Forums > Model Colloquy > Dangerous or something else?

Photographer

Crazy Old Guy

Posts: 291

Richland, Washington, US

I wonder if when directing models for facial expression I might be better off giving directions like "Look Dangerous" couragous, vulnerable, strong, insecure, confident, sultry, rather than coming up with a scenario about why they have the look on their countenance or failing to direct and just shooting whatever emotion the Model tosses out.

When you are Modeling, what kind of direction do you feel creates the best atmosphere for the shoot and the best opportunity for great images?

Give specific examples of a single direction you were given that was good.

If the direction was for something other than an emotion that's good as well. If the direction was "Take a deep breath and sigh." share.

May 03 12 01:21 pm Link

Model

K I C K H A M

Posts: 14689

Los Angeles, California, US

I would try simple first, if it isn't working, then maybe get a little more complex.

Generally, I find that after a few minutes (on a GOOD shoot), there is a flow and little is said.

"I don't like it."
"Try a little softer with you face."
even "left arm," if something is weird with my pose.
"Nice."


I never think the pictures turn out as well when directed frame by frame. (with few exceptions, like a super-conceptual shoot where we are trying hard to get one specific shot.)

May 03 12 01:25 pm Link

Photographer

Crazy Old Guy

Posts: 291

Richland, Washington, US

Yeah, I was not considering a frame by frame directing style. Generally more like "Look (insert adjective)" then a new direction a few minutes later. Unless the shoot is all a singular goal.

May 03 12 01:30 pm Link

Photographer

Camerosity

Posts: 5805

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

Before the shoot (sometimes weeks before the shoot) I start talking with the model about genre (singular or plural) for the shoot. From genre we go to concept. From concept to wardrobe, mood, etc. We exchange images or links to images that convey look and feel, because words are subject to interpretation (or misinterpretation).

By the time of the shoot, we should know why we're there, what we're doing and in what order.

I go over these things again at the beginning of the shoot.

Once the shooting begins, in most cases, direction is minimal.

Frame-by-frame direction is only needed with a brand new model – and not always with them. Frame-by-frame direction is more like a portrait sitting than a model shoot.

As I see it, there is a natural division of responsibility. The photographer conveys the look and feel that he (or the client) wants. The model models. The photographer shoots and gives minimal direction when needed.

If you’re working with an experienced model, just tell her what the job is. You don’t have to tell her how to do the job.

Here are the stages of modeling as I see them.

Stage 1 – Deer in the headlights. Maybe 30-40 percent of models go through this stage, and for most it’s over before the end of the first shoot.

Stage 2 – Tell me what to do. The model needs to be posed one part at a time. “Relax your hands. You don’t want your fingers splayed like that. More your left hand a few inches toward your waist. Tilt your head to your left. No, your other left...”

It’s difficult to get photos that look relaxed and natural (let alone unposed) at this stage.

Stage 3 – Canned poses. The model learns a few canned poses and cycles through them at each shoot.

Stage 4 – Modeling in motion. The model starts with a pose and makes 1-2 small, incremental changes after each exposure. An incremental change (often accompanied by a change in expression) might be moving one or both arms, changing the position of her legs and feet, turning or tilting her head. The list is endless… and the model can strike a theoretically unlimited number of poses.

At this stage, the model knows what works with poses. She can “feel” a good pose and falls into good poses instinctively.

The objective is for the model and photographer to be in sync and in rapport so that things can just flow. Direction at this stage might require 1-4 words. Long dissertations break the flow – or prevent it from developing at all.

Shooting a set may begin fairly slow (6-7 poses per minute). When everyone is in sync, it may increase to 12-15 ppm. The fastest I’ve experienced was about 20 ppm (once), based on the time stamps on the image files.

Since I raise the camera up to focus on the model’s nearest  eye before each shot, then frame the shot (sometimes while zooming in or out), and since the strobes (on less than full power) have to recycle, that’s about the highest speed that’s practical.

The objective is not speed. The objective is to have the rapport and sync that allow things to flow. The rapport and the flow are the important things. You don’t even have to get to 10-15 ppm. You just have to let things flow.

