Fons Studio wrote:
I use monolights (several Bowens 250, 500, 750 and a Multiblitz Travel pack with 3X200w/s minis). The only inconvenient thing about them is that when you have them up on a boom or a tall stand, you got to bring them down in order to adjust the light output(or climb the ladder). The newer digital heads fix this problem by giving you a wireless (or wired) remote. The power pack does not put out more light , because if you look at joules/dollar, monoheads do better. And it already has been said when your powerpack overheats or dies the shoot stops, not so with monolights. And for the price compared to a 3 head powerpack, I bought an extra mono.

Sturdy stands are a must, as are proper weights.

Good luck.
C.

Hmmm...  True -pack systems generally cost more than monolight systems, however, packs are generally more powerful than monolights.

Also, you can shoot with more than one pack!  Many of the big guns will rent 20-40 packs at a time. Yes, the cost can add up.

Both systems have advantages (and disadvantages).

Berman Fenelus wrote:
Anyone?

Rent...

Rent...

Rent...

Not for a long period, but over the next set of shoots you do, rent each brand you are considering, each setup you are considering purchasing.  In fact if you do all your renting within 30 days of your purchase places like Calumet/Profoto/B+H will give you 50% of your rental cost towards your purchase price!

Nello Ryan wrote:
Hmmm...  True -pack systems generally cost more than monolight systems, however, packs are generally more powerful than monolights.

Also, you can shoot with more than one pack!  Many of the big guns will rent 20-40 packs at a time. Yes, the cost can add up.

Both systems have advantages (and disadvantages).

Iagree that there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems, but in a straight comparison of Joules output per dollar a Mono will usually win.  where a powerpack makes sense is if you needed to pour 1500 ws or more into a single 48" Umbrellaor if you need to constantly adjust the output of the heads and they are located on booms..

20-40 packs ? did you mean 2-4 packs ? cus at an average of 2000ws apiece that's a lot of power for a fashion shoot. You could light a small castle with 40 packs.

Example:

Bowens QuadX Kit  (3000ws) with only 2 heads =  3300.00$
Bowens 2 additional heads for QuadX    =             1180.00$
   4 Head Powerpack Complete              TOTAL:   4480.00$


Bowens 750 Mono X 4  (3000ws)         =              2276.00$

It's interesting to note that a single QuadX head (no power) costs as much as a full 750 Monolight  (570.00$).

Daniel_Bergeron wrote:
By all means, stay away from Calumet/Bowens.

i have to agree.  "budget" equipment is so priced for a reason.  i had a bowens monolight a couple of years ago, and the back caved in due to a *minor* bump.

haven't used dynalights, but they are so damn cute.  plus, there is rental equipment available in the city (you can really only rent profoto, dynalite, and some limited speedo stuff around here, in addition to lumedyne and other portables).

Christopher Bush wrote:
brands are tricky.  there are lots of them with many strengths and weaknesses.  off the top of my head - profoto, elinchrom, hensel, speedotron.  since you're in ny, consider whether or not you're going to be renting alot of accessories.  if yes, look at profoto.  they're everywhere.  their modifiers are interchangeable between monolights and pack systems.

yes but, the profoto modifiers arent interchangeable with the 7b heads

Daniel_Bergeron wrote:
f you are buff, by speedo. Heavy packs. Very reliable. Lots of power. Been going for cheap on ebay lately. Relatively slow recycle, which can be good if you don't have much "clean" power. Beware- they are not arc protected, so, If you pull a cord from a charged pack, it will knock you on your ass.

This is and isn't true.

The smaller Speedo packs (805/1205) are comparable to most other packs in that range. Heavier than most, but not by as much as they're often made out to be:

6.7 lbs Dyna-Lite M1000er (1000)
7.7 lbs Speedo 805 (800)
9.0 lbs  Profoto Acute2 1200R  (1200)
11 lbs Broncolor Nano2 (1200)
13 lbs Norman D12  (1200)
15 lbs Speedo 1205cx  (1200)
17 lbs Broncolor Verso (1200)
20 lbs Profoto Pro-7a 1200 (1200)

At the higher powers, comparing a 2000 watt-second Dyna-Lite M2000 pack (13 lbs M2000) to the 2400 watt-second Speedotron 2405cx (23 lbs), it's less of a context. (But Profoto's 7a and D4 are 25/27 lbs each for 2400 wattseconds.)

