Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
Max V wrote:
Everyone should get paid. Nothing is free.
Your 'tfp' does not mean "free fun with a hot chick".
There are several options:
*If you are cheap for not paying 50 bucks for a kit fee, tell your model to pay that.
*Don't hire a MUA... Since you are having fun with a hot chick, tell that chick to take care of the makeup.
*Go learn how to do makeup and don't never hire a MUA.
*Charge your model, forget freakin TFP bs... Pay your MUA, stylist.
*Don't do TFP unless its a project. Pay expenses. Value your project, make more money than what you spend on the project.
*Retire. Shoot landscapes, nature, birds, bugs.
Max V. Beyond Human wrote:
lol LOL
Photographer
K E E L I N G
Posts: 39894
Peoria, Illinois, US
If you pay a kit fee to a mua at a TF shoot it's because the Mua was a better negotiator than you.
It's that simple.
Photographer
MLRPhoto
Posts: 5766
Olivet, Michigan, US
EyeofTheBEEholder wrote:
Anyone paying MUA for a tfp shoot has rocks in their head. I've paid a MUA for a TFP shoot. If the MUA doesn't need my work, and having her (they've been female so far) is the key to a TFP shoot with a model I want to work with, it's part of the investment I'm willing to make. I've pretty much decided that I'm going to start insisting some models compensate the MUA as part of a trade for my services.
But none of that's really relevant to the MUA being paid for a shoot that is TFP with them.
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
when I do test work it's for a test and it's to be creative, I don't need the model in on the idea, myself in on the idea, time spent planning, only to have a mua say "well that's cool, I'd love to do it, but I charge a kit fee" - that's bullshit. Either be on the team or not, and none of this $30-50 kit fee crap, either find real paying work or get a day job. Plus, all that makes me do as a photog is to look at their work more closely and decide if they are someone I really want to work with or not, chances are, unless I poop my pants on the spot because their work is that great, I'm going to pass.  Well that and/or I may have to charge a $50 studio fee to cover the rent and cost of consumables I use... Shit the model should charge at least $20 to cover the cost of gas and maybe some other stuff... Which is the last thing I really love about kit fees, when the mua or stylist says "well I need to pay for gas" hunny, I have to pay for gas too...
Photographer
Mac Wolff
Posts: 3665
Litchfield Park, Arizona, US
Makeup Artist
LA Make Up
Posts: 92
Bridgewater, New Jersey, US
Max V wrote:
Everyone should get paid. Nothing is free.
Your 'tfp' does not mean "free fun with a hot chick".
There are several options:
*If you are cheap for not paying 50 bucks for a kit fee, tell your model to pay that.
*Don't hire a MUA... Since you are having fun with a hot chick, tell that chick to take care of the makeup.
*Go learn how to do makeup and don't never hire a MUA.
*Charge your model, forget freakin TFP bs... Pay your MUA, stylist.
*Don't do TFP unless its a project. Pay expenses. Value your project, make more money than what you spend on the project.
*Retire. Shoot landscapes, nature, birds, bugs.
Max V. Loves!
Makeup Artist
LA Make Up
Posts: 92
Bridgewater, New Jersey, US
PYPI FASHION wrote:
I buy everyone in the team food. Food is an expendable and in the end, all that results is crap. LMAO!!!!!!
Photographer
Life Event Photography
Posts: 333
San Antonio, Florida, US
Maybe its time for the TF* concept to die a kind gentle death.
Looking back on the work I have done TF* on location and without the benefits of strobe lighting, MUA, or stylist, I would have been much better off hiring a MUA and a stylist, booking the rental studio, and charging the model.
It would have been a much better investment of everyone's time.
Photographer
Malik Photography
Posts: 28
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Glamour Boulevard wrote:
I had a thread about this a couple of days ago. I asked a MOD to kill it because I saw it getting ugly.
To me the TFP/TFCD plus kit fee is like " Scratch my back please, if you do I will scratch yours for $50 bucks". u hit the nail right on the head.
Photographer
Haarvey Aardvark
Posts: 976
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Art of the nude wrote:
I have been shooting with models almost exactly one year. I'm about to buy my 4th camera. You're doing something wrong.
Model
Laurel Rae
Posts: 2034
Tucson, Arizona, US
TJ Sr wrote:
Gee, with all the MUA's out there just find one who does not require a kit fee. Simple. lol they don't exist where I live :p I can't pay kit fees twice a week so I do my own.. and suck it up haha
Photographer
Haarvey Aardvark
Posts: 976
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Laurel Rae Hervert wrote:
lol they don't exist where I live :p Sure they do. Terms vary dramatically depending who you are and what you bring to the table.
Photographer
Mike Kelcher
Posts: 13322
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
WILLIAMANUEL wrote:
Okay so what is 'A kit fee'? When, MUA's are coming in for TFP/cd work. I'm starting to see this lot. I thought TFP/cd meant = all involved would receive images from the shoot. I understand if you're traveling from another city but isn't everyone traveling from somewhere too? Please someone help me understand. If it's, TFP/cd; how come the MUA receive a kit fee, plus images? A "kit fee" is a fee. It's a method used by MUA's to get paid. Models and photographers should take notice. While models and photographers often spend a lot of money, time and effort working for free, MUA's usually seem to at least get paid something! Actualy, it's very creative. It's a fee to reimburse them for their cost of doing business even if their time and effort is being traded. While models and photographers are working for free, the MUA's seem to be one step ahead of us when it comes to the cost of doing business and moving toward profitability.
