Photographer
Brooks Ayola
Posts: 9754
Chatsworth, California, US
I don't think it's news that our school system has failed us.
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
Swank Photography wrote:
 I just spit my coffee out reading this
Oh lordie this thread is a hot mess in several areas!
I have to agree though with several photographers about height and nudes, etc.
A lot of short models are actually quite limited in whatever form of "modeling career" they dream of, so yes, promotional modeling (doing shows, etc.) and nudes are often the way to go and appear to be (at times) more profitable.
Now if that pisses anyone off in here then tough.
Unless you are agency material then you're chances of making a living is null pretty much.
Myself, I love shooting nude models actually. There is something very beautiful and sensual about the human body surrounded by nature.
I also do not see anything "degrading" or "stooping" about a model posing nude. Quoted for goodness.
Photographer
Decay of Memory
Posts: 682
Asheville, North Carolina, US
Hey, can all of you bunch of downers get on to telling the op "what you can conceive and believe, you can achieve". All this talk about things you have to do is making modelling seem like work.
Model
Saedcantas
Posts: 445
Saint Saviour, Saint Saviour, United Kingdom
Post in the critique portfolio if you really want to improve your marketability.
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US
Eh, a lot of people on here are saying that if you want to get paid, then do nudes, but personally, I've come across several models willing to do nudes on a TF basis, so I really don't know if that's a valid solution.
The truth is, with the internet, photography and modeling are very easy to come by. The supply has met the demand, in other words, so there's not a lot of money going either way, to photographers or models.
So if any model feels bad for not becoming rich, or even being able to make a living, off of what they do; take consolation in the fact that a lot of the photographers aren't either.
I should correct that and say that the supply has really EXCEEDED the demand.
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US
Saedcantas wrote:
Post in the critique portfolio if you really want to improve your marketability. The critique forum is only useful for pitiful masochists who want to hear everything that's wrong with them and what they do.
Photographer
Leonard Gee Photography
Posts: 18096
Sacramento, California, US
It seems there is an assumption that if you network hard and do whatever it takes, you can get more paid work. But unfortunately, like any job, that may not be true. You must have something that a client wants to pay you for first.
If you want to play basketball, you must have the ability, skills and some understanding of the game and strategy to fit the level you want to play. Without those things, you can just play pick-up games for fun. The worst case, if you have no ability, is that no one wants you on their team.
So in modeling, you can play a "model" for fun, but making money means not only networking/marketing, but you must have the look that fits the market. Without that, it just isn't going to work. Between the hobby photographers who may be great photographers and just have money to the professionals who can pay or the GWCs who just want pretty pictures, you still must offer something they will pay for - whatever it may be.
I know there are many people that are very determined. One person I know just didn't have the look, but she insisted she was going to make it. She even had the stats to get in an agency. But in three years, she only got one job - as a hand model. That was it. Very sad...
Model
Nicole Nu
Posts: 3981
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
R Byron Johnson wrote:
Eh, a lot of people on here are saying that if you want to get paid, then do nudes, but personally, I've come across several models willing to do nudes on a TF basis, so I really don't know if that's a valid solution. Just because models shoot TF nudes with photographers doesn't mean they aren't getting paid. The entire reason of shooting TF with people is to build up a portfolio good enough to get people to want to pay you.
Imagine someone asking you to pay them and they don't have the work to back it up. I'd laugh and tell them, "No thanks."
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US
NicoleNudes wrote:
Just because models shoot TF nudes with photographers doesn't mean they aren't getting paid. The entire reason of shooting TF with people is to build up a portfolio good enough to get people to want to pay you.
Imagine someone asking you to pay them and they don't have the work to back it up. I'd laugh and tell them, "No thanks." Oh for chrissake, you know what I mean.
Model
B R E N N A N
Posts: 4247
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
It seems there is an assumption that if you network hard and do whatever it takes, you can get more paid work. But unfortunately, like any job, that may not be true. You must have something that a client wants to pay you for first.
If you want to play basketball, you must have the ability, skills and some understanding of the game and strategy to fit the level you want to play. Without those things, you can just play pick-up games for fun. The worst case, if you have no ability, is that no one wants you on their team.
So in modeling, you can play a "model" for fun, but making money means not only networking/marketing, but you must have the look that fits the market. Without that, it just isn't going to work. Between the hobby photographers who may be great photographers and just have money to the professionals who can pay or the GWCs who just want pretty pictures, you still must offer something they will pay for - whatever it may be.
