ShivaKitty wrote:



It  was nice finally having a positive, constructive thread in the model forum, that people felt provided answers to specific questions ...

Yeah.  It WAS.

MO Rina wrote:

Models in my line of work don't get signed - there are no agencies for art nude models.  I make my living working with a lot of extremely talented photographers, some who do so as a hobby and some not. 

And, just so you know....a hooker is the lady I saw two nights ago giving a guy a blowjob in the bushes at the back of a parking lot.  She and I have nothing in common.

This, about a million times over.

ShivaKitty wrote:


It  was nice finally having a positive, constructive thread in the model forum, that people felt provided answers to specific questions ...

Ignore his ridiculous posts, and it still can be. Someones always gonna be there to piss on your happy parade. This thread is still incredible beneficial to models of all experience levels.

Thanks for creating it, lovely.

Snake Biscuits wrote:
Someones always gonna be there to piss on your happy parade.

ShivaKitty wrote:

Snake Biscuits wrote:

Party in SF2?

Kelly Reye wrote:
How does this work? I mean if your doing 18+ work, you need to show ID, thus your real name.

A model I worked with requested I insert this sentence in the model release, quote
"The photographs will only be associated with the model's alias and never the given legal name."
unquote

ShivaKitty wrote:

Party in SF2?

I'll bring pie and strippers!

ShivaKitty wrote:



It  was nice finally having a positive, constructive thread in the model forum, that people felt provided answers to specific questions ...

One broked bulb won't ruin the whole strand of pretty lights. We swap him out and keep on partying

Sabrina Maree wrote:
I also think you need to be in the business of making people feel good... I work with lots of hobbyists and newbies who pay my rates and never make a dime off my pics. But I chat, I flirt, I hang and I try to make it as FUN as possible, that makes it worth it for all of us.

As an extension of this- I keep in mind that I am being hired to help the photographer bring his or her artistic vision into reality.  I am not being hired to play creative director, ignore directions/suggestions, or tell photographers how to set up their lights.  If you're like me, and get great satisfaction from helping people create images that THEY are proud of, you're in good shape.  If you aren't going to be happy about surrendering the reigns of creative control to those who hire you, you may run into problems.

Engel Schrei wrote:
One broked bulb won't ruin the whole strand of pretty lights. We swap him out and keep on partying

KariMarie wrote:
I am not being hired to play creative director, ignore directions/suggestions, or tell photographers how to set up their lights.  If you're like me, and get great satisfaction from helping people create images that THEY are proud of, you're in good shape.  If you aren't going to be happy about surrendering the reigns of creative control to those who hire you, you may run into problems.

Nice addition.

Good points.

ShivaKitty wrote:
I compiled a list of basic suggestions for models looking to eventually make money from modeling. Some people might find these suggestions offensive, or harsh. It is from my own personal experience, not the law, not the Every(wo)man's-Modeling-Holy-Book by any means. Some of these topics have been discussed to death, and beaten into the ground, but models still ask about them, so I provided input regardless.


Before you even consider starting to model full-time, you should be comfortable with the idea of accepting paid work from people whose images you feel are really pretty horrible, or at least mediocre. Understand that many of the people you shoot with will post unflattering images of you all over the internet, and you will have no right to complain since you were fairly compensated, in cash, after the shoot.

When you first reach a point where you realize you *can* make money from modeling, you will NOT just arbitrarily "set" a rate. When that time comes, you will start being offered certain amounts of money per shoot. Often, the amount you will be offered will seem surprisingly low. It isn't. As you model longer, build a diverse portfolio, and have a list of strong references, you are likely to be offered increased amounts of money. Eventually, you will have more control over the rate at which you work. In the beginning, the people hiring you will control your rate. You gain more control over your rate in accordance with experience level, and reputation.

You cannot assume that every person who contacts you is creepy, or harmful. Understand that you will be shooting with a lot of people whom you probably wouldn't care to socialize with in your daily life. Some folks are unpleasant, stinky, have no social skill, etc. You will be shooting with some of these people, yes. However, if they are not disrespectful to you verbally, and if they do not engage in overt transgressions, you are going to be okay. Most people are good people. Most photographers and artists do treat their models very well, and with respect. Have some trust in the goodness of humankind. You will be pleasantly surprised with what you find.

