ShivaKitty wrote:
Even the actual process of working as model requires money, just to get to and from shoots. A full-time model is often driving 300-500 miles per week, sometimes much more than that. How do you think the models are able to get to you? It costs.

my point was not directed to the traveling models.

rather I don't see a point to use traveling models in the cities like mine with roughly million people, 5 big universities and a lot of colleges and campuses.

there is huge amount of actors, dancers and other talents shooting for exchange. not to mention fashion designers, body painters.

I realize that quantity is not equal quality. 

I see a lot of local opportunities here. I can travel NYC or Eastern Europe and better fit any tiny budget.

I don't get this idea of traveling models at all. At least not at  the scale it is right now.

I respect what you doing. But something is really wrong in the industry in general.

People just got used to the way things are. There are much better ways.
For all. It should not be survivalism. Why?!

Christie Gabriel wrote:

He'd give ya more than that I bet. You could probably talk him into giving you a web-sized photo of i don't know...perhaps a ridiculous stuffed animal staring at your clitoris. Isn't that well worth the expenses you'd accrue right there?

oooh baby,  talk trade to me!  it gets me sooo hot! lol

Art of the nude wrote:

I'm open to shooting with you in exchange for a pat on the back.  And maybe even pictures.

you're such a tease

Dan OMell wrote:
I don't get this idea of traveling models at all. At least not at  the scale it is right now.

To some degree, it's a cult of personality. A lot of the people who booked me, when I was actively working, they wanted to shoot ME -- not someone who looked like me, but ME, because I marketed myself in such a way that gave me a very specific online persona.

It's a type of branding. You create a persona for yourself, and a hype, that makes people feel like you are something good, and worth their money.

Like with any sales job. Part of the job is adding value to the product. In modeling, you promote the idea that your persona is the product. People buy YOU, as a product. You add a certain flavor of yourself and your personality to the work you are creating with them, and they will pay for that stylistic addition.

Dan OMell wrote:
But something is really wrong in the industry in general.

You said it yourself. It's an industry. Industries grow, change, and shift with trends and culture. We're at a different place now that we were even 6 years ago, back when I was still somewhat new to it all. Maybe you don't understand why the changes are happening, or what they are leading up to, but it's still ...an industry... just like it always was.

Dan OMell wrote:
People just got used to the way things are. There are much better ways.
For all. It should not be survivalism. Why?!

Huh? Maybe there are better ways for YOU. Your system might not work for everyone else.

Dan OMell wrote:

my point was not directed to the traveling models.

rather I don't see a point to use traveling models in the cities like mine with roughly million people, 5 big universities and a lot of colleges and campuses.

there is huge amount of actors, dancers and other talents shooting for exchange. not to mention fashion designers, body painters.

I realize that quantity is not equal quality. 

I see a lot of local opportunities here. I can travel NYC or Eastern Europe and better fit any tiny budget.

I don't get this idea of traveling models at all. At least not at  the scale it is right now.

I respect what you doing. But something is really wrong in the industry in general.

People just got used to the way things are. There are much better ways.
For all. It should not be survivalism. Why?!

And they fall further down the well of delusion

What way are things that people got use to ?
Models have been traveling since the industry began .
Seriously you are not making any sense.

Escalante wrote:

And they fall further down the well of delusion

What way are things that people got use to ?
Models have been traveling since the industry began .
Seriously you are not making any sense.

How do you even understand what he is trying to say?

P I X I E wrote:
Who the fuck are you to tell other people how to do their job or what to do with their money?

This.

And also-- Art is subjective. That's all I'm going to add here.

Brian Scanlon wrote:
That's because, for some models, it's about supplementing their income and not about the art.

+1

Art of the nude wrote:

I always compensate models.  Cash, images, lodging, pizza, whatever.  No idea what difference it makes to you.

I Love Pizza!

Jordan Bunniie wrote:
Why do you feel the need to come into the model forum saying we dont deserve to be paid?