OTOH, I've never needed to lug a 4803 pack outside--at 42lbs, that IS a pain.

As for arc protection, I've seen Calumet, Dyna-lite, Speedotron, Ascor, Novatron, and Norman packs arc, even on 'arc protected' sockets. The newer ones are better (including Speedotron), but on unusually humid or dry days....

Dominic Escalante wrote:

yes but, the profoto modifiers arent interchangeable with the 7b heads

not so (thankfully, as i will probably rent that system on occasion).  from the profoto site:

"The Pro-7b model convection cooled modular head is more compact and economical head designed specifically for the Pro-7b battery powered generator. It accepts all Profoto light shaping tools."

Berman Fenelus wrote:
wow
this is the best posting ever
I got a lot more feedback and I'm sure others have learned from this
I'm going w/ monolights but will rent them first to test it out
thanks a million all

just curious....out of all the discussion on this thread, how did you decide on monolights?

Fons Studio wrote:
Iagree that there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems, but in a straight comparison of Joules output per dollar a Mono will usually win.  where a powerpack makes sense is if you needed to pour 1500 ws or more into a single 48" Umbrellaor if you need to constantly adjust the output of the heads and they are located on booms..

20-40 packs ? did you mean 2-4 packs ? cus at an average of 2000ws apiece that's a lot of power for a fashion shoot. You could light a small castle with 40 packs.

Example:

Bowens QuadX Kit  (3000ws) with only 2 heads =  3300.00$
Bowens 2 additional heads for QuadX    =             1180.00$
   4 Head Powerpack Complete              TOTAL:   4480.00$


Bowens 750 Mono X 4  (3000ws)         =              2276.00$

It's interesting to note that a single QuadX head (no power) costs as much as a full 750 Monolight  (570.00$).

You said  "The power pack does not put out more light..."  I disagree with that statement.  But then you followed ."..because if you look at joules/dollar, monoheads do better."   OK, well that's a statement about "cost efficiency" (as opposed just to light output).   I didn't check your math, but I agree that  packs are generally more expensive.  So we might more or less agree.

And yes.  I did say 20-40 packs.  Off the top of my head, there was a guy in the March 2006 of American Photo who did a shoot using 16 profoto 2400 7B packs.  16 is short of 20, but I'm trying to give a reference that you can look up for yourself.  So that's 16 packs and then multiply that times 2400 watt seconds. That's a hell of a lot of juice.  (And that's why profoto D4 packs are built so that you can individually control over 100 of them off a single laptop.  Some people use a LOT of packs...  of course, it all boils down to your own needs.)

In an ideal world, your kit would have both.  (have a screwdriver and a hammer...)  But your wallet generally pulls you in one direction once you get going.  Once you buy a pack, you want a "back up" pack, and then you want an extra head...  and so on.  Once you buy a mono, you don't feel like dumping your dough into a pack when its cheaper/easier to just add another mono.

Then you hop on the forum, and defend your judgement making skills...  and here we are.

Kevin Connery wrote:
As for arc protection, I've seen Calumet, Dyna-lite, Speedotron, Ascor, Novatron, and Norman packs arc, even on 'arc protected' sockets. The newer ones are better (including Speedotron), but on unusually humid or dry days....

Which is another reason why I chose monolights for my own use.  When I assist, it's whatever pack system the photographer wants, but on my own time, it's all about the Alien Bees.

Berman Fenelus wrote:
Any final thoughts? suggestions?

rent.  it's been said. 

pay attention to color temp.  the alien bee fanatics fail to point out that the color of your light is significantly different when the power setting is changed with those lights.  not so with higher-end name-brand equipment.  do not cheap out on lighting.

Berman Fenelus wrote:
is dynalite durable for packs

Yes. Their heads are pretty good, too. Nice light.

Berman Fenelus wrote:
I'm looking to purchase strobes but unsure of which are realiable, flexible and could suit the my range of photography( fashion, portrait, outdoor)
Any feedback would be great

Oh god... here we go again..... "Alien Bees... blah-blah-blah.... DynaLites.... Hensel Porty Pak...... Lumedyne...... "...

Do a search on the multitudes of time this has already been answered ad nauseum.