These speeds don’t happen with every model, every set or every shoot. Maybe once or twice per hour of actual shooting time. When they do occur, they last maybe a minute at the most. That is the climax of the set. If you don’t have the shot by then, you’re not likely to get it.

After that, you let the camera dump the images from the buffer to the memory card, regroup, move to another spot (if you’re on location), shoot the next look or pull out the release for the model to sign and call it a day.

Once the model masters Stage 4, she can put her body on autopilot and focus on facial expressions.

Stage 5 – Mastery of Stage 4, plus the ability to give good expressions that are consistent with the concept, setting, mood (including lighting, etc.) and purpose of the shoot, time after time.

Obviously a model who is at Stage 5 is very skilled.

I can get more and better images with a model who's at Stage 4 or 5 in five minutes (and sometimes in a minute) than with a model who's at Stage 1 or 2 in an hour.

Frame-by-frame direction is for Stage 2 modeling – whether the model is capable of a higher level or not.

There is a place for Stage 2 modeling - when you're going for something that's extremely specific or shooting to match an art director's sketch exactly. But most of the time that's not what you want.

May 03 12 02:21 pm Link

Model

Axioma

Posts: 6822

Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium

I usually prefer to get some autonomy when shooting (unless it's something super conceptual/one complex shot). You booked me to do my job, so some freedom will get me in the right flow. However slight adjustments like the angle for the face or bodyposition can make all the difference between a good and a great shot, so things like that are great when pointed out. Otherwise just a general idea of mood and expressions beforehand or a general description/story order is all I really need.

Example: "We're going for a very natural, girly look. no contrived angular poses or angry/arrogant faces. start in this corner and then slowly walk towards there, you can play with wardrobe a little" > then shoot!

Between shots: "chin more up/down", "turn a bit further away with your body away from the lens", "relax shoulders".

If it's something you especially like and want me to work further with: "YES!", "play with that"

May 03 12 02:27 pm Link

Model

Mizz Amanda Marie

Posts: 1579

Valparaiso, Indiana, US

Camerosity wrote:
Before the shoot (sometimes weeks before the shoot) I start talking with the model about genre (singular or plural) for the shoot. From genre we go to concept. From concept to wardrobe, mood, etc. We exchange images or links to images that convey look and feel, because words are subject to interpretation (or misinterpretation).

By the time of the shoot, we should know why we're there, what we're doing and in what order.

I go over these things again at the beginning of the shoot.

Once the shooting begins, in most cases, direction is minimal.

Frame-by-frame direction is only needed with a brand new model – and not always with them. Frame-by-frame direction is more like a portrait sitting than a model shoot.

As I see it, there is a natural division of responsibility. The photographer conveys the look and feel that he (or the client) wants. The model models. The photographer shoots and gives minimal direction when needed.

If you’re working with an experienced model, just tell her what the job is. You don’t have to tell her how to do the job.

Here are the stages of modeling as I see them.

Stage 1 – Deer in the headlights. Maybe 30-40 percent of models go through this stage, and for most it’s over before the end of the first shoot.

Stage 2 – Tell me what to do. The model needs to be posed one part at a time. “Relax your hands. You don’t want your fingers splayed like that. More your left hand a few inches toward your waist. Tilt your head to your left. No, your other left...”

It’s difficult to get photos that look relaxed and natural (let alone unposed) at this stage.

Stage 3 – Canned poses. The model learns a few canned poses and cycles through them at each shoot.

Stage 4 – Modeling in motion. The model starts with a pose and makes 1-2 small, incremental changes after each exposure. An incremental change (often accompanied by a change in expression) might be moving one or both arms, changing the position of her legs and feet, turning or tilting her head. The list goes is endless… and the model can strike a theoretically unlimited number of poses.

At this stage, the model knows what works with poses. She can “feel” a good pose and falls into good poses instinctively.

The objective is for the model and photographer to be in sync and in rapport so that things can just flow. Direction at this stage might require 1-4 words. Long dissertations break the flow – or prevent it from developing at all.