I know there are many people that are very determined. One person I know just didn't have the look, but she insisted she was going to make it. She even had the stats to get in an agency. But in three years, she only got one job - as a hand model. That was it. Very sad... Some of the best advice in this thread.
Photographer
SG-4 Photography
Posts: 129
Washington, District of Columbia, US
natural beauties of qld wrote:
It really is very elementary.
If you want to shoot what a client wants to shoot, you have a chance of getting paid.
However, if you want the luxury of shooting only what you want to shoot, you need to be prepared to pay for the privilege or at least shoot for trade. Elementary and very simplistically profound.
Ditto.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8095
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
R Byron Johnson wrote:
Eh, a lot of people on here are saying that if you want to get paid, then do nudes, but personally, I've come across several models willing to do nudes on a TF basis, so I really don't know if that's a valid solution. There will always be people who will do things for free. The point is, there are WAY more many models who will only do clothed shoots and will do them for free than there are nude models who will pose nude for free. From there, it's supply and demand. The demand for free clothed models is always going to be high, but so is the supply. The demand for nude models is exceptionally high but the supply is very low, so a model will have an easier time getting work (if she's good) as a nude model than she will, by default, a clothed model.
Photographer
RBM Photo
Posts: 557
Bellbrook, Ohio, US
B R E N N A N wrote:
Sweet Jesus dickfeathers, stop posting. This whole thread was worth it just for that! Now I'm going to run around saying "sweet Jesus dickfeathers" all day. After I stop laughing . . .
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
RBM Photo wrote:
This whole thread was worth it just for that! Now I'm going to run around saying "sweet Jesus dickfeathers" all day. After I stop laughing . . . Brennan is the best. 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
natural beauties of qld wrote:
It really is very elementary.
If you want to shoot what a client wants to shoot, you have a chance of getting paid.
However, if you want the luxury of shooting only what you want to shoot, you need to be prepared to pay for the privilege or at least shoot for trade. Seems so basic, yet it's so lost on so many models. You and Laura nailed it (among others).
Listen OP, none of us have a dog in this fight. Nothing that is said here is a personal slight and I'm getting a bit of a defensive vibe when nudity for pay has been mentioned.
What that says to me is that you want to get paid but you don't want to do what it takes to actually get paid. Instead, you want the client to change their demands. That's not how it works in any industry.
If you don't want to pose nude, that's fine. Many don't. But if you're asking what's my best opportunity for getting paid, that's it for a 5'2", 120 lb, 28 year old model whose style seems limited to alt/cosplay/costume content.
How about paying for someone who brings awesome? Yes, many of us do that all the time. But "awesome" is defined by the client or photographer...not just because the model thinks she's awesome and shouldn't "have to get nude to get paid." Awesome isn't unique in modeling. Every agency is filled with awesome models who are 5'9"+, 18 years old and marketable. MM is filled with awesome models who fill both those requirements as well as the Art/Glamour Nude genre
If you're looking to make a statement and persist with the mentality that MM Photographer's should change their mindset, that's fine as well, nobody should ever do something they don't want, or believe in, but you have to face reality that you aren't likely to be paid. If you want to get paid, you have to offer the client what they want. That's just rudimentary economics.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
B R E N N A N wrote:
Sweet Jesus dickfeathers, stop posting. I've learned a valuable lesson today. Never, ever, read the first page of posts and then hit "reply". As in this case, there can be absolute GOLD in those posts.
You will now have scores of people using this phrase. I can't wait to use this.
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
M Pandolfo Photography wrote:
Seems so basic, yet it's so lost on so many models. You and Laura nailed it (among others).
Listen OP, none of us have a dog in this fight. Nothing that is said here is a personal slight and I'm getting a bit of a defensive vibe when nudity for pay has been mentioned.
What that says to me is that you want to get paid but you don't want to do what it takes to actually get paid. Instead, you want the client to change their demands. That's not how it works in any industry.
If you don't want to pose nude, that's fine. Many don't. But if you're asking what's my best opportunity for getting paid, that's it for a 5'2", 120 lb, 28 year old model whose style seems limited to alt/cosplay/costume content.
