Ms_Samantha_Marie wrote:
So Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Curt Cobain, Janis Joplin, etc. that all had known drug problems, that died from drug use at the age of 27 were all uncaring & selfish in their deaths too.
(rhetorical question of course.)

What fascinates me is how many people compare drug deaths then to drug deaths now. The culture and attitudes surrounding drug use then were very different. But nobody accounts for that now. They just praise them like their gods all the same.

Mnemosyne Photography wrote:

What fascinates me is how many people compare drug deaths then to drug deaths now. The culture and attitudes surrounding drug use then were very different. But nobody accounts for that now. They just praise them like their gods all the same.

It's funny to me how people dehumanize drug addicts today. Amy Winehouse had very raw and real MENTAL issues. She has been hospitalized, she has been to rehab, and she had been institutionalized (in psych wards) several times. THAT was the pressing issue. Sure the drug addiction was the most deadly, but it was merely a symptom of her ultimate problem.

She may have died as a result of her drug use (which still hasn't been confirmed), but does that take back her multi-platinum sales? Her 5 Grammys? Her amazing music? No. She has fans and people who still love her. In death, we are going to remember her best (and even her worst which helped contribute to her wonderful art.) It reminds me of another favorite artist of mine, Alexander McQueen. I will never vilify someone for being truly unable to handle the stress that life can throw at you, especially if you've suffered through traumas.

Mnemosyne Photography wrote:
You expect me to believe that if I died tomorrow, you would magically celebrate my wonderful characteristics?

If you have any, yes.

Because that's the decent, respectful thing to do. Sure, everybody has issues, but when they've just died it's not appropriate to start vilifying them for whatever bad traits you believe they had.

She was talented, she was messed up and now, sadly, she's died. Can't we just leave it at that and try to remember the good things she gave us rather than ghoulishly raking over the shit?


Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Mnemosyne Photography wrote:
You expect me to believe that if I died tomorrow, you would magically celebrate my wonderful characteristics?

Stefano Brunesci wrote:
If you have any, yes.

{snicker}

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
It's funny to me how people dehumanize drug addicts today.

It's funny how you all keep saying that. Even though I never dehumanized her. My whole argument is that I hate the use of the word "disease" as an excuse for addiction, and that I hate people who ignore someone's bad traits, just because they were "talented."

Forgive me for not kissing the ground she walked on, because she had a few popular songs 5 years ago. I didn't realize when someone died, I had to automatically like them because everyone else did.

Saying someone made the wrong choice, is NOT dehumanizing. Dehumanizing is saying "good riddance" to her, which I have NEVER said. Or even hinted at.

And by trying to shut up anyone who disagrees with you, aren't you doing the same thing you accuse us of doing? Taking away our right to speak against something? By calling us cruel, heartless, etc, aren't you doing the EXACT same thing that you are chastising use for?

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
Amy Winehouse had very raw and real MENTAL issues. She has been hospitalized, she has been to rehab, and she had been institutionalized (in psych wards) several times. THAT was the pressing issue. Sure the drug addiction was the most deadly, but it was merely a symptom of her ultimate problem.

And you diagnosed this how?

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
She may have died as a result of her drug use (which still hasn't been confirmed), but does that take back her multi-platinum sales? Her 5 Grammys? Her amazing music? No. She has fans and people who still love her.

And so those Grammys and talent negate the fact that her death was likely NOT accidental?

Stefano Brunesci wrote:
If you have any, yes.

You're dehumanizing me.

Stefano Brunesci wrote:
Because that's the decent, respectful thing to do. Sure, everybody has issues, but when they've just died it's not appropriate to start vilifying them for whatever bad traits you believe they had.

BELIEVE? You think I'm GUESSING?

Stefano Brunesci wrote:
She was talented, she was messed up and now, sadly, she's died. Can't we just leave it at that and try to remember the good things she gave us rather than ghoulishly raking over the shit?

Yes, let's ignore the rampant drug addiction, so we can celebrate them and teach future generations that drug addiction is ok, as long as you're talented at something, and no one will remember it. WONDERFUL example.

I mean, she had a song that LITERALLY gave the finger to people trying to help her, and rehab, and getting healthy. And now we're supposed to worship her?

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
{snicker}

Interesting Shon. I don't recall laughing at you for anything you said so far. Way to take the high road.

Mnemosyne Photography wrote:
My whole argument is that I hate the use of the word "disease" as an excuse for addiction, and that I hate people who ignore someone's bad traits, just because they were "talented."

Addictions (no matter how they are labeled) are medical issues. You are just arguing semantics.

Although the Centers for Disease Control2 website mentions that excessive alcohol use is the third-leading lifestyle related cause of death in the U.S., neither alcoholism or addiction appears in their list of diseases.

In October of 2008, as part of the Economic Recovery Act, a provision to require insurance companies to treat “substance abuse disorders” in the same manner as chronic physical diseases passed the U.S. Congress. This marked a large step forward for the idea of addiction as a disease, if not medically, at least legislatively.