+5

Do what you do. Don't try to make everyone else conform to your standards. That's just douchey

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
I'd pay Dean Johnson... but sadly I doubt if I could afford her rates

Everybody else gets pictures, and sometimes cookies and a place to stay too





Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

I Love Cookies!

Caitin   wrote:

I Love Cookies!

White Chocolate Macadamia?

I always have a stash of those 

Art Silva Photography wrote:

White Chocolate Macadamia?

I always have a stash of those 

OMG Chocolate and Macadamia? Makes My clothes fall off!

Christie Gabriel wrote:
perhaps a ridiculous stuffed animal staring at your clitoris.

That's Money in Asia.

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
I'd pay Dean Johnson... but sadly I doubt if I could afford her rates







Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

I wouldn't

Christie Gabriel wrote:

but I would pay Christie

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
I'd pay Dean Johnson... but sadly I doubt if I could afford her rates

Garry k wrote:
I wouldn't

There's a lesson here somewhere.

orias wrote:

you're such a tease

Darlin, I like you! You are on a ROLL!

What say, I pick you up, shoot you, and take you back home with a 30 Lbs Brisket in yer back pocket? You know how we Texans are.....Smoke anything that'll stay lit long enough! You are somethin' else.

Art of the nude wrote:

There's a lesson here somewhere.

~sees what you did there, giggles, and walks back out of trainwreck range~

r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay llamas please!

In case nobody has noticed, we're now on Page 4 and the troll....I mean, "OP" has bailed on his thread.

r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

You don't consider art as a work... good for you. It's not about whether you deem whatever your creating art or work. It's Time for Print... time. Some people think their time is worth more than yours for various reasons. The most important being what they are bringing to the table in experience and looks.

r4u wrote:
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

.  "please"?  You are begging other photographers not to hire models.  .

Why?

Art that is directed by someone else, to me, is work.
I do TF* when I want someone to photograph my ideas.

Caitin   wrote:
I think the next time I go to wal-mart For make up I will bring a sign that reads Will Nude Model for food! and wear a thong bikini!

BTW I do Love it when there are snacks and food at a shoot!

I am taking note of this... Maybe, you should pay for a flight to Buffalo and I will provide pizza wings cookies soda and after dinner mints at the shoot... Why pay a model when I can just feed one?

Melodye Joy wrote:
If you have a concept that YOU want for your portfolio, to submit to magazines, to submit to agencies, then YOU pay the llama THEIR services. Otherwise, the llama has input, can cancel last min, call off the whole thing, never show up, ect....

If I'm not paying a llama in cash, food, etc (only agreeing to share the images), I don't mind their having input as these are their compensation, too ... but can cancel at the last minute, not show up, etc?  Are you serious?

  It sounds like what you're saying is that unless there is something other than images to be traded, a llama doesn't have to be a person of their word.  In other words, if we agree to a TF shoot and I drive more than an hour to get to their city (even having to pay a bridge toll), pay to park, pay for ... pay for ... pay for ... and maybe even rent a studio to shoot in ... it's okay for the llama to just not show up because we *agreed* to shoot TF?

  I'm of the opinion that it's not okay for anyone to just not show up.  Having to cancel at the last minute is bad enough.  Grandma dies a few times each year and all ... but the real reason is because there is no cash changing hands?  I think I have officially heard everything.

Melodye Joy wrote:
Otherwise, the model has input, can cancel last min, call off the whole thing, never show up, ect....

? I think my experience and thousands of dollars of equipment are worth a lot. Doesn't matter if they don't care. Its a fact! There will always be those that pay and thats good for them. I found out that if my offers are good enough models will come. It could be at the studio or nice resort area or at a local group meet. I have plenty of work.

Bill Tracy Photography wrote:
If you are giving them images from the shoot, guess what...  you ARE paying them.

Define giving images? 5 800x533 poorly edited? Or several choice images in raw with a photographers release?