Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 293
West Paterson, New Jersey, US
Many go nuts over what 'expensive' lighting equipment to use in order to get the right shot. Not many people are curious of controlling their camera. I always suggest people to read their cameras manual & start off with what they can afford being that Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)
I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works?
Photographer
m_s_photo
Posts: 605
Port Moody, British Columbia, Canada
Oowee. I can hardly wait for the responses to this one. Good luck.
Photographer
Brian Ziff
Posts: 4105
Los Angeles, California, US
Camera operation isn't very difficult, but most people start off by shooting natural light anyway and more or less figuring out how shutter speed and aperture work, and what's the appropriate ISO (or film speed, if you work with film).
Once you get serious though, there's nothing more important than light and lighting. Better lighting systems give you more control, more consistency, and open a world of possibilities in terms of modifiers and light shapers.
Light is light, but the way you control it is everything in photography. And in any case--there's no manual you can read on having a good eye.
Photographer
Laubenheimer
Posts: 9317
New York, New York, US
iso 400....check
shutter speed 1/125....check
aperture f3.2...check
ok....now on to the lighting.
and guess what? my all important camera manual didn't even suggest those settings!
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 836
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US
Here is one of my favorite photographers. http://500px.com/89205537525 Only natural light. Know your camera, know light, know post. "Cheap" photoshoot every time. Only camera, sometimes reflector.
Photographer
Leighsphotos
Posts: 3070
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:
iso 400....check
shutter speed 1/125....check
aperture f3.2...check
ok....now on to the lighting.
and guess what? my all important camera manual didn't even suggest those settings! This
+ I hate the "Strobist" movement. It started out as a way to light images inexpensively and became light everything until no shadows exist.
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 293
West Paterson, New Jersey, US
Brian Ziff wrote:
Camera operation isn't very difficult, but most people start off by shooting natural light anyway and more or less figuring out how shutter speed and aperture work, and what's the appropriate ISO (or film speed, if you work with film).
Once you get serious though, there's nothing more important than light and lighting. Better lighting systems give you more control, more consistency, and open a world of possibilities in terms of modifiers and light shapers.
Light is light, but the way you control it is everything in photography. And in any case--there's no manual you can read on having a good eye. No, camera operation isn't difficult. If you read the manual and know..
But What If a Volunteer job calls for a group shot of 20. The person using the camera may need to know what appropriate settings are needed for a well focused & lit shot. Playing the guessing game Will turn out looking like it was shot with a flip phone.
L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:
iso 400....check
shutter speed 1/125....check
aperture f3.2...check
ok....now on to the lighting.
and guess what? my all important camera manual didn't even suggest those settings! How can you decide all those settings when basic lenses don't even reach 3.2 & What if the person is doing a sports shoot at 200mm are you still going to shoot at 125?
Photographer
Leighsphotos
Posts: 3070
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Green Grape Photography wrote:
Brian Ziff wrote:
Camera operation isn't very difficult, but most people start off by shooting natural light anyway and more or less figuring out how shutter speed and aperture work, and what's the appropriate ISO (or film speed, if you work with film).
Once you get serious though, there's nothing more important than light and lighting. Better lighting systems give you more control, more consistency, and open a world of possibilities in terms of modifiers and light shapers.
Light is light, but the way you control it is everything in photography. And in any case--there's no manual you can read on having a good eye. No, camera operation isn't difficult. If you read the manual and know..
But What If a Volunteer job calls for a group shot of 20. The person using the camera may need to know what appropriate settings are needed for a well focused & lit shot. Playing the guessing game Will turn out looking like it was shot with a flip phone.
How can you decide all those settings when basic lenses don't even reach 3.2 & What if the person is doing a sports shoot at 200mm are you still going to shoot at 125? If someone is shooting sports I hardly think fancy lighting is their main concern.
Also, even basic lenses start around 3.5. ISO 400 is a basic starting point for the past 50 years at least when shooting indoors without artificial lighting.
Did you even read the OP?
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Green Grape Photography wrote:
I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works? Let me ask you this. Who is going to to be further along the curve to attaining excellent photography?
Person A - who has mastered light but has never picked up a dslr? Or, Person B - who has read their manual, "mastered" the technical functions of the camera, but hasn't a clue about using light?
I'm putting my money on Person A.
It doesn't take very long to learn how to use a camera and its functions. Mastering light is far more elusive, something many spend years trying to achieve, and what truly sets apart the great photographers from the "meh."
Photographer
Jay Leavitt
Posts: 6745
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Leighthenubian wrote:
This
+ I hate the "Strobist" movement. It started out as a way to light images inexpensively and became light everything until no shadows exist. I have never seen the "obliterate shadows" mentality of strobists, and I have been following them since David Hobby started the hype... I myself own 16 speedlites, am a devout "lighting on a budget" enthusiast, and typically LOVE shadows.
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 4288
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica
Green Grape Photography wrote:
Many go nuts over what 'expensive' lighting equipment to use... [snip] ... and many don't.
It's a wash.
Photographer
Solas
Posts: 10390
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
-JAY- wrote:
I myself own 16 speedlites, am a devout "lighting on a budget" enthusiast. lighting on a budget...a budget??...with several thousand in speedlites.. 