How about paying for someone who brings awesome? Yes, many of us do that all the time. But "awesome" is defined by the client or photographer...not just because the model thinks she's awesome and shouldn't "have to get nude to get paid." Awesome isn't unique in modeling. Every agency is filled with awesome models who are 5'9"+, 18 years old and marketable. MM is filled with awesome models who fill both those requirements as well as the Art/Glamour Nude genre
If you're looking to make a statement and persist with the mentality that MM Photographer's should change their mindset, that's fine as well, nobody should ever do something they don't want, or believe in, but you have to face reality that you aren't likely to be paid. If you want to get paid, you have to offer the client what they want. That's just rudimentary economics. Precisely. Nobody is demanding anybody get nude, OP. If you can't, you can't. There are nude models on MM I would beg and pay them to keep their clothes on.
"Sweet Jesus dickfeathers, please don't get naked!"
It's simply a mixture of sad and amusing when aspiring models think they're somehow a Special Snowflake and automatically should be paid for whatever they want to do. If you can find a way to get paid for what you enjoy, that's terrific - But that's not usually how life works. We get paid to do less enjoyable things, hard work, or for supplying something that isn't freely available.
Otherwise, I would get paid handsomely for jacking off, sleeping in late, and eating ice cream. 
Unfortunately...
![https://cdn.hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sweet-Brown.jpg]()
Ain't nobody gonna pay for that.
Photographer
Square Jaw Photography
Posts: 470
Joshua Tree, California, US
KonstantKarma wrote:
Precisely. Nobody is demanding anybody get nude, OP. If you can't, you can't. There are nude models on MM I would beg and pay them to keep their clothes on.
"Sweet Jesus dickfeathers, please don't get naked!"
It's simply a mixture of sad and amusing when aspiring models think they're somehow a Special Snowflake and automatically should be paid for whatever they want to do. If you can find a way to get paid for what you enjoy, that's terrific - But that's not usually how life works. We get paid to do less enjoyable things, hard work, or for supplying something that isn't freely available.
Otherwise, I would get paid handsomely for jacking off, sleeping in late, and eating ice cream.
Unfortunately...
![https://cdn.hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sweet-Brown.jpg]()
Ain't nobody gonna pay for that. Now I hate random, fly-by friend requests, but your hilarious asshole nature appeals to me, as I have narrowly avoided crapping my pants several times by reading your responses. Also, your port reflects great talent and I am impressed. Not only will I friend request you, but I will keep an eye out for you on these forums!
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
Square Jaw Photography wrote:
Now I hate random, fly-by friend requests, but your hilarious asshole nature appeals to me, as I have narrowly avoided crapping my pants several times by reading your responses. Also, your port reflects great talent and I am impressed. Not only will I friend request you, but I will keep an eye out for you on these forums! I do what I can.
Thanks for serving.
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
There will always be people who will do things for free. The point is, there are WAY more many models who will only do clothed shoots and will do them for free than there are nude models who will pose nude for free. From there, it's supply and demand. The demand for free clothed models is always going to be high, but so is the supply. The demand for nude models is exceptionally high but the supply is very low, so a model will have an easier time getting work (if she's good) as a nude model than she will, by default, a clothed model. I'm sure that's true to a point. But honestly, that really hasn't been my experience. I only do TF shoots, and most of the models I've worked with have been willing to do nudity on that basis. I've noticed that the majority of models on this site put "no" on whether or not they're willing to do nudity, but I don't find most of my models from this site.
So I really don't think that the supply of nude models is anywhere near as low as you're saying they are. Certainly lower than with clothed models willing to do TF work, but not as much lower as some would think. Shit has changed. Nudity is not as taboo or "controversial" anymore; thus, more women are willing to do it....not just that, but more women ENJOY doing it. Being "naked on the internet" just isn't that big of a deal anymore.
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21526
Chicago, Illinois, US
KonstantKarma wrote:
Precisely. Nobody is demanding anybody get nude, OP. If you can't, you can't. There are nude llamas on MM I would beg and pay them to keep their clothes on.
"Sweet Jesus dickfeathers, please don't get naked!"
It's simply a mixture of sad and amusing when aspiring llamas think they're somehow a Special Snowflake and automatically should be paid for whatever they want to do. If you can find a way to get paid for what you enjoy, that's terrific - But that's not usually how life works. We get paid to do less enjoyable things, hard work, or for supplying something that isn't freely available.
Otherwise, I would get paid handsomely for jacking off, sleeping in late, and eating ice cream.
Unfortunately...
![https://cdn.hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sweet-Brown.jpg]()
Ain't nobody gonna pay for that. We need a forum for comedy gold and this belongs there!!! You and Pasha and a few more members deserve a forum.
