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CHARGING FOR TFP
OKAY HERES MY QUESTION, WHY IS IT THAT SOME PHOTOGRAPHERS CHARGE FOR TFP AND SOME DONT? Jul 20 05 04:37 pm Link Some are better than others. Most published commercial photographers charge for their services. If they meet an exceptional model, they may work out an agreement where the photographer will shoot for her portfolio and for his own work. TFP is usually offered by amateurs and hobbyists who need models to practice with. Many guys with a camera just want to see a girl naked, so they offer TFP as well. Jul 20 05 04:45 pm Link The term TFP means TRADE for prints. If someone is charging (even if they are a pro) then they are violating the idea behind a TFP. They aren't TRADING services, they are charging.... Jul 20 05 04:48 pm Link who knows. if you want to shoot let me know. i live in bayside queens and shoot in the city. i won't charge you TFP. cheers scott Jul 20 05 04:48 pm Link jackasses......... obviously they have no clue as to what they are doing much less understand the concept of tfp. it is just that T is for time, F is for, and P is for prints. so it is supposed to be a collaboration of model and photorapher so they may BOTH benefit from the shoot. nuff said? Jul 20 05 04:49 pm Link Some may also charge a reduced rate, giving you images and copyright useage ( mostly for promo purposes such as web, comps, etc ), and perhaps even a print or 2. The reduced rate being far less then a normal session fee. And under most situations, you probably wouldn't have any rights to copyright. Reason being, a photographer has far more work to do after the shoot then the model.. A 3-4 hour shoot may entail another 2-4 hours of edit work.. Jul 20 05 04:51 pm Link Posted by Chris: jackasses......... obviously they have no clue as to what they are doing much less understand the concept of tfp. it is just that T is for time, F is for, and P is for prints. so it is supposed to be a collaboration of model and photorapher so they may BOTH benefit from the shoot. nuff said? this post is very telling..... Jul 20 05 04:52 pm Link Posted by Chris: Well I wouldn't charge if I were you either. Jul 20 05 04:58 pm Link But Doug, is it a good story?? Jul 20 05 04:59 pm Link Posted by Keith aka Wolfie: Yes, and I hate doing Photoshop. Jul 20 05 05:02 pm Link Posted by XtremeArtists: Posted by Keith aka Wolfie: Yes, and I hate doing Photoshop. I'm shocked, Herb!! I so thought your stuff came out of the camera all perfect; no editing needed... My bubble is burst.. Jul 20 05 05:06 pm Link THANKS EVERYONE FOR RESPONDING! I COULDNT UNDERSTAND! Jul 20 05 05:06 pm Link Posted by Keith aka Wolfie: Posted by XtremeArtists: I'm shocked, Herb!! I so thought your stuff came out of the camera all perfect; no editing needed... My bubble is burst.. I like to have my cake and eat it too! Jul 20 05 05:10 pm Link Maybe they have a stylist or makeup artist to work with. Maybe they want a high quality shot not just SAMO, same old shit coming out of the shoot. Maybe the stylist or makeup artist needs some cash for materials or just won't work completely free just on principle with someone new. Maybe the same for the photographer. Maybe the model is just not that great. Maybe the model will not end up in the photographers portfolio so why do completely free, the photograper or crew may actually be doing the model a favor by not charging full rate. Even an assistant photographer, stylist, makeup artist makes around $225 to $250 a day in NY city. Maybe they do not want to pay for lunch given all of the above. Maybe something broke and needs to be fixed. Maybe one photographer is in demand and another is not. Jul 20 05 05:10 pm Link just an fyi- as mentioned tfp means time/trade for prints. it's a term that evolved on the net. irl we call it a test but there are two kinds of tests and tfp helps make it clear what the difference is. generally a test shoot is tfp. when a working photographer shoots a test it's usually a trade. paid tests are usually done by photographers who do a chunk of business doing portfolio work, or a working photographer approached by someone who is looking for a specific kind of image for their book. sometimes the payment just covers expenses (but with so many shooting digitally much of that is moot). otherwise the fee is just that--a shoot fee. i don't do paid because i don't have the time to shoot something i don't want in my book. (irl, photographers have hard copy portfolios to drop with art directors/buyers and editors. it's referred to as a book. thought i'd share that because a lot of internet based models aren't familiar with the term.) so as others have mentioned if you are supposed to be doing tfp and you are being asked for money, the photographer isn't doing tfp! Jul 20 05 05:25 pm Link TFP is a strange internet term to begin with as mentioned. Someone here came up with the letters SFC which is often a more workable term. Often real profit is not made in doing these shoots but costs can vary widely as can quality of shoot even from the same people. Jul 20 05 05:31 pm Link "so as others have mentioned if you are supposed to be doing tfp and you are being asked for money, the photographer isn't doing tfp!" Isn't the time in question, the time the model spends in front of the camera and the photographer spends behind the Camera?? In my book that doesn't include editing time.. With film, you dropped the film off, got the 4x6's, gave them to the model and be done.. Ok, another trip to have some 8x10's if you made that part of the deal.. Digital means that the photographer is now doing a good chunk of what the lab did.. The model is still doing the same thing as in the days of film when the shoot ended.. NADA.. And cost to mail images/disks out?? The overall cost to the photographer is far greater then the model, unless of course she has hired a MUA.. I see no issue with putting a small fee and still calling it TFP. In most cases, the model gets more rights to the images, more time and probably more overall images then if she had hired the photographer.. Just my .05 cents... Jul 20 05 06:05 pm Link I don't normally charge for TFP if I do a TFP shoot BUT, if you want to shoot in the studio I do ask for a studio fee which isn't much, $50 to $75. If you can't come up with that kind of money for studio time, I will normally wait to contact you until I have a shoot in the studio and I'll ask you to if you want to come. You as the model may have to wait a long long time until the paying shoot is over, but that's a choice you'll have to make. Many many many models forget that once they leave the shoot the shoot is not actually over. For every 1 hour I spend on a shoot, I spend an additional hour after the shoot, so if we TFP for 3 hours, I'll spend another 3 hours after the shoot with the images, meanwhile the model is home chill'n watch'n Desperate Housewifes. If you get a cd from a photographer right after your shoot is over and that's it, that situation would give me pause as a model. But that's just me. Holla Jul 20 05 06:12 pm Link The only real problem with charging for a shoot and calling it TFP is condfusion. It's fine to charge full rates, or reduced rates, but you might as well call it Frank as call it TFP. It's a paid test. Jul 20 05 06:30 pm Link Posted by Keith aka Wolfie: well, maybe that's how some people do it but not anyone i know. i shoot film and so do a lot of the photographers i know. i've never dropped off film and gave someone a mess of proofs and said, "good luck." Jul 20 05 06:31 pm Link Posted by EMG STUDIOS: You guys are amazing! How the heck do you possibly manage that 1:1 (hour in studio & hour after the shoot) ratio? Not including the archiving and cataloging of images after a shoot, I easily/routinely spend anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour PER IMAGE that I process. A "typical" glamour shot for me ends up with 8-12 (sometimes even more) layers in PhotoShop, but boy, the results are worth the effort (IMHO). Jul 20 05 06:34 pm Link I only do testing, tears and paid assignments. TFP doesn't exist in my world anymore. Jul 20 05 06:37 pm Link Some new internet models think photographers only do TFP or pay models. When a photographer gives them a rate, they wonder why the photographer charges for TFP, since the only other option besides TFP is to pay the model. My original reply didn't make any assumptions about the photographer or model. My question is how much longer will this thread continue? Jul 20 05 06:49 pm Link I can make it longer. I want to mention that I DO TFP. Why? Cause I hate just sitting around doing nothing and I still can't figure out how to make money at this (outside weddings and glamour) Star Jul 20 05 07:29 pm Link Posted by XtremeArtists: Posted by Keith aka Wolfie: Posted by XtremeArtists: I'm shocked, Herb!! I so thought your stuff came out of the camera all perfect; no editing needed... My bubble is burst.. I like to have my cake and eat it too! I'm sooo glad I wasn't eating dinner when I read this post..OMFG Herb, you crack me up. (read your tag dude). Jul 20 05 07:39 pm Link [b]You guys are amazing! How the heck do you possibly manage that 1:1 (hour in studio & hour after the shoot) ratio? Not including the archiving and cataloging of images after a shoot, I easily/routinely spend anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour PER IMAGE that I process. A "typical" glamour shot for me ends up with 8-12 (sometimes even more) layers in PhotoShop, but boy, the results are worth the effort (IMHO). Maybe I'll stay a hobbiest, when I shoot at the club in Seattle, I shoot from 200-400 images or 5-7 different people (models) and after uploading, sorting and editing/burning disc for distribution, I may spend 6 hours post shoot on the computer. Jul 20 05 07:49 pm Link Some charge a small fee to recover any costs, film, gas, studio fees, etc and to make sure the model is truley serious about working. Although not all of us can afford it if there is a really good photographer that we want to work with we don't mind saving a little bit of money for really good images. SHana Jul 20 05 08:40 pm Link The only time I ever heard of a charge