You mentioned TFP/CD. I'd expect that "CD" part to be waning in the future in terms of popularity. Fewer and fewer photographers are giving anyone all the images anymore. Sure, the beginners are because it's one of the few benefits they have to talk about. The better ones are dropping the "CD" thing faster than a supersonic fart.
Photographer
AAA Photo Studio
Posts: 161
Miami Beach, Florida, US
When I do a TF* shoot in my humble studio, I always spend money from my own pocket.
I never do a TF* shoot without offering food/beverages to the parties involved just to make them feel welcomed. I sometimes buy new accessories or decorations or even new equipment depending on the nature of the shoot, and never ever thought about asking for a contribution fee from the other participants. :-P
And not to mention the long hours I spent on the post production just to bring great images out and make everybody involved happy and provide them something they can benefit from.
So, as a result, (never happened but...) if a MUA asks for a "kit fee" or a model "cab fare", i will probably thank them and will call the next one.
It's just my own way of participating in a TF* shoot and my free conduct.
Everybody else is free to do it their own way, I respect that. I won't hold a "kit fee" request against a MUA, or a "cab fare" request against a model and if I like them and have a commercial shoot, I will most certainly call them, and will pay what they ask for with a negotiation mark of course. ;-)
That's how i feel about this.
Photographer
Hector Fernandez
Posts: 1152
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico
Glamour Boulevard wrote:
Quality professional cameras run from 1,000-20,000 bucks, good light sets can run upwards of 500-1000 per light,the laptop I use for editing cost almost 3 grand, often a photographers editing charge can reach 50 bucks an hour or more....
And you were saying?............. Still you cant sell in the second hand market a empty box of shadows as you can sell your equipment, also there are no make up rentals, so if you want a special colour you have to pay the full package not only the ammount you used.
Photographer
duds here
Posts: 397
Chicago, Illinois, US
Glamour Boulevard wrote:
I had a thread about this a couple of days ago. I asked a MOD to kill it because I saw it getting ugly.
To me the TFP/TFCD plus kit fee is like " Scratch my back please, if you do I will scratch yours for $50 bucks". Now now play nice, but I do agree with you 100 percent.
Everyone pitches in in a TFP/CD or no one does. Does anyone think about the 65 bucks on backgrounds if you shoot studio seamless? No What about bulbs for you flash when they burn out or some model bumps them and you have to spend bucks replacing them etc.
You're right all are equal in a TF setting, we have costs too, and some of us still shoot film! Somewhere I'm sure, don't actually know anyone, but I have read people still doing that.
Model
Countess Grotesque
Posts: 1425
Mandurah, Western Australia, Australia
A kit fee is actually more affordable for everyone than charging per face. I think many people underestimate how much make-up costs. I'm a make-up artist and model and when I do make-up for free I just see my kit slowly but surely disappearing then I end up losing money because I have to keep buying more make-up. So a kit fee is actually a good thing. You're paying a much smaller fee for the make-up artist to provide their service since they're spending money otherwise to do the shoot.
Photographer
Maria Mylona
Posts: 171
London, England, United Kingdom
Mark Fellows wrote:
photog equip and time to edit costs money. However cameras and lighting don't get used up in the same way.
Every time you use lighting you don't have less light to apply to the next person. Lighting and cameras don't get used up near as fast as makeup.
With each camera you get thousands of uses. I think the 30D is spec'ed at 100000 shutter uses. and mirror and shutter is supposed to withstand that.
If you use your camera for a shoot, you then don't have less camera to use on the next model.
If a makeup artist uses Makeup, they might not have enough to use on the next person and need to spend $$ to buy more.
Cameras don't require reinvestment for each use.
Yes there are cameras that cost up to 45000 for medium format but I doubt anyone that owns one actually does TFP anymore.
I bet a lot of people have invested at least 3000 in thier camera on here but they probably don't do TFP that much either.
Just my two cents.
Mark  +1
well said
MM :-)
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Robert Perez wrote:
Honestly I do not see a problem with asking a kit fee as long as it is disscussed up front at the the start. ... if you do not think the MUA is worth the kit fee then find one you do not have to pay a kit fee. +1
People here make a big deal out of things, that to me, are no big deal. What happened to the words "No thank you?"
Nobody is obligated to do TF, where you think it is a good thing or not. If a MUA is willing to donate his/her time, but not supplies, that is fine. If that doesn't work for you, just say "No" and move on.
I never understand these threads. TF* is not a matter of right.
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3378
Boston, Massachusetts, US
ei Total Productions wrote:
+1
People here make a big deal out of things, that to me, are no big deal. What happened to the words "No thank you?"
Nobody is obligated to do TF, where you think it is a good thing or not. If a MUA is willing to donate his/her time, but not supplies, that is fine. If that doesn't work for you, just say "No" and move on.
I never understand these threads. TF* is not a matter of right. +1 - it all comes down to how much one person is willing to pay to get the services of another person. As long as things are negotiated in good faith (no surprise fees like airlines, cable companies, and used/new car sales), I think anything is fine.
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