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US
Simplest advice: If you want to make GOOD money, then DON'T try to be a model, or a photographer for that matter. Or, really, don't ever do anything creative at all if money is your goal, because the chances are very high that it's not gonna happen. Ever.
The only sure-fire way to make at least some money by doing something creative is to take all the creativity out of it and commercialize it. If a photographer only photographed what they wanted to (like I do), they most likely won't make a dime. The real money is in photographing things that OTHER people want you to. The same goes for modeling.
With anything creative, it almost always comes down to a choice of doing what you want to do and being a "starving artist" or doing what others want you to do and being a "sell out". That's just the reality of it.
Some manage to make a shitload of money doing what they want to do, but you should never count on that happening. In fact, many of those who fall into this category never really set-out to make lots of money in the first place, it was just a happy side-effect of doing what they wanted to do.
But seriously, check out the current top box office films, then checkout the current bestselling books, and then the top 10 music charts. The majority of people HATE creativity. They love dumb, commercialized, formulaic, junk-food-for-the-brain garbage. That's what's in demand, so if you want money, that's what you need to supply. I'd personally rather slit my own throat, but to each their own.
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US
However, you can take some comfort in the fact that, while yes, the majority of people who do creative things passionately never make much, if any, money doing it; it's likewise true that the majority of those who do manage to make decent enough money doing such things will inevitably just fade away and be forgotten.
While people do seem to favor formula over creative in the short-term, formula is disposable and forgettable, so creative always wins in the long-run.
Photographer
Marin Photo NYC
Posts: 7348
New York, New York, US
How to get more paid work?
BE AMAZING!
Model
SpanishDoll22
Posts: 154
Bakersfield, California, US
Kelley Nymph wrote:
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Do photographers only think it is worth it to pay a model if they get naked?
How about paying someone because they bring something AWESOME to the table, without the model, you have no shoot, buddy. Be careful lol injust finished a forum about a similar discussion. Not worth arguing about, you and I are better off at agencies unless we have something spectacular to bring to the table. Or unless we are willin to be open to nudes, another photographer told me earlier today why would someone pay a 5"4 model to do the same work they can get a taller local girl to do  I know sucks but there's some truth in it. I'm still working on my port, I get no replies back all the time. Unless they want to see me naked lol. But w strong and make your own decisions. Remember If your looking for a future in commercial or other or are worried what family may think then be careful what you put out there unless you don't mind it being seen.
Photographer
Marin Photo NYC
Posts: 7348
New York, New York, US
Without the model I am still a photographer! I shoot birds, planes, bugs, homes, hotels, weddings, parties, kids, I can go on........
Model
Daisy Fields
Posts: 148
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Arielle Laurito wrote:
MelissaAnn wrote:
Who are you responding to? You clearly don't even know how to use the "quote" feature in the forums.
Educate *yourself* before trying to give advice to others. You're making yourself look more and more foolish with every post.  They know who they are. I am not making myself look foolish. Shut up all of you I have the right to my opinion and if I want to give someone advise I will. This girl thinks she can silence the internet!
Kelley Nymph wrote:
You seem pretty full of yourself, just judging by your replies.
I have made money before, all by NOT taking my clothes off, so getting naked is not the only way to make money. I was simply asking about a advice on a good way to get MORE paid work. Luckily some people here actually gave me constructive responses, and I thank those who did. Arielle Laurito, I appreciate your say, even though this person is bashing you for being brave enough to say it.
Also, this is not "a forum full of nude models", it just happens that a lot of nude models happened to reply to this post.
I am not against anyone who does nudity, but I try to avoid having my naked body end up all over the internet because I have been trying to get into a government job. They tend to frown on things like that. And THIS girl has clearly never looked at Stefano's portfolio.
Photographer
Marin Photo NYC
Posts: 7348
New York, New York, US
Claire Brev wrote:
Arielle Laurito wrote:
MelissaAnn wrote:
Who are you responding to? You clearly don't even know how to use the "quote" feature in the forums.
Educate *yourself* before trying to give advice to others. You're making yourself look more and more foolish with every post. They know who they are. I am not making myself look foolish. Shut up all of you I have the right to my opinion and if I want to give someone advise I will. This girl thinks she can silence the internet!
And THIS girl has clearly never looked at Stefano's portfolio. Great thread I keep coming back to laugh some more!
