The Grand Artist wrote:
This is how I understand it.


So it appears that the plan for Adobe is that if you create something with CC and want to tinker with it later you have to do so in CC. I don't use CC so I would assume that you can save files in older formats so they can be used with older versions of CS stuff but that is just me guessing. Your finished files will be accessible by any program that can read those files.

I have CC on one machine and CS5 on another. I can create and save files in CC as jpg, Tiff, png and my RAW files. I can open all these file types just fine on my other machine with CS5. There may be some tools in CC that are not in CS5 but I haven't found any.

GPS Studio Services wrote:
The price is a write-off, so for me, it is just part of the cost of doing business (That and I wouldn't have support for D600, I don't believe, if I still had CS6).

Just FYI, I'm using CS6 and have full support for my D600 and D610.

Red Sky Photography wrote:
I have CC on one machine and CS5 on another. I can create and save files in CC as jpg, Tiff, png and my RAW files. I can open all these file types just fine on my other machine with CS5. There may be some tools in CC that are not in CS5 but I haven't found any.

there are a couple

field blur
camera shake reduction

but i agree its not a huge improvement even over CS5.

Schlake wrote:
Only if you are really bad at math.  The monthly cost of PhotoShop in the cloud is more than the regular cost of the retail upgrade.

That's not entirely true.

If you had bought Photoshop CS in October 2003 and upgraded with each successive release (paying full retail) you would have spent $1694.  Over the last 130 months, that's an average of $13.03 per month. 

And that's just Photoshop.  If you had also paid full retail ($299) for Lightroom in 2007 and $75 for each update, the average monthly cost would go up to $17.64.

Of course we used to have the option to skip updates or find other ways to reduce costs, but comparing apples to apples, the current deal of PS CC + LR for $10/month is significantly better than the old retail prices.

DougBPhoto wrote:

WHOA, I had NOT heard THAT !!!

Seriously?

I still have PS6 and it is working fine after adding PSCC. I think it is a good deal. I have been getting PS with the student discount which was about $250 but you could not update, so when a new version came out I had to buy the new version. The $9.99 per month works out well for me. I get the latest updates all the time without spending any extra money.
I understand why Adobe has done this, so many unlicenced copies of PS were being used, that they were losing a lot of money. This way they are getting less money, instead of the $600-&700 for a full copy of Photoshop, but they are getting it from everyone. I think that it is a good deal for all.

DougBPhoto wrote:

WHOA, I had NOT heard THAT !!!

Seriously?

Seriously!  I have not heard that as well.  But I am not under the cloud anyway and no time soon!

GPS Studio Services wrote:

Michael Fryd wrote:
For some people "leasing" makes a lot of sense.  If you are someone who always buys the latest version at the retail upgrade price, then leasing can make a lot of sense.

It is interesting ... I think if you are just a Photoshop user, you are right.  If you use more, it goes the other way.  I have owned the Master Collection for quite some time.  To be honest, I couldn't run my business without the Master Collection.  I love having the software current all the time.  The price is a write-off, so for me, it is just part of the cost of doing business (That and I wouldn't have support for D600, I don't believe, if I still had CS6).

And that can make sense.  For the marketing agency I work for, who use a lot of Adobe apps, it's a savings.  For a single inDesign or Photoshop user for example it's not and I am sure they can't help but feel like they are getting worked over like a mob shakedown

Michael Fryd wrote:

Do a web search.  A number of people have reported that they tried Creative Cloud, decided to go back to CS6, but could not.  Apparently, the Creative Cloud installation removed CS6, and they could not reinstall CS6, as Adobe wouldn't activate it.

I could be wrong, but I have seen a number of similar reports.

I always said give the cloud a year or two and little things like this will start to dribble out... Amazing!

Vampman Studios wrote:
It's a promo offer. $10 a month for probably 6 months, then probably $30 a month from that point on. Adobe does that every 4 months to boost Cloud sales.

So far, not true. I've been paying $10/month now for this for well over a year. They haven't tried to raise the price on me once and I'm quite happy with the service.

Michael Fryd wrote:
Typically, Adobe requires you to relinquish any current Photoshop/Lightroom perpetual license that you own.

Untrue. I have the one year contract about to come due for renewal at a higher then the introductory price and still have all my store bought Licenses in tact and listed under "My Account" on Adobe. I can renew for a year next month at $20 more per month or I can go back to using my old versions i actually own.

R Michael Walker wrote:

Untrue. I have the one year contract about to come due for renewal at a higher then the introductory price and still have all my store bought Licenses in tact and listed under "My Account" on Adobe. I can renew for a year next month at $20 more per month or I can go back to using my old versions i actually own.

Many people agree with you that this is how it is supposed to work.

Please let us know if things go smoothly should you decide not to renew.

Did I misunderstand your post, or is Adobe trying to raise your monthly rate 300% form $10/month to $30/month?

Michael Fryd wrote:

Do a web search.  A number of people have reported that they tried Creative Cloud, decided to go back to CS6, but could not.  Apparently, the Creative Cloud installation removed CS6, and they could not reinstall CS6, as Adobe wouldn't activate it.

I could be wrong, but I have seen a number of similar reports.

