Forums > Photography Talk > How not to hire a Flake?

Photographer

Paul Grofton

Posts: 36

Bradenton, Florida, US

I am looking for tips when going through a modeling profile and questions asked and answered on what would be giveaways for models that have good chance on flaking on you.

Don't worry models: I have the counterpart questions on working with a photographer.

Jul 12 13 08:57 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22933

Salem, Oregon, US

if they say something like "I LOVE YOUR WORK smilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmile xxxooo ToxicGirl" i'd suggest running away from the stalker. lol.

Jul 12 13 09:33 am Link

Photographer

Image Works Photography

Posts: 2890

Orlando, Florida, US

+1 I am in love with your work. I can't wait to work with you. Then its a no show. Lies lies lies!

Jul 12 13 09:39 am Link

Photographer

Mark Laubenheimer

Posts: 8865

Seattle, Washington, US

Paul Grofton wrote:
I am looking for tips when going through a modeling profile and questions asked and answered on what would be giveaways for models that have good chance on flaking on you.

Don't worry models: I have the counterpart questions on working with a photographer.

find people that truly love your work. let them know they are important. communicate/confirm the day before the shoot.

Jul 12 13 10:05 am Link

Photographer

Paul Grofton

Posts: 36

Bradenton, Florida, US

L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:

find people that truly love your work. let them know they are important. communicate/confirm the day before the shoot.

Done that and she still was a no show.

Jul 12 13 10:10 am Link

Photographer

Mark Laubenheimer

Posts: 8865

Seattle, Washington, US

Paul Grofton wrote:

Done that and she still was a no show.

it happens....don't sweat it....just move on.

Jul 12 13 10:12 am Link

Photographer

Marin Photography NYC

Posts: 7317

New York, New York, US

There are no "fool proof" ways to read strangers. Many of these young ladies don't have lots of work experience, scared, just a hobby for them, or just don't like your work. Some have a hard time saying no because they don't want you angry at them or asking them why. I am not saying they are all good reasons at all. I would not waste time trying to understand women my age let alone women half my age....Just play the numbers. Someone will bite eventually.

Jul 12 13 10:20 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22933

Salem, Oregon, US

also i think that there is often someone in the background (boyfriend, husband, relative, friends) influencing their behavior. which may explain some (but not all. lol) of the irrational things that happen. think about wormtongue in LOTR. i really think that there are a lot of wormtongues in the world.

some of them do shift work and if they get called in at the restaurant may not have a choice but to take the money. but i certainly appreciate the ones who are willing to let me know when that happens vs. no-showing.

Marin Photography NYC wrote:
I would not waste time trying to understand women my age let alone women half my age....Just play the numbers. Someone will bite eventually.

Jul 12 13 10:24 am Link

Photographer

New Art Photo

Posts: 701

Los Angeles, California, US

GreatMomentsPhotography wrote:
+1 I am in love with your work. I can't wait to work with you. Then its a no show. Lies lies lies!

+ I have absolutely no idea why this is true, but it's happened to me again and again.sad(( 
Then again.....Whatever the  (TFP) girl says, there's about a 70% chance you
you'll never hear from her again.
  I think it's just a built-in, probably unconscious, socio-biological  behavior pattern, where young women will jerk around any man who tries to pin them down ( to a schedule.)  MM causes PTSD in photographers.

Jul 12 13 10:34 am Link

Photographer

Beyond Boudoir

Posts: 324

Portland, Oregon, US

Generally speaking, the younger a model is, the more likely they are to flake.  It's just one factor, but an important one.

Jul 12 13 10:35 am Link

Photographer

Risen Phoenix Photo

Posts: 1579

Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

Hmmmmmm.

I guess if they never credit or mention the photographer from the images in their port.  Also if they are bad at communicating and have to be reminded to answer the e-mails

Good chance she will flake

Jul 12 13 10:51 am Link

Artist/Painter

Grin Without a Cat

Posts: 440

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

The better you pay them, the less likely they are to flake...although to be honest even this is not a guarantee...

Jul 12 13 10:56 am Link

Photographer

Rebel Photo

Posts: 11446

Florence, South Carolina, US

One of the criteria I look for is the quality of the photos, how pretty the models are and who shot them.

Girls that watched ATM or are into "Promotions"= Kelloggs infected with Y. Pestis
Boyfriend with a camera? Flake
Self shot ...50/50

Competent Photographer.. good candidate

Drop dead beautiful models (9-10 rating scale) rarely flake. Average looking girls...count on it or at a minimum, making outrageous demands. At least that's the way it works around here.

Jul 12 13 11:06 am Link

Photographer

New Art Photo

Posts: 701

Los Angeles, California, US

My Golden Rule:  No shoot unless I speak to them on the phone before the shoot.

I don't have girls flake on the day of the shoot ( because they drop out before then. )
  If they return email in a consistent way, will give you their number and speak on the phone ( after you've developed some connection via email.)

You probably shouldn't have many drop out the day of the shoot.
Every week I  contact at least two girls who respond that they'd love to do a shoot-- and then I basically never hear from them again.

Jul 12 13 11:20 am Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 6425

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Grin Without a Cat wrote:
The better you pay them, the less likely they are to flake...although to be honest even this is not a guarantee...

In the last five years, I've had way more models flake for paid shoots than for test shoots. I'd say the ratio is probably 5-1 or higher. Paying a model most certainly does not mean they will arrive on time, if at all. However, hiring one from an agency means they have some accountability to that agency if they flake so they have a higher, vested interest in showing up on time if you book through an agency.

Jul 12 13 11:20 am Link

Photographer

Toto Photo

Posts: 2968

Belmont, California, US

It's more art than science. For me, I just get a feeling, when I do I hire a backup.

If it were strictly empirical, I'd say checking references is the best thing one can do to minimize  hiring flakes.

Jul 12 13 11:25 am Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 10362

Brooklyn, New York, US

BullS#$t!!!
There is no magic formula that lets you detect flakes

Jul 12 13 11:41 am Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 6425

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
BullS#$t!!!
There is no magic formula that lets you detect flakes

Then why is it that some people can do hundreds of shoots and have less than a 1% flake rate and others can do 20 shoots and have 10 flakes. I can assure you, it's not coincidence.

Jul 12 13 01:14 pm Link

Photographer

Mark Laubenheimer

Posts: 8865

Seattle, Washington, US

Shot By Adam wrote:
Then why is it that some people can do hundreds of shoots and have less than a 1% flake rate and others can do 20 shoots and have 10 flakes. I can assure you, it's not coincidence.

brooklyn is talking about flake detection, not flake prevention.

Jul 12 13 01:28 pm Link