that came with a a TFP was to cover the cost of a MUA and Hairstylist. Alot of people play games about TFP and I heard a few doing it with TFCD. Make sure to see if you are getting all the prints or a % of the prints. Same with the TFCD all or a %. Have it in black and white and on the Models Release. If it is not on the Release walk out the door models!!!!! Jul 20 05 09:00 pm Link Up until 2 years ago when I shot a model, it was always a trade for services unless it was a job. My criteria for shooting a model on a job is and was very different than who I would do a test with. Once the online thing started the terminology seemed to change from test to TFP. I still shoot them but now call it a TFP. Same act different name. If I charge a model for a shoot it is a different scenario, she is a client and I shoot exactly what she asks for. (not always the most creative or exciting photography) if I shoot a test or TFP I am primarily shooting for myself, the model will get far more interesting work from one of these shoots, the caveat however is that I want to work with her, and my reasons for doing it are because I think I may be able to get something good enough to be in my portfolio. Beauty is not always the prime requirement. Currently I am working on a series of images and I want to shoot with a number of different types of women. The age range has been 18 for the youngest and 51 for the oldest, there is also a range of shapes and builds and different ethnicities. It really all depends on if I think the model has something to offer that I am interested in. Rich Jul 20 05 09:26 pm Link I here yaâll, ya winers. Yes I do TFP, because I understand it model talk for no fee charged. Yes, I spend 3 hours in Photoshop for every hour in the studio, but hey I am a little OC. We photographer have cameras, strobes and etc that we hemorrhage money on. But its not like the TFP job we do donât help us make money in the end. If they donât, then donât do them. But donât lie if youâre charging, or con a model into paying for your test materials. It give all photographers a bad name. Yah and being a model is so easy and cheap, they just show up, play and leave . You donât have to excise, have weekly hair, nail and was appointments. Or buy wardrobe, make-up, eat right or not eat(and wreck their health). Because weâre all taking pictures of 98 year old, hard drinkâen, chain smokes, who has body hair like a yetty and is in a grain sack. Jul 20 05 10:05 pm Link Posted by maria831: Real quick, because they are trying to make quick buck off of potential models. They prey on the people who don't know better. Jul 20 05 10:50 pm Link Posted by XtremeArtists: Posted by Keith aka Wolfie: Yes, and I hate doing Photoshop. I wish models would take this into consideration. Jul 20 05 10:54 pm Link Posted by Mark Crismond Photos: I beg to differ with much of this response, only because what ride would they be taken for? Many point and shoot photographers could care less about how many shots they take or hand off to the model right after the shoot is done. These are the guys who take 500 pictures per shoot in search of that 1 gem. Jul 21 05 03:24 pm Link Gotta agree with EMG here. 6 out of 100 is a pretty good number for a typical shoot. Any more would be redundant. still, I want them to be the six of my choice. Jul 21 05 04:06 pm Link ok i was gonna thread hijack a bit... but i made my own thread instead. ;p Jul 26 05 05:26 am Link Posted by Chris: Thank god someone in the thread knows what they're talking about. Jul 26 05 05:33 am Link Posted by CThomson: Craig, it's obvious by looking at the photos on your portfolio that what you say above is true. Since it doesn't look like any skin softening was done or blemish romoval, I can understand that you have no clue about why someone would/could spend 30 minutes (or even longer) per image to produce the best possible result. Jul 26 05 09:00 am Link Posted by Chip York: LMAO!! Jul 26 05 09:28 am Link TFP=trade for print. exactly as it sounds and no charge. These are what are mostly in my port. I have hired a photographer to take port pics for me...which included the shots I wanted, the outfits I wanted, the poses I wanted...he really had no say so....kind of like when a photographer pays me to model, I really don't have my say in what kind of shots I'm doing. If a photographer does TFP, it's to improve his port as well, which means they will be excellent pictures and you both can share ideas about what each of you are looking for to add to your port. If you pay them, then it's just like going to Olan Mills for a family picture, you pick out the shots you want and buy them...they're yours to do what you want and the photographer didn't gain from the shoot except cash money. Jul 26 05 12:29 pm Link Mutually beneficial. Has nothing to do with whether they have been published or not. I have worked with many "published" photographers that like my look and feel that I can add to their portfolio. THerefore we collaborate and do TFP or TFCD. No charge, but magnificent photos that would have cost hundreds. Jul 26 05 12:36 pm Link |