I have both CS6 and Creative Cloud on my computer. Both work fine, although as more new features are added to CC, there's no reason to use CS6. I suppose it serves as a "plan B" if Adobe decides to jack up the prices for CC as the doomsayers love to predict.

Grady Richardson wrote:
I have both CS6 and Creative Cloud on my computer. Both work fine, although as more new features are added to CC, there's no reason to use CS6. I suppose it serves as a "plan B" if Adobe decides to jack up the prices for CC as the doomsayers love to predict.

As a "plan B" it would be helpful if:

- You actually can continue to use it after terminating CC.

- It can open, and work with, files created by the CC version.

Perhaps these are true, but not everyone is so sure.  Adobe has a strong financial incentive to make CC files incompatible with the older software versions.

Michael Fryd wrote:
As a "plan B" it would be helpful if:

- You actually can continue to use it after terminating CC.

- It can open, and work with, files created by the CC version.

Perhaps these are true, but not everyone is so sure.  Adobe has a strong financial incentive to make CC files incompatible with the older software versions.

What file types do you think will no longer work with earlier versions of Photoshop if they have been created using CC?

Red Sky Photography wrote:
What file types do you think will no longer work with earlier versions of Photoshop if they have been created using CC?

I believe that Adobe will make changes to the .psd file format that allow them to claim compatibility with earlier versions of Photoshop, but that are not practical to use with earlier versions of photoshop.  When opening the file in an earlier version perhaps only a flattened version of the file will be available.

I expect that Adobe will claim this is a necessary change in order to make some new feature work.  Perhaps the addition of vector graphic layers?

Such a change would help lock customers into the rental-only CC version, and make it impractical for customers to revert to a previous "owned" version.

I expect this because there is a tremendous financial incentive for Adobe to lock customers in, and Adobe is a business, not a non-profit charitable organization.

Adobe has shown that it is willing to sacrifice short term profits in order to lock in customers.  When Adobe purchased Macromedia, they could have sold off Freehand (the major competitor to Illustrator).  The chose to forgo profits from selling off Freehand, in order to reduce competition in the marketplace.

Michael Fryd wrote:
I believe that Adobe will make changes to the .psd file format that allow them to claim compatibility with earlier versions of Photoshop, but that are not practical to use with earlier versions of photoshop.  When opening the file in an earlier version perhaps only a flattened version of the file will be available.

I expect that Adobe will claim this is a necessary change in order to make some new feature work.  Perhaps the addition of vector graphic layers?

Such a change would help lock customers into the rental-only CC version, and make it impractical for customers to revert to a previous "owned" version.

I expect this because there is a tremendous financial incentive for Adobe to lock customers in, and Adobe is a business, not a non-profit charitable organization.

Adobe has shown that it is willing to sacrifice short term profits in order to lock in customers.  When Adobe purchased Macromedia, they could have sold off Freehand (the major competitor to Illustrator).  The chose to forgo profits from selling off Freehand, in order to reduce competition in the marketplace.

Okay, I have no way to refute your speculation. We will have to disagree about whether or not CC is the way to go.

Red Sky Photography wrote:

Okay, I have no way to refute your speculation. We will have to disagree about whether or not CC is the way to go.

My position is that CC is the way to go for some people, and not for others.

Do you disagree?  Is your position that CC is right for everybody or perhaps right for nobody?


I have suggested that I expect over time Adobe will make it very difficult to leave CC.  For some people this will not be an issue.  For others it will be a major sticking point.   Perhaps we disagree on our predictions regarding Adobe's future plans for the product?  I based my predictions on Adobe's past behavior and the fact that they are a business, not a charity.  Do you disagree with any of my assumptions or reasoning?

Michael Fryd wrote:
My position is that CC is the way to go for some people, and not for others.

Do you disagree?  Is your position that CC is right for everybody or perhaps right for nobody?


I have suggested that I expect over time Adobe will make it very difficult to leave CC.  For some people this will not be an issue.  For others it will be a major sticking point.   Perhaps we disagree on our predictions regarding Adobe's future plans for the product?  I based my predictions on Adobe's past behavior and the fact that they are a business, not a charity.  Do you disagree with any of my assumptions or reasoning?

Of course CC isn't the best choice for some people, but it is the choice that Adobe is offering. Don't like it, keep your CS6 or find something else that fits your needs.

Yes, Adobe is a business, but businesses often change the way they do business. Because one decision worked in the past doesn't mean it will work or even be tried in the future. You may be correct in your assumptions or just as easily be incorrect. Only time will tell.

Red Sky Photography wrote:
Of course CC isn't the best choice for some people, but it is the choice that Adobe is offering. Don't like it, keep your CS6 or find something else that fits your needs.

Understanding the nature of the alternatives can be very helpful when making a decision.

Adobe does not publish a roadmap on their future pricing plans.  Even when Adobe does publish future plans, they don't always go in that direction ("We have no plans to discontinue Freehand").

A good understanding of where Adobe is headed, and the commitments one makes by choosing CC, is needed if one wants to make an informed decision.

Red Sky Photography wrote:
Yes, Adobe is a business, but businesses often change the way they do business. Because one decision worked in the past doesn't mean it will work or even be tried in the future. You may be correct in your assumptions or just as easily be incorrect. Only time will tell.

You are correct.  If the rental model is not successful, Adobe may very well change the way they do business and go back to the traditional sales model.