You should be comfortable setting personal limits, but also be flexible with those limits when you realize you have started outgrowing them --- and yes, many of the things you start off saying "never" to become okay to you, or even fun, after you have been shooting for awhile. Your personal values are likely to change, because modeling full-time will force you to grow in areas of challenge that many people never even encounter, let alone go out and face bravely.

Do not let other people determine when you have outgrown certain limits and boundaries. You will know. You. You. You. You.Will.Know.

Certain things, that modeling full-time kind of forces upon you, will increase your self-esteem, your street smarts, and your personal savvy. An example is travel. I never traveled alone until I started modeling. Now, I do it a lot, and I do it fearlessly. Modeling just changes you. It really, really does. It changes who you are, how you interact with the world around you, how others perceive you. You are either able to go with that natural ebb and flow - grow with it, rather - or not.

People will often try to convince you that you are not worth the rate/trade/compensation you feel your work is worth. Either agree, or move on. You might find out that you're not so great after all, or you might discover that you are -in fact- talented, and great at what you do. Anticipate that your perception of yourself, and your perception of your work's value, will shift as you grow personally from your new experiences.

Be willing to spend a lot of time on the road. In 2009, I was putting an average of 500 miles per week on my car, and I did additional long-distance trips (requiring airplanes). There are ways to travel cheap(er), such as trading shooting hours for airfare, but it can be difficult to wrangle up these jobs. Getting started traveling to shoot tends to happen naturally over time. It is not worth hurrying; when it's time for you to work elsewhere, it will happen.

Time and time again, models you think are uglier, dumber, or less experienced will be selected for jobs, while you will be rejected. You will learn that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, and you are the perfect model - for a DIFFERENT photographer.

You will lose old friends who refuse to support you, but you will gain new friends within the industry, who understand where you are coming from, and care about your goals and development as a creative person.

You will become jaded about some things, because -as with any job- the stress wears on you over time. You will become more open to many, many lovely things that you would have never experienced working in an office, or in doing retail work.

You will likely evolve in a "hustler" of sorts. You learn to negotiate, bargain, weigh options, etc.

You will become very good at managing your ever-changing schedule.

You will need to decide, relatively early in the game, whether you want to keep your modeling life private, or whether you want to "come out" to your family and friends. If you are over 18, and living independently, whatever you choose to do with your body and likeness is your personal business, and yours alone. Just like your personal finances stop being your parents' business once you are working and out of their house, so does the ways in which you choose to use your body. If you choose to share the information, wonderful. If you don't, it's your heart/mind/body, and only you own it.

You will be well-advised to use a stage name - religiously - for any nude, erotic or fetish work. No one should have to tell you that this shit can come back to bite you in the ass when you are 45, and running for mayoral office. Even if you use a stage name, it can still come back to bite. Just keep that in mind.

Absolutely amazing advice two thumbs up. I actually went and revised a few things on my port.

Kelly Reye wrote:
How does this work? I mean if your doing 18+ work, you need to show ID, thus your real name.

OOPS.

QuietAsKept wrote:
I have a good question. If a model can not find representation, how does she figure out which type of modeling is good for her?

That depends on different factors, from personal preference to height and build.

A tall, thin woman could shoot both art nudes and fashion-type work, but might not feel suited to glamor because that genre often relies on having a voluptuous figure.

A shorter, thicker woman could shoot art nudes and glamor, but would not be appropriate for fashion, because fashion relies on height and thinness.

What do you like to do, and what do you *look* best doing?

Andy Virus wrote:
You shouldn't be doing anything that you find fun for money.  If I didn't find this fun, I wouldn't be doing it.  Of course you want to make a living, but you should be doing this or whatever you are doing because you love it.  Its fairly easy to tell who is on this site for the wrong reasons and it takes it away from all of us that do it for the right ones.  I see a lot of male models that just stand there and flex their muscles and try to look "badass" and say "hey I can model because I have big arms and abs and tattoos of tribal symbols that I have no idea the meaning of with the IQ of a couch".  Which is why I'm proud of the photos I have created and I love doing this, because its another way for me to be creative and escape from the bullshit we call "reality".  I've met amazing people doing this and made long lasting friendships and relationships.  Let people be who they want to be.  I try not to judge, but we all do at some point.  Just don't criticize someone else, because you don't fancy their lifestyle or the path they chose when you don't even know anything about them.  Thats just my opinion XD   This is has to be one of the few and only threads on MM that is actually helping people.