Shooting a set may begin fairly slow (6-7 poses per minute). When everyone is in sync, it may increase to 12-15 ppm. The fastest I’ve experienced was about 20 ppm (once), based on the time stamps on the image files.

Since I raise the camera up to focus on the model’s nearest  eye before each shot, then frame the shot (sometimes after zooming in or out), and since the strobes (on less than full power) have to recycle, that’s about the highest speed that’s practical.

The objective is not speed. The objective is to have the rapport and sync that allow things to flow. The rapport and the flow are the important things. You don’t even have to get to 10-15 ppm. You just have to let things flow.

These speeds don’t happen with every model, every set or even every shoot. Maybe once or twice per hour of actual shooting time. When they do occur, they last maybe a minute at the most. That is the climax of the set. If you don’t have the shot by then, you’re not likely to get it.

After that, you let the camera dump the images from the buffer to the memory card, regroup, move to another spot (if you’re on location), shoot the next look or pull out the release for the model to sign and call it a day.

Once the model masters Stage 4, she can put her body on autopilot and focus on facial expressions.

Stage 5 – Mastery of Stage 4, plus the ability to give good expressions that are consistent with the concept, setting, mood (including lighting, etc.) and purpose of the shoot, time after time.

Obviously a model who is at Stage 5 is very skilled.

I can get more and better images of a model who's at Stage 4 or 5 in five minutes (and sometimes in a minute) than with a model who's at Stage 1 or 2 in an hour.

Frame-by-frame direction is Stage 2 modeling – whether the model is capable of a higher level or not.

There is a place for Stage 2 modeling - when you're going for something that's extremely specific or shooting to match an art director's sketch exactly. But most of the time that's not what you want.

Freaking brilliant post, man.
I think you've got it spot on.

And, this, ladies and gentlemen, is the value in hiring an experienced model; get what you're going for quicker and perhaps better than you imagined it in the first place.
Winsauce.

May 05 12 08:09 pm Link

Model

Mea Culpa

Posts: 353

Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

Mini_ wrote:
I usually prefer to get some autonomy when shooting (unless it's something super conceptual/one complex shot). You booked me to do my job, so some freedom will get me in the right flow. However slight adjustments like the angle for the face or bodyposition can make all the difference between a good and a great shot, so things like that are great when pointed out. Otherwise just a general idea of mood and expressions beforehand or a general description/story order is all I really need.

Example: "We're going for a very natural, girly look. no contrived angular poses or angry/arrogant faces. start in this corner and then slowly walk towards there, you can play with wardrobe a little" > then shoot!

Between shots: "chin more up/down", "turn a bit further away with your body away from the lens", "relax shoulders".

If it's something you especially like and want me to work further with: "YES!", "play with that"

THIS

If someone started saying things to me like: "You are Queen Sheba, trekking through the desert with your caravan. It is hot, and your camel stinks. You want a  bath, and the thought of cool luscious water on your hot, sweaty olive skin makes you shiver in anticipation... feel the shiver, but be uncomfortable, camel stink offending your delicate queenly nostrils." I would get creeped out.

May 06 12 01:27 am Link

Photographer

Camerosity

Posts: 5805

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

Mea Culpa wrote:
If someone started saying things to me like: "You are Queen Sheba, trekking through the desert with your caravan. It is hot, and your camel stinks. You want a  bath, and the thought of cool luscious water on your hot, sweaty olive skin makes you shiver in anticipation... feel the shiver, but be uncomfortable, camel stink offending your delicate queenly nostrils." I would get creeped out.

Remind me not to book you for the upcoming Sheba shoot.

Just kidding... smile

May 06 12 02:04 am Link

Photographer

Camerosity

Posts: 5805

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

By the way, "Tilt your head to your left. No, your other left...”, from my post above, is a bit misleading. I try to avoid using left-right or cardinal directions, because both of us have to stop and think.

I'm more likley to say "move closer to the car" - or use my left hand to gesture directions. Saves time, and no translation is required.