???
...riiiiiiiight....
Photographer
Laubenheimer
Posts: 9317
New York, New York, US
Green Grape Photography wrote:
No, camera operation isn't difficult. If you read the manual and know..
But What If a Volunteer job calls for a group shot of 20. The person using the camera may need to know what appropriate settings are needed for a well focused & lit shot. Playing the guessing game Will turn out looking like it was shot with a flip phone.
How can you decide all those settings when basic lenses don't even reach 3.2 & What if the person is doing a sports shoot at 200mm are you still going to shoot at 125? well, the camera isn't going to decide them for me. and the person is me. i don't shoot sports. i make portraits at 85mm.
my camera doesn't have live view. i don't tether. i don't use a tripod. i don't use a zoom lens. i use only 4GB memory cards.
maybe i'm just a simple person. i find a pair of shoes i like and i'm off for a walk.
Ellen, June 29, 2013
![https://archives.marklaubenheimer.com/image.php?image=/models/2013/06-29-2013_Ellen/ellen2web08.jpg&quality=70&width=600]()
Photographer
Mark C Smith
Posts: 1073
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
You need light to make a photograph. At least an interesting one. Why shouldn't people worry about mastering it?
I'd say it's a lot easier to master a DSLR than it is to master the art of controlling light.
Photographer
Jay Leavitt
Posts: 6745
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Karl Johnston wrote:
lighting on a budget...a budget??...with several thousand in speedlites..
???
...riiiiiiiight.... Here's the one that stretches the budget: Yn560II (9 of those) the rest are more reasonably priced... I know #ballin #highroller, right?
Photographer
L Bass
Posts: 957
Nacogdoches, Texas, US
Tulack wrote:
Here is one of my favorite photographers.
http://500px.com/89205537525
Only natural light. Know your camera, know light, know post. "Cheap" photoshoot every time. Only camera, sometimes reflector. You might want to tweak that to say... 'and a TON of post.' If you know your camera and light... you don't have to know squat about post, unless you're going after totally unrealistic results.
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8095
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
-JAY- wrote:
Here's the one that stretches the budget: Yn560II (9 of those) the rest are more reasonably priced... I know #ballin #highroller, right? Jay is right on the money and really was a big help in influencing me to buy some speedlights. I have a complete set of Einsteins and a wide array of modifiers but I often have a lot more fun with my 6-pack of Yongnuos that are a lot easier to take with me on remote shoots.
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 3436
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan
Isn't it highly relative as well as a subject to individual learning preference?
Photographer
Brian Ziff
Posts: 4105
Los Angeles, California, US
Green Grape Photography wrote:
No, camera operation isn't difficult. If you read the manual and know..
But What If a Volunteer job calls for a group shot of 20. The person using the camera may need to know what appropriate settings are needed for a well focused & lit shot. Playing the guessing game Will turn out looking like it was shot with a flip phone. I'm not sure what a volunteer job is, or what it matters how many people are in the photo, but obviously you have to know what the basic adjustable parameters of your camera and lens do. Like I said, though, it's really not complicated. Maybe I'm just a savant, but I've never had to read the manual to understand aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
I feel it should go without saying that if you're a photographer, you should know how your camera works.
Photographer
Jay Leavitt
Posts: 6745
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Shot By Adam wrote:
Jay is right on the money and really was a big help in influencing me to buy some speedlights. I have a complete set of Einsteins and a wide array of modifiers but I often have a lot more fun with my 6-pack of Yongnuos that are a lot easier to take with me on remote shoots. My pleasure.
I can fit 8 flashes (alongside my 2 bodies, and 4 lenses) in my backpack, with a couple different modifiers attached (softboxes, umbrellaboxes, 86" plm, etc strapped to the backpack) with a heavy duty stand in each hand and hike anywhere, shoot anything, in reasonable comfort.
Photographer
Jay Leavitt
Posts: 6745
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Green Grape Photography wrote:
I always suggest people to read their cameras manual & start off with what they can afford being that Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)
I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works? Have you SEEN the D600 manual?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … pc7k#t=05s
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 293
West Paterson, New Jersey, US
Brian Ziff wrote:
I feel it should go without saying that if you're a photographer, you should know how your camera works. That is was trying to say. know how your camera works first
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 8463
Imperial, California, US
It's all about the light, the camera is simply the tool you must learn to use to capture the light.
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 293
West Paterson, New Jersey, US
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3378
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Green Grape Photography wrote:
That is was trying to say. know how your camera works first Do you think that people that worry about the lighting equipment don't know how their camera works?
Photographer
Chris Chronos
Posts: 353
Benidorm, Valencia, Spain
Photography means Drawing with light. Light is definitely the most important part (IMO). Without light hitting the right side/ at the right places/ etc, even the best composed photos can look dull. If I had the budget my lighting setup would be a lot more impressive than a couple of flashes I can always dream. But of course people should learn how to use their cameras to the highest point, no point buying a Harley if you cant ride a moped! Then again, never met someone who thinks about lighting when they don't know about their camera....