"Any work of art that is motivated by wealth or desire for money is unhealthy."
-Oscar Wilde

I've never wanted to model JUST for money.

ShivaKitty wrote:
What do you like to do, and what do you *look* best doing?

Since I've been on MM I haven't done any other types of shoots but Commercial Print shoots.

Andy Virus wrote:
You shouldn't be doing anything that you find fun for money.

A person should not feel they are being made a slave to his/her occupation.

Ideally, it's good to have fun at work, within reason. You should not have to dread going to work.

QuietAsKept wrote:

Since I've been on MM I haven't done any other types of shoots but Commercial Print shoots.

If this is not what makes you happiest, why not answer casting calls for trade set-ups that allow you to look into other genres?

Andy Virus wrote:
You shouldn't be doing anything that you find fun for money.

See I feel the exact opposite.

ShivaKitty wrote:

If this is not what makes you happiest, why not answer casting calls for trade set-ups that allow you to look into other genres?

I am in the process of doing that now

Andy Virus wrote:
You shouldn't be doing anything that you find fun for money.

Sabrina Maree wrote:
See I feel the exact opposite.

X2

ShivaKitty wrote:

Andy Virus wrote:
You shouldn't be doing anything that you find fun for money.

X2

Of course your gonna wanna try to make money doing something you love, who wouldn't?  But if you end up not making money, but you still love doing it and it brings you happiness, would you stop altogether?  My biggest dream is to make music for a living.  I'm not making any money with music atm, but I do it because I love it and it brings me happiness.  Same thing with modeling.  I'm doing it because I love it.  If I get a career out of it, great I'm fine with that, if I don't, oh well, I'll keep doing it till its not fun for me anymore.

Andy Virus wrote:

Of course your gonna wanna try to make money doing something you love, who wouldn't?  But if you end up not making money, but you still love doing it and it brings you happiness, would you stop altogether?  My biggest dream is to make music for a living.  I'm not making any money with music atm, but I do it because I love it and it brings me happiness.  Same thing with modeling.  I'm doing it because I love it.  If I get a career out of it, great I'm fine with that, if I don't, oh well, I'll keep doing it till its not fun for me anymore.

+1

Andy Virus wrote:

Of course your gonna wanna try to make money doing something you love, who wouldn't?  But if you end up not making money, but you still love doing it and it brings you happiness, would you stop altogether?  My biggest dream is to make music for a living.  I'm not making any money with music atm, but I do it because I love it and it brings me happiness.  Same thing with modeling.  I'm doing it because I love it.  If I get a career out of it, great I'm fine with that, if I don't, oh well, I'll keep doing it till its not fun for me anymore.

If you love something and work your ass off you will find a way to make money off of it. It might not be the most obvious, conventional option, but doing what you love is the best way to make money.

ShivaKitty wrote:
I compiled a list of basic suggestions for models looking to eventually make money from modeling. Some people might find these suggestions offensive, or harsh. It is from my own personal experience, not the law, not the Every(wo)man's-Modeling-Holy-Book by any means. Some of these topics have been discussed to death, and beaten into the ground, but models still ask about them, so I provided input regardless.


Before you even consider starting to model full-time, you should be comfortable with the idea of accepting paid work from people whose images you feel are really pretty horrible, or at least mediocre. Understand that many of the people you shoot with will post unflattering images of you all over the internet, and you will have no right to complain since you were fairly compensated, in cash, after the shoot.

When you first reach a point where you realize you *can* make money from modeling, you will NOT just arbitrarily "set" a rate. When that time comes, you will start being offered certain amounts of money per shoot. Often, the amount you will be offered will seem surprisingly low. It isn't. As you model longer, build a diverse portfolio, and have a list of strong references, you are likely to be offered increased amounts of money. Eventually, you will have more control over the rate at which you work. In the beginning, the people hiring you will control your rate. You gain more control over your rate in accordance with experience level, and reputation.