May 06 12 02:28 am Link

Model

Mea Culpa

Posts: 353

Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

tongue

Camerosity wrote:
I'm more likley to say "move closer to the car" - or use my left hand to gesture directions. Saves time, and no translation is required.

Just a small comment: I am almost blind during a shoot, since I prefer not to wear contact lenses as they just cause too much eye irritation. I can see a hazy photographer shape, the lights, and a dark camera blob, but everything else is an undefinable blur. I ask photographers not to use gestures to direct me, or refer to objects besides the lights or camera to look at,  because I cannot see them at all. A clear loud direction is hugely appreciated.

May 06 12 02:37 am Link

Photographer

B R U N E S C I

Posts: 25319

Bath, England, United Kingdom

I put on loud music, yell and make noises to convey the emotion I'm looking for.

Anybody outside the studio might think something very odd was going on, but it works for me!




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

May 06 12 03:09 am Link

Model

Anna Adrielle

Posts: 18763

Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium

I like moodboards for this reason smile. It gives me a better idea about how to pose and what kind of emotion to portray than any kind of direction. "example" pictures are also okay.

May 06 12 03:10 am Link

Photographer

Camerosity

Posts: 5805

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

Mea Culpa wrote:
tongue


Just a small comment: I am almost blind during a shoot, since I prefer not to wear contact lenses as they just cause too much eye irritation. I can see a hazy photographer shape, the lights, and a dark camera blob, but everything else is an undefinable blur. I ask photographers not to use gestures to direct me, or refer to objects besides the lights or camera to look at,  because I cannot see them at all. A clear loud direction is hugely appreciated.

Understood.

One of the best llamas I've worked with (my avatar) is legally blind. But she is a mind-reader. She requires almost zero direction.

May 06 12 03:15 am Link

Photographer

A-M-P

Posts: 18465

Orlando, Florida, US

I say things like pretend you are gasping for air etc it works

May 06 12 03:20 am Link

Photographer

Photographe

Posts: 2351

Bristol, England, United Kingdom

As people mentioned, voice is the strongest and most effective tool available.

Assuming the model has average sight, demonstrations often work better. It's not so great to tell people, when you have the opportunity to actually show them.

Also I find it better to imply something than directly request it.

But above all it requires some patience and very small adjustments. If you are not careful the model becomes overloaded, exhausted and feels defeated. If they are working hard and you aren't capturing it, then perhaps your communication or relating to people needs re-assessment.

May 06 12 03:38 am Link

Photographer

Kent Art Photography

Posts: 3588

Ashford, England, United Kingdom

I find "You really ought to get in the gym more,"  works.

Coming from a fat, old, balding, ugly man, it usually elicits an interesting response.

May 06 12 03:39 am Link

Model

RETIRED 2019

Posts: 13

Arena, Wisconsin, US

Lots of great examples already have been stated so the only thing I could add is that it depends on the dynamic between myself and the photographer.  I've worked with some who can't articulate what they are looking for, but can show me images of what they are looking for.  I've worked with others who have no images, but can put it into words. 

I normally wear glasses and contacts just irritate my eyes, so my vision is fuzzy often during shoots.  I also have a hard time hearing when there is a lot of background noise (lights, fans, music, etc), so I like to hammer out what it expected beforehand and take corrective instruction as we go, if needed.

Communication is key.

May 06 12 05:31 am Link

Model

Dekilah

Posts: 5236

Dearborn, Michigan, US

I like being given an emotion and can usually go with that. If I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you want, then a scenario might be helpful. There are also specific expressions some people like and in that case things like "take a deep breathe" or whatnot can be useful.

Generally, I do like feedback. I cannot see myself and I cannot see through the lens to understand your angle, so what I think looks great, may not look so good from your standpoint or the other way around. If you like what I am doing, tell me so. If it is is not working, tell me that too (though you may have to be gentle with this with some models). Saying things like: "I really like that" or "Hold that for a couple shots" or "Can we change it up a bit?" are all fine.

May 06 12 01:39 pm Link