The National Institute on Drug Abuse does refer to addiction as a ‘brain disease’. Interestingly, a 2006 suggested name change for the organization to: National Institute for the Disease of Addiction did not occur when legislation failed to pass the House in 2007.

http://www.myaddiction.com/education/ar … sease.html

http://www.medical-online.com/addict.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_model_of_addiction

http://archives.drugabuse.gov/about/wel … icdisease/

Mnemosyne Photography wrote:
Yes, let's ignore the rampant drug addiction, so we can celebrate them and teach future generations that drug addiction is ok, as long as you're talented at something, and no one will remember it. WONDERFUL example.

Where did I say ANY of that?

All I'm saying is that it's not decent or respectful to speak ill of the dead, especially so soon after the event.

Yes, of course, we all know that drugs are bad etc. etc. - nobody's celebrating drug addiction here. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Amy was a very talented singer and songwriter, as indeed were many others who died, sadly, from their addictions.

Have a little respect and humanity in the face of somebody's untimely death - is that really too much to ask?



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Mnemosyne Photography wrote:

Funny. You have a beef against me, so a simple accident, in your mind, is a deliberate attempt at something?

You'll have to do better than make up your complaints.

No what's pathetic and not funny, is people turning something in to an argument simply because they want to put the other person in their place because they just don't like them. So if that was your plan, then you are just wrong. So wrong.

Me telling you that spelling her name wrong repeatedly in your lame attempt at humor has nothing to do with what I think of you as a human being -- it does however make you look pathetic and mean.

And yeah it's weak -- is that the best you can do?

I rarely address you because frankly you're not worth it -- I hope when you die people are as empathetic as you have been here.

I don't need to tell you what you are because your words and actions reveal who you are better than I could ever begin to express.

Have a wonderful Sunday.

SPS_Photography wrote:
And just like that, Amy Winehouse is no longer trending on Twitter.

Most are going to be over it by tomorrow, as is the case in all but the most notorious deaths.

Then after a period of latency, she'll be elevated to legacy fame like all the other productive but short-lived singers who died at their own hand or otherwise.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:

It's funny to me how people dehumanize drug addicts today. Amy Winehouse had very raw and real MENTAL issues. She has been hospitalized, she has been to rehab, and she had been institutionalized (in psych wards) several times. THAT was the pressing issue. Sure the drug addiction was the most deadly, but it was merely a symptom of her ultimate problem.

She may have died as a result of her drug use (which still hasn't been confirmed), but does that take back her multi-platinum sales? Her 5 Grammys? Her amazing music? No. She has fans and people who still love her. In death, we are going to remember her best (and even her worst which helped contribute to her wonderful art.) It reminds me of another favorite artist of mine, Alexander McQueen. I will never vilify someone for being truly unable to handle the stress that life can throw at you, especially if you've suffered through traumas.

well said

Enrapture Photography wrote:
I know a lot of comments here seem cold, but that's life. Everybody responds differently and everyone has a different attitude about life in general. What does bother me about her passing is that it was avoidable. She chose to refuse help. She glamorized her lifestyle. My only hope is that those who idolized and looked up to her see that her choices were wrong. While I haven't seen an official cause of death, her lifestyle will most certainly have attributed to her early end.

Poor lifestyle choices have cut short many lives, but when it is a celebrity whose life was lost it becomes a very polarizing issue. The most recent example is Ryan Dunn. True, the cause of death is different, but the lifestyle he maintained is to blame. Again, he too died well before his time.

Both of these deaths have prompted threads in which people showed sadness, empathy, anger, and disgust. My point is, you can't fault somebody for being saddened, angered, or indifferent. I know who Ryan and Amy are, but their death means nothing to me and their fate was written long ago. What about Charlie Sheen? If he is found dead next week from an overdose will you be saddened or angry? he has been offered help time after time.

Again, I'm not trying to be cold, I am simply pointing out that it is OK for people to express their feelings (positive or negative). This isn't a tribute or memorial thread, just a discussion. I was crushed when Chris Farley passed away. On paper, his passing is similar but I had a different connection to him.

Here is the previous discussion on Ryan Dunn:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 612&page=1

That's all very well, but to say she glamorized drug abuse is not at all true...have you SEEN pictures of her walking around ike every other person in public? Paparazzi wait outside her door in Camden in London whilst she's vacuuming the house and comes out to go to the local shops to get groceries. Sometimes she' a bit worse for wear She didn't make anything look particularly glamorous in that regard,

Arun Phillips wrote:
Hey, did you enjoy your afternoon in the sun? you know that golden glowing thingy in the sky that we sometimes see here in UK!

I've actually enjoyed following Amy's antics on a site of similar name for the past few years, and I'll miss the entertainment. Although I went through a period of being an ardent fan, I've also been drawn into the "trainwreck" aspect.

My favorite was the "Cinderella incident" in 2009.

SPS_Photography wrote:
And just like that, Amy Winehouse is no longer trending on Twitter.

Twitter has a time limit on how long a topic can trend.

rp_photo wrote:

I've actually enjoyed following Amy's antics on a site of similar name for the past few years, and I'll miss the entertainment. Although I went through a period of being an ardent fan, I've also been drawn into the "trainwreck" aspect.

My favorite was the "Cinderella incident" in 2009.

personally I am not the sort of person that seeks out or enjoys reading about others misfortunes ( celebrity or not ) I just listened to her music , appreciated her unique talents and wondered / worried how long she would be able to continue