You cannot assume that every person who contacts you is creepy, or harmful. Understand that you will be shooting with a lot of people whom you probably wouldn't care to socialize with in your daily life. Some folks are unpleasant, stinky, have no social skill, etc. You will be shooting with some of these people, yes. However, if they are not disrespectful to you verbally, and if they do not engage in overt transgressions, you are going to be okay. Most people are good people. Most photographers and artists do treat their models very well, and with respect. Have some trust in the goodness of humankind. You will be pleasantly surprised with what you find.

You should be comfortable setting personal limits, but also be flexible with those limits when you realize you have started outgrowing them --- and yes, many of the things you start off saying "never" to become okay to you, or even fun, after you have been shooting for awhile. Your personal values are likely to change, because modeling full-time will force you to grow in areas of challenge that many people never even encounter, let alone go out and face bravely.

Do not let other people determine when you have outgrown certain limits and boundaries. You will know. You. You. You. You.Will.Know.

Certain things, that modeling full-time kind of forces upon you, will increase your self-esteem, your street smarts, and your personal savvy. An example is travel. I never traveled alone until I started modeling. Now, I do it a lot, and I do it fearlessly. Modeling just changes you. It really, really does. It changes who you are, how you interact with the world around you, how others perceive you. You are either able to go with that natural ebb and flow - grow with it, rather - or not.

People will often try to convince you that you are not worth the rate/trade/compensation you feel your work is worth. Either agree, or move on. You might find out that you're not so great after all, or you might discover that you are -in fact- talented, and great at what you do. Anticipate that your perception of yourself, and your perception of your work's value, will shift as you grow personally from your new experiences.

Be willing to spend a lot of time on the road. In 2009, I was putting an average of 500 miles per week on my car, and I did additional long-distance trips (requiring airplanes). There are ways to travel cheap(er), such as trading shooting hours for airfare, but it can be difficult to wrangle up these jobs. Getting started traveling to shoot tends to happen naturally over time. It is not worth hurrying; when it's time for you to work elsewhere, it will happen.

Time and time again, models you think are uglier, dumber, or less experienced will be selected for jobs, while you will be rejected. You will learn that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, and you are the perfect model - for a DIFFERENT photographer.

You will lose old friends who refuse to support you, but you will gain new friends within the industry, who understand where you are coming from, and care about your goals and development as a creative person.

You will become jaded about some things, because -as with any job- the stress wears on you over time. You will become more open to many, many lovely things that you would have never experienced working in an office, or in doing retail work.

You will likely evolve in a "hustler" of sorts. You learn to negotiate, bargain, weigh options, etc.

You will become very good at managing your ever-changing schedule.

You will need to decide, relatively early in the game, whether you want to keep your modeling life private, or whether you want to "come out" to your family and friends. If you are over 18, and living independently, whatever you choose to do with your body and likeness is your personal business, and yours alone. Just like your personal finances stop being your parents' business once you are working and out of their house, so does the ways in which you choose to use your body. If you choose to share the information, wonderful. If you don't, it's your heart/mind/body, and only you own it.

You will be well-advised to use a stage name - religiously - for any nude, erotic or fetish work. No one should have to tell you that this shit can come back to bite you in the ass when you are 45, and running for mayoral office. Even if you use a stage name, it can still come back to bite. Just keep that in mind.

JohnnyK wrote:

A model I worked with requested I insert this sentence in the model release, quote
"The photographs will only be associated with the model's alias and never the given legal name."
unquote

I print two versions of my release. One has the phrasing "in conjunction with my own or a fictitious name", the other has "in conjunction with a fictitious name listed below". Both versions have a line for aliases. I pick the appropriate version for the model I am working with (some have strong feelings about remaining under an alias, others don't care).

QuietAsKept wrote:

Since I've been on MM I haven't done any other types of shoots but Commercial Print shoots.

Many models would just about give their eye teeth for these type of shoots, so feel blessed that you're wanted for them;)  and at the same time, set up your own Casting Calls for other types of shoots that you want to do