Berman Fenelus wrote:
Is dyna lite a durable brand?

yes they are very durable. i've used them and i've used visatecs, normans, speedotrons and many many more small and large powerpacks.

isatec is ran on a battery system type of pwer pack that u chare up and can use without a plug.

i use travelites monolites for location because it's easier to setup and less plugs vs limits to having to work everything plugged into a powerpack.

Nello Ryan wrote:

You said  "The power pack does not put out more light..."  I disagree with that statement.  But then you followed ."..because if you look at joules/dollar, monoheads do better."   OK, well that's a statement about "cost efficiency" (as opposed just to light output).   I didn't check your math, but I agree that  packs are generally more expensive.  So we might more or less agree.

And yes.  I did say 20-40 packs.  Off the top of my head, there was a guy in the March 2006 of American Photo who did a shoot using 16 profoto 2400 7B packs.  16 is short of 20, but I'm trying to give a reference that you can look up for yourself.  So that's 16 packs and then multiply that times 2400 watt seconds. That's a hell of a lot of juice.  (And that's why profoto D4 packs are built so that you can individually control over 100 of them off a single laptop.  Some people use a LOT of packs...  of course, it all boils down to your own needs.)

In an ideal world, your kit would have both.  (have a screwdriver and a hammer...)  But your wallet generally pulls you in one direction once you get going.  Once you buy a pack, you want a "back up" pack, and then you want an extra head...  and so on.  Once you buy a mono, you don't feel like dumping your dough into a pack when its cheaper/easier to just add another mono.

Then you hop on the forum, and defend your judgement making skills...  and here we are.

Berman Fenelus wrote:
Is dyna lite a durable brand?

Dyna-Lite packs (Wi1000s - 2 of them) have stood up to my abuse. Which includes but is not limited to short drops, supporting weights, stands falling on top of them, etc. I haven't dropped a head yet so I don't know how strong the assembly is, but it's all metal so I assume it won't break easily.

The only thing I have ever “brokenâ€? on them is the 1/3 stop selector dial which I popped off by accident. I took it in for repairs (with 15-20 minutes of my home) and they told me that a small screw (attaches knob to pack) wasn’t tightened properly. lol
Easy Fix.


Their 1100Ws PS Inverter is also tough (and pretty light although the lead acid battery is quite heavy for its size).

Berman Fenelus wrote:
wow
this is the best posting ever
I got a lot more feedback and I'm sure others have learned from this
I'm going w/ monolights but will rent them first to test it out
thanks a million all

Now that you've made your decision for monolights - do not low ball your light stands.  Monolights require solid, sturdy stands (preferably air-cushioned). I use both pack/head system and Photogenic monolights. My pack heads weight in about 1lb and the monolights about 7 pounds bare without softboxes or umbrellas. If at all possible go with the heaviest, sturdiest stands you can find. I prefer Manfrotto or Avenger C-stands for monolights.

Mal at Hidden Creek wrote:

Now that you've made your decision for monolights - do not low ball your light stands.  Monolights require solid, sturdy stands (preferably air-cushioned). I use both pack/head system and Photogenic monolights. My pack heads weight in about 1lb and the monolights about 7 pounds bare without softboxes or umbrellas. If at all possible go with the heaviest, sturdiest stands you can find. I prefer Manfrotto or Avenger C-stands for monolights.

I would agree with that. I prefer the Manfrotto/Bogen Stackers. Get the 13' ones, as they are sturdier. My 640 Ws Buff lights probably weigh in at about

GG-Deluxe wrote:
Im glad that this post has made its way back.

Because honestly, the Pack and Head fanboys are worse than the Mac fanboys sometimes.

The same is true of monolight "fanboys".

GG-Deluxe wrote:
The other great thing about monolights is that you can use them either on AC or with an AC sine wave generator such as the Honda EU1000/2000, or a non proprietary battery pack such as that offered by Buff, Innovatronix or Dynalite.

As can most pack systems in the same power ranges.

I've found that a mix of pack and monolights works better for me than either all monolight or all pack/head systems. OTOH, I don't insist others do things my way, as so many "fanboys" on both sides can do. Someone whose needs are lower powered, or never/rarely boom a powerful light may find that all monolights works better; some others may find an all pack system to be more effective.