Photographer
2Life Photography
Posts: 16
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Apparently I have no idea how to use the quote feature. I do know grammar, though 
Photographer
2Life Photography
Posts: 16
Phoenix, Arizona, US
DougBPhoto wrote:
Arielle Laurito wrote:
Just because I don't tell you how much money I've made doesn't mean I don't make any. I don't let random people know how much I make its kind of stupid. What is wrong with you do you have a problem with insulting people because that won't get you anywhere in this industry. Your just an a****** yourself and your showing everyone on here that you are. Good luck with your career  QFM
DougBPhoto wrote:
Arielle Laurito wrote:
Just because I don't tell you how much money I've made doesn't mean I don't make any. I don't let random people know how much I make, its it's kind of stupid.
What is wrong with you? do Do you have a problem with insulting people? because that That won't get you anywhere in this industry. Your You're just an a****** yourself and your you're showing everyone on here that you are. Good luck with your career (Corrected for grammar)
You're making quite the impression in this thread. It seems pretty clear you have NO IDEA how much you need to learn. I hate to say it, but you should probably check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Good luck with YOUR career. Ooooh Doug, you that comma between "make" and "it's" should be a semicolon.
I now return you to your regular thread. You may continue to insult New Jersey.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45198
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Hot mess? ![https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VPPkZS9xPx4/S_4DOq7N5lI/AAAAAAAAADA/bTjlGYHiN_U/s1600/widget_cHzI9h__5hZldAAykLEnlK.jpg]() Oh ... in answer to the question; You ask to be paid.
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
"How do you get more paid work?"
Do porn, it's the only way. Modeling won't happen unless you know a guy that knows a guy that knows someone famous. Even then you're pushing it. Might as well give up now while you're young and stick with a good ol' real job
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
I know I am the minority on MM but I have never seen a model and thought "I would not hire her, unless she was nude". If a model is worth hiring it's not because of wardrobe choices.
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5214
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
Patrick Walberg wrote:
Hot mess?
![https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VPPkZS9xPx4/S_4DOq7N5lI/AAAAAAAAADA/bTjlGYHiN_U/s1600/widget_cHzI9h__5hZldAAykLEnlK.jpg]()
Oh ... in answer to the question; You ask to be paid. Aren't legs wonderful things!
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
AJScalzitti wrote:
I know I am the minority on MM but I have never seen a model and thought "I would not hire her, unless she was nude". If a model is worth hiring it's not because of wardrobe choices. I think most people would agree with you on that point; if you're ugly, you're ugly, and taking off more clothes isn't going to fix that.
The point, though, is paying for something in demand, as any model will work for free clothed, but sometimes pay is necessary if you want a quality nude model.
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21526
Chicago, Illinois, US
A attractive woman can always make money clothes or not. Every week I see ads on Craigslist for fashion or glamor models. I've spoken to some of the guys who place them. These are paying non nude jobs with safe decent dudes and models don't follow through. Many never return emails or calls to talk about the work. Some just flake on the day of the shoot. If you want to get more or any paid work show up. Heck that's half the battle. I have a casting for a job. A MM model has been writing me since 2010. Every time I do a casting she writes but never comes out. After three times I stopped responding to her at all. You may not make enough to live on from modeling but you can make a car note or cell phone bill or enough for new clothes, etc.
I just saw a post where a model complained about a lack of people who wanted to work with her. A member pointed out she had ignored his offer and he's a good photographer. She begged off and said she couldn't tell 'good' photographers from 'bad' ones but what does that have too do with a reply. If you want a better portfolio or to make money. Network, follow up and shoot. Its that simple.
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2351
Bristol, England, United Kingdom
I don't think I'm giving opinion or straying into full blown critique of the OP, by pointing out a fact that the port contains only 3 full length shots and many shots are obscured or from an unusual angle. Sometimes it's hard to book what you can't definitely see.
OP is gorgeous though and very creative, maybe it's just a marketing issue.
Photographer
BrooklynHill
Posts: 4790
Newport Beach, California, US
-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
Quoted for irony, from a 5'2", 120lb, 28 year old 'alternative' model
Given the shelf-life of even in-demand models compared to that of decent photographers, an attitude like this will be enough to get plenty of photographers issuing the classic response to entitled diva-model stupidity: "NEXT!"
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com This sums it all up! Best response
|
I just spit my coffee out reading this 
I know sucks but there's some truth in it. I'm still working on my port, I get no replies back all the time. Unless they want to see me naked lol. But w strong and make your own decisions. Remember If your looking for a future in commercial or other or are worried what family may think then be careful what you put out there unless you don't mind it being seen. 
