuming you got the Mamiya 645E that has TTL metering built in. It is a good guide but it is not as accurate as a hand held meter up to the model. I used that camera once outside shooting a building for a backdrop for a composite photo. I went by both the meter and the TTL reading. The TTl was way off and the chrome was blown out. The Sekonic metered shot was spot on.

Just get the hand held meter and play with it. You will learn more faster by using good equipment that you invest in. The camera can be useless unless you have the right meter. Hell even good lighting. The three go hand in hand to make a good shot.

But to answer your question yes you can use the TTL from another camera. But you will still get the average reading of the entire light measurement reflected of the scene/subject and not the amount of light falling on the scenesubject.

Just my 2 cents from experience from having been where you are now....

Keith Carey Photography wrote:

I read that article last night and it was excellent. I'm still not sure why my meter seems to be so "off"

Keith,

Question????

Are you getting under or over exposure with your meter?? If under exposure trick the meter by setting the asa for 100 at asa 50.  If you are getting over exposures set the meter at asa 160, for asa 100.

Big sky scenes often require that you open the len a half of a stop to a stop over the meter reading, if you are to get any shadow detail.

A meter will get you close, but you have to do the final tuning. Back when we shot all chromes, a lot of test rolls were processed, since it changed some from batch to batch.

Keith Carey Photography wrote:
Hey thanks for all of the great feedback.

*I'm using a Sekonic Flash Master L-358
*I'm shooting primarily indoors with my Hensel flash kit. Usually 1-3 strobes. 500 w
*The setting is 100 ISO on my 20D and on the Sekonic. Multi. Shutter speed 125
I pop up the bulb in the meeter and hold the meeter at my subjects nose pointing directly at the main light sorce. It reads 32 a lot when it should actually read anywhere from 11-16 when I make my "eyeball adjustment"

What the heck am I doing wrong?

I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're in "multi" mode then you're combining readings, meaning that you're averaging over previous readings.  Try single.

Also, if you've got a 3 light setup you should be taking at least 3 light readings.  Try reading your key first, then the other two individually, then all three.  Otherwise, how do you get your lights to balance?

Thoughts, comments, disgusted head-shakes?

House of Indulgence wrote:
Jay,
...Just my 2 cents from experience from having been where you are now....

Much appreciated!  Very good info.

I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're in "multi" mode then you're combining readings, meaning that you're averaging over previous readings.  Try single.

Also, if you've got a 3 light setup you should be taking at least 3 light readings.  Try reading your key first, then the other two individually, then all three.  Otherwise, how do you get your lights to balance?

Thoughts, comments, disgusted head-shakes?

Well, you were right... it was my Multi mode. I tested tonight with the one change and it was spot on. I did learn a lot in this thread and would love to keep it going for other ideas regarding metering in different situations. 

Thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge.

Keith Carey