Photographer
Eleven 11 Photography
Posts: 409
Auburn, Alabama, US
Why do we care so much? If you like Profoto or Einstien, or sunlight or if you shoot by with matches what difference does it make? Shoot with what you want to shoot with, that's the end all be all of it.
Photographer
marknmanna
Posts: 305
Golden City, Missouri, US
I'm not opposed to using any tools available to get the images I want. Whether it be speedlights. studio strobes, window light, reflector, software.
It's all there to use for a reason. When a photographer says " I only shoot natural light" or" I don't post-process because I get it "right" in camera", I wonder why anyone would self-impose restraints on themselves. Do what works for you.
Photographer
jb nyc
Posts: 5
New York, New York, US
L Bass wrote:
You might want to tweak that to say... 'and a TON of post.' If you know your camera and light... you don't have to know squat about post, unless you're going after totally unrealistic results. There is enough post work in there to kill 10 men.
Photographer
Chris Chronos
Posts: 353
Benidorm, Valencia, Spain
L Bass wrote:
You might want to tweak that to say... 'and a TON of post.' If you know your camera and light... you don't have to know squat about post, unless you're going after totally unrealistic results. jb nyc wrote:
There is enough post work in there to kill 10 men. Yet it still has its own style and there are definitely a lot of people who love that stuff.
Photographer
Eleven 11 Photography
Posts: 409
Auburn, Alabama, US
marknmanna wrote:
I'm not opposed to using any tools available to get the images I want. Whether it be speedlights. studio strobes, window light, reflector, software.
It's all there to use for a reason. When a photographer says " I only shoot natural light" or" I don't post-process because I get it "right" in camera", I wonder why anyone would self-impose restraints on themselves. Do what works for you. I don't mind so much if someone says I don't do X or Y. That's cool. I myself don't do much post because I don't like it.
It's when people say "You are so wrong for doing X or Y" that it gets all feisty.
Photographer
KellyKooperPhotography
Posts: 54
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Brian Ziff wrote:
Camera operation isn't very difficult, but most people start off by shooting natural light anyway and more or less figuring out how shutter speed and aperture work, and what's the appropriate ISO (or film speed, if you work with film).
Once you get serious though, there's nothing more important than light and lighting. Better lighting systems give you more control, more consistency, and open a world of possibilities in terms of modifiers and light shapers.
Light is light, but the way you control it is everything in photography. And in any case--there's no manual you can read on having a good eye. Spot on. Lighting is absolutely essential and once you have control over it, you have the power to create suspense, emotion and drama. It's vital. I'm always learning, I don't think I've mastered it yet - but I'm all too aware of its importance.
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 293
West Paterson, New Jersey, US
Green Grape Photography wrote:
Many go nuts over what 'expensive' lighting equipment to use in order to get the right shot. Not many people are curious of controlling their camera. I always suggest people to read their cameras manual & start off with what they can afford being that Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)
I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works? Read slowly. I never said light was NOT important. I said master the camera settings First.
Shutter, Aperture, ISO,
Speed light
White balance
Rules like inverse square, maybe
instead of buying your first slr then 5 min later buying a $500 strobe set. (if they want to whatever. just saying)
what did i say that was so Off?
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3378
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Green Grape Photography wrote:
Read slowly. I never said light was NOT important. I said master the camera settings First.
Shutter, Aperture, ISO,
Speed light
White balance
Rules like inverse square, maybe
instead of buying your first slr then 5 min later buying a $500 strobe set. (if they want to whatever. just saying)
what did i say that was so Off? Who are these people you are talking about?
Photographer
Laubenheimer
Posts: 9317
New York, New York, US
Green Grape Photography wrote:
Many go nuts over what 'expensive' lighting equipment to use in order to get the right shot. Not many people are curious of controlling their camera. I always suggest people to read their cameras manual & start off with what they can afford being that Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)
I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works? Green Grape Photography wrote:
Read slowly. I never said light was NOT important. I said master the camera settings First.
Shutter, Aperture, ISO,
Speed light
White balance
Rules like inverse square, maybe
instead of buying your first slr then 5 min later buying a $500 strobe set. (if they want to whatever. just saying)
what did i say that was so Off? you wrote, "Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)"
that's like saying sushi is sushi, unless taste is also an interest.
jiro dreams of sushi. mark dreams of light.
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 293
West Paterson, New Jersey, US
L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:
you wrote, "Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)"
that's like saying sushi is sushi, unless taste is also an interest.
jiro dreams of sushi. mark dreams of light. Actually i said "start off with what they can afford" meaning non name brand lighting equipment instead of the High Quality
Photographer
Azimuth Arts
Posts: 1490
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Leighthenubian wrote:
If someone is shooting sports I hardly think fancy lighting is their main concern.
Also, even basic lenses start around 3.5. ISO 400 is a basic starting point for the past 50 years at least when shooting indoors without artificial lighting.
Did you even read the OP? I mostly agree with you but he is the OP 
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3378
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Green Grape Photography wrote:
Actually i said "start off with what they can afford" meaning non name brand lighting equipment instead of the High Quality Who is starting off with equipment they can't afford?
I think these people are a figment ...
